Why does Abrams keeps giving the middle finger to Trek fans?
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While it's a matter of taste, in most respects, you're going to have to accept that you're in a very small minority with that view, Irishman. By all measures, Enterprise (and to an only slightly lesser extent Voyager) was a complete and utter failure in the Star Trek franchise.
Well, the only Trek series I have no interest in watching again (and will never buy) is Voyager. DS9 started VERY badly, but eventually changed direction and became (with the exception of the obnoxious "comedy Ferengi" bits) some of the best Trek ever... because it respected what came before but still took real risks and gave us real, and permanent, CONSEQUENCES (something that Trek had typically avoided previously). And Enterprise started badly but did become better about halfway through the run. Basically, it was like TNG and DS9 in that the first two seasons were worth dropping.
Basically, we have two good seasons of Star Trek (1 and 2), three good seasons of TNG (3, 4, and 5), five good seasons of DS9 (3, 4, 5, 6 and 7), no good seasons of Voyager, and two good seasons of Enterprise (3 and 4), by my measure.
I think Abrams is starting to alienate too many people
This whole "i never liked star trek" thing was relevent at first, but now all it is is a cheap ploy to say to the mainstream media that he isnt a trekkie and that it would be cool to watch this new movie. However, this may have been the plan all along to draw a bigger crowd, cause lets face it, no matter what he says, everyone who posts on this board will go and see this movie just to get a trek fix. no matter how much we end up resenting the guy, we'll go and see his movie and he knows this. what he's desperate to do is not get type cast as a Star Trek person
This whole "i never liked star trek" thing was relevent at first, but now all it is is a cheap ploy to say to the mainstream media that he isnt a trekkie and that it would be cool to watch this new movie. However, this may have been the plan all along to draw a bigger crowd, cause lets face it, no matter what he says, everyone who posts on this board will go and see this movie just to get a trek fix. no matter how much we end up resenting the guy, we'll go and see his movie and he knows this. what he's desperate to do is not get type cast as a Star Trek person
You can't prove it by response on the Internet, which has been largely positive and often enthusiastic.
I'm not going to run to the theatre to see it. And, unless the reviews of the movie once it's out are spectacularly good, I likely never will see this movie. Otherwise, I might get it on disk.
You see, I don't need to have the Gods of Hollywood give me my Trek fix. I'm quite capable of making my own.
I enjoyed a great deal of DS9; although I felt that the later seasons became more of WWII in space and relied on old war movie cliches. Also, the Dominion War kept getting delayed and delayed and then quickly wrapped up in the last two-hours of the series. It should have ended mid-season or a season earlier and then the final season dealing with the fallout and Sisko's destiny as Emissary.
The less said about VOY, the better. That series gave up on its original premise three episodes into the first season and turned into TNG-lite.
But I'm with those who enjoyed ENT. It wasn't nearly that bad. Sure, it wasn't great or as Trek cliche breaking as I'd hoped it would be but I liked the characters. Archer wasn't great in the first two years, but in the last two, he was better and entertaining to watch. I enjoyed the relationship between him, T'Pol and Trip. Moreover, I liked Reed and Sato. Phlox was pure fun. As for Mayweather, he was just there unfortunately as a character. I wished that they had gone with their original premise of having Mayweather be older than Archer and a well-worn space boomer.
Looking back, ENT wasn't as bad as people think it was. It certainly wasn't the best Trek but it was an improvement after VOY.
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Stone_Cold_Sisko
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I have no problem with JJ not originally being a fan of Star Trek... but I do agree, it being a permanent part of his "stump speech" has gotten irritating, and hell I'm one of those "star trek ended after ds9" non-fans and even I'm a bit irked by it - it's clearly a thought out position that he repeats each time and that's somehow more unsettling.
Sort of like if Obama started out each campaign speech with "You know, I hate democrats, they're such @$$holes! I've never liked democrats!" who cares if its true, most democrats, you know the base who's votes you rely on just to be competative would be very bemused, even those who understand the concept of "appealing to the middle". There's a way to do it that doesn't take a crap on your base. Same principle basically.
Sort of like if Obama started out each campaign speech with "You know, I hate democrats, they're such @$$holes! I've never liked democrats!" who cares if its true, most democrats, you know the base who's votes you rely on just to be competative would be very bemused, even those who understand the concept of "appealing to the middle". There's a way to do it that doesn't take a crap on your base. Same principle basically.
The series was always borrowing the plots and premises of old movies. I did like some episodes - "Far Beyond The Stars" is my favorite, and I liked a lot of the Ferengi stories better than most DS9 fans appear to. They were often funny, Armin Shimerman is brilliant, and as he once observed Quark was the only regular on the series who was permitted the full range of human behavior and emotions.
These two quotes, taken in conjunction, go a long way to demonstrate how individual perception works.
Actually, we should probably throw my response into that, as well.
And I'm beginning to regret it.
Off topic.. and maybe TMI.. but I had two of them in college, and didn't really enjoy either. It's one of those things that sounds fun... "Sometimes having a thing is not as satisfying as wanting a thing. It is not logical, but it is often true."
Well, that was basically McCain's strategy, and... oh YEAH...
I do wonder if even casual interest will be dissuaded by Abrams "Star Trek sucks" mantra. Someone's going to start asking "Then why are you doing the movie, then?" and I'm not sure he's going to have a good answer for them.
And I'm beginning to regret it.
Off topic.. and maybe TMI.. but I had two of them in college, and didn't really enjoy either. It's one of those things that sounds fun... "Sometimes having a thing is not as satisfying as wanting a thing. It is not logical, but it is often true."
That was my thinking when I made the initial call.
You've convinced me that I was right all along!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
You know, I think people have really forgotten what Abrams has actually said about Trek and its weaknesses and are now crediting him with saying he dislikes or hates the whole thing.
I think it is also largely misunderstood how frequently he talks and mentions this so called "hate" for Trek and his fans.
Reading this thread one gets the impression he spends 24/7 giving interviews and badmouthing Trek.
Oh you should doubt yourself.
Just because it didn't work for Vance doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you.
It works fine for a whole lot of people
I think it is also largely misunderstood how frequently he talks and mentions this so called "hate" for Trek and his fans.
Reading this thread one gets the impression he spends 24/7 giving interviews and badmouthing Trek.
And I'm beginning to regret it.
Off topic.. and maybe TMI.. but I had two of them in college, and didn't really enjoy either. It's one of those things that sounds fun... "Sometimes having a thing is not as satisfying as wanting a thing. It is not logical, but it is often true."
That was my thinking when I made the initial call.
You've convinced me that I was right all along!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
Oh you should doubt yourself.
Just because it didn't work for Vance doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you.
It works fine for a whole lot of people
You know, I think people have really forgotten what Abrams has actually said about Trek and its weaknesses and are now crediting him with saying he dislikes or hates the whole thing.
I think it is also largely misunderstood how frequently he talks and mentions this so called "hate" for Trek and his fans.
Reading this thread one gets the impression he spends 24/7 giving interviews and badmouthing Trek.
That was my thinking when I made the initial call.
You've convinced me that I was right all along!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
Oh you should doubt yourself.
Just because it didn't work for Vance doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you.
It works fine for a whole lot of people
Alright, fine!
You changed my mind again!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
You know, I think people have really forgotten what Abrams has actually said about Trek and its weaknesses and are now crediting him with saying he dislikes or hates the whole thing.
I think it is also largely misunderstood how frequently he talks and mentions this so called "hate" for Trek and his fans.
Reading this thread one gets the impression he spends 24/7 giving interviews and badmouthing Trek.
That was my thinking when I made the initial call.
You've convinced me that I was right all along!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
Oh you should doubt yourself.
Just because it didn't work for Vance doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you.
It works fine for a whole lot of people
Alright, fine!
You changed my mind again!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
But then again maybe you did the right thing. Who knows what could have happened if you had done it...
You know, I think people have really forgotten what Abrams has actually said about Trek and its weaknesses and are now crediting him with saying he dislikes or hates the whole thing.
I think it is also largely misunderstood how frequently he talks and mentions this so called "hate" for Trek and his fans.
Reading this thread one gets the impression he spends 24/7 giving interviews and badmouthing Trek.
Oh you should doubt yourself.
Just because it didn't work for Vance doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you.
It works fine for a whole lot of people
Alright, fine!
You changed my mind again!
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER DOUBT MYSELF AGAIN!
But then again maybe you did the right thing. Who knows what could have happened if you had done it...
AS GOD IS MY WITNESS, I WILL NEVER REMEMBER WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT AGAIN!
No, but I think that since he does it in nearly every major interview, it is a talking point, and sadly does reinforce the whole "Star Trek for people who hate Star Trek" meme that's been going around. (Sadly, even these forums have a huge taste of it, even if it's not the actual intent behind how the movie's defended, it's certainly how it comes across.)
Case in point: "Yeah, well so the space drill is stupid, Trek had stupid stuff too!" And so on...
*laughs* Well, to be fair, I'm very much a romantic at heart, and that kind of 'play' doesn't fit with who I really am. I'm just the type who looks for a lot more 'in the bedroom' than just a couple of hours of fun at a time.
I wonder if it's so much part of his stump speech, or whether it's more one of those things that he keeps being quoted as talking about for the simple reason that he keeps getting asked the same questions again and again. Shatner talking about being/not being in the movie is only one example of such -- sometimes it seems like he never shuts up about it -- but there are plenty of other instances easily found without even going outside of Trek. From reading Trek news items, you could get the impression that George Takei only ever talks about what a jerk he thinks Shatner is, but I doubt that's really the case.
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