NCAA Football 2008 Discussion - It All Starts Here.

[DanCPA]

(I would like to point out that OSU's three losses came to UT, Tech, and OU and very likely is better than most of the 2 loss schools out there. They beat the #2 team in the nation and lost to UT by 4)

Word is that OSU will be playing Oregon in the Holiday bowl. They're going to pound that poor unsuspecting Pac 10 team into the dust, I suspect.

Yeah... The sad part is that this game is in San Diego so Oregon should have the fan support... Unless Boone buys us all plane tickets out there (which I wouldn't put past him!)

OSU beat a #2, and their 3 losses were to #1, #3, #3... And their loss to #1 was only by 4 points! Oregon is going to get slaughtered so badly, they might have to put them in the Big 10

 

[Plomeek Broth]

We (UGA) open at Oklahoma State next year. We beat Okla St pretty easy 35-14 in 2007, but in 2009 I think we will be the underdogs. Not looking forward to it at this moment. Okla St looked so much better this year than in 2007.

 

[Neroon]

Word is that OSU will be playing Oregon in the Holiday bowl. They're going to pound that poor unsuspecting Pac 10 team into the dust, I suspect.

Which will be a VERY entertaining game, if the Oregon team that shows up is the same one that smoked Oregon St.

Oregon is going to get slaughtered so badly, they might have to put them in the Big 10

Might want to check that again. More likely the PAC-10 is simply where they'd stay, seeing as they are ranked below the Big 10 in the first place.

 

[DanCPA]

We (UGA) open at Oklahoma State next year. We beat Okla St pretty easy 35-14 in 2007, but in 2009 I think we will be the underdogs. Not looking forward to it at this moment. Okla St looked so much better this year than in 2007.

I think that based on this years performance Okie State will be ranked top 10 going into the 2009 College Football Season.
They don't have too many departing players and I have a feeling that with the renovations to the stadium and the growing national prestige of Okie State that they will be able to get a good set of recruits for next year.

 

[DanCPA]

More likely the PAC-10 is simply where they'd stay, seeing as they are ranked below the Big 10 in the first place.

I was making a reference to how well the big10 does in bowl games

It seems as if every year they send a sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered by the University of Spoiled Children and the complete collapse of Ohio State the last two years has not done much to solidify them as a football powerhouse

Here's hoping that Penn State puts up a better fight against USC this year.

 

[Cicero]

(I would like to point out that OSU's three losses came to UT, Tech, and OU and very likely is better than most of the 2 loss schools out there. They beat the #2 team in the nation and lost to UT by 4)

Word is that OSU will be playing Oregon in the Holiday bowl. They're going to pound that poor unsuspecting Pac 10 team into the dust, I suspect.

Yeah... The sad part is that this game is in San Diego so Oregon should have the fan support... Unless Boone buys us all plane tickets out there (which I wouldn't put past him!)

OSU beat a #2, and their 3 losses were to #1, #3, #3... And their loss to #1 was only by 4 points! Oregon is going to get slaughtered so badly, they might have to put them in the Big 10

I wouldn't be surprised if Oregon won, though I wouldn't predict it. Their losses were to USC, which I'm convinced is the best team in the country (suffering from a bout of overconfidence early in one game against a pretty poor team), undefeated (#10) Boise State, and Cal, a team that seems to have unusual success against the Ducks (unusual for both schools) on an annual basis.

The Pac-10's tie-breaking system is also broken. In the event of a two-loss three-way tie, the team that lost to the lowest-standing conference team is selected as the Rose Bowl participant. (Hence, if USC loses to UCLA this weekend, OSU will go to the Rose Bowl despite being the obvious least of the three teams, as demonstrated last Saturday.)

 

[DanCPA]

Their losses were to USC, which I'm convinced is the best team in the country (suffering from a bout of overconfidence early in one game against a pretty poor team),

USC is good... and they look great most weeks, but look at who they play! An Ohio State team that lacked it's star player
Notre Dame?
The rest of the Pac-10?

If Okie State got to play Notre Dame, they'd likely ring them up for 40 or 50 themselves

USC does look dominating, but they should try to put some teams with real meat on their schedule LATE in the season. (I'll grant that they tried to play a real team this year with Ohio State this year, but OhioSt was without it's star and figuring out how to play)

undefeated (#10) Boise State,

same thing with USC... They don't play quality opponents, so the record is nice... But they should put more "meat" on their schedule... Maybe Boise v USC late in the season for next year

and Cal, a team that seems to have unusual success against the Ducks (unusual for both schools) on an annual basis.

Another respectable program
But I don't think you can compare USC, Boise State and Cal to OU, UT and TexTech. And Okie State did knock out the then #2 team in the nation earlier in the season.

The Pac-10's tie-breaking system is also broken. In the event of a two-loss three-way tie, the team that lost to the lowest-standing conference team is selected as the Rose Bowl participant. (Hence, if USC loses to UCLA this weekend, OSU will go to the Rose Bowl despite being the obvious least of the three teams, as demonstrated last Saturday.)

That's nothing, the final tie break for the Big XII is a draw... That's right, a draw
They should at least make it rock-paper-scissors!

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I'd agree that the Pac 10 is above the Big 10 at this point.

 

[DanCPA]

I'd agree that the Pac 10 is above the Big 10 at this point.

I think that the only team the Big 10 has that's actually worthy of being in the top 25 is Penn State

Ohio State didn't really beat anybody... And granted they suffered injury problems and quarterback confusion early on... But they still didn't beat anybody of true mention

And the other two ranked teams are barely ranked, and frankly I think the only reason they are there is because they are major conference teams. Neither of those schools has any quality victories!

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I wish there was a way that this year's Okie State could play USC in a bowl. I'd be really interested to see the outcome. Okie State is so good, but it's a notch below OU/Tech/Texas. We could really evaluate conference strengths that way. It won't happen, but I wish it could.

 

[DanCPA]

Okie State vs USC? Wow. I think that home field would decide that one.

It would also be an interesting way to compare USC to the rest of the nation.
We saw OSU go mano a mano with UT and OU ('til the very end when OU poured it on and got a little luck!)
If SC could dismantle Okie State from the opening kick-off, it would give me a new found respect for USC...
But I think that it would be a very close game and likely come down to a few plays that make the difference
If I had to predict a final score for that game, it would be USC 38 Okie State 35

 

[Mallory]

I can't make any predictions about Oregon's chances in a bowl game. They're too unpredictable this year, you never know which team is going to show up.

 

[Commander Vaughn]

I'd say Texas got jilted...

Apparently the Red River Rivalry doesn't mean anything.

It means something ... but not as much as the pussified out-of-conference schedule Texas played. Florida Atlantic? Texas-El Paso? Rice? Arkansas? Gimme a break.

While two of OU's non-conference opponents (Chattanooga and Washington) were admittedly palookas, the Sooners threw down with Big East champion Cincinnati and 10-2 Texas Christian, as well, handing both half their losses this year—in convincing fashion.

That outweighs Texas' somewhat sketchy resume.

Think perhaps your hatred of Oklahoma is affecting your judgment, Commander Vaughn?

Nah, I've got no beef with Oklahoma. I think they're a damn good team, and have a lot of respect for the program.

It's just that whole system falls apart when we start validating some wins (Oklahoma over Cincy and TCU) and not others (Texas over Oklahoma). Had Texas and Oklahoma not played each other this year, I'd take Oklahoma over Texas based on strength of schedule. But they did play, and OU lost by two scores.

Did Oklahoma play two tough teams? Yup. But Oklahoma also lost to Texas on a neutral field. And that just can't be overlooked under any circumstances.

 

[DanCPA]

And that just can't be overlooked under any circumstances.

And it wasn't
But to dismiss Oklahoma simply because they lost to Texas creates the circle of dismissing Texas because they lost to Tech... and then Tech lost to Oklahoma
And we are discussing Big 12 Championship so you can't ignore it

You should look at what they did against similar opponents also

Against Okie State, at home UT managed to escape with a 4 point victory after a some what controversial non-call near the end of the game.
Against Okie State, at the Boone, OU won by 20 in a competitive, but decisive game.

Against Tech, in Norman, OU dismantled them
Against Tech, Texas lost. It was close, but they lost.

So, you don't dismiss the 45-35 win that Texas had, but you shouldn't eliminate Oklahoma from consideration because of that single loss when Texas had a loss themselves.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

What put Oklahoma over the top in the computers is beating Oklahoma State on the road. Road wins count for more, especially when the road teams are ranked.

 

[Commander Vaughn]

And that just can't be overlooked under any circumstances.

And it wasn't
But to dismiss Oklahoma simply because they lost to Texas creates the circle of dismissing Texas because they lost to Tech... and then Tech lost to Oklahoma
And we are discussing Big 12 Championship so you can't ignore it

You should look at what they did against similar opponents also

Against Okie State, at home UT managed to escape with a 4 point victory after a some what controversial non-call near the end of the game.
Against Okie State, at the Boone, OU won by 20 in a competitive, but decisive game.

Against Tech, in Norman, OU dismantled them
Against Tech, Texas lost. It was close, but they lost.

So, you don't dismiss the 45-35 win that Texas had, but you shouldn't eliminate Oklahoma from consideration because of that single loss when Texas had a loss themselves.

Oklahoma's loss was to Texas! In all other respects, the teams are equal. Thats what the BCS formula (and the teeny tiny point different tells us).

Therefore, Texas > Oklahoma.

It's quite simple. The SEC has the tie breaking system down pretty much perfectly. If the top two teams are within 5 spots of each other in the BCS rankings, then the head-to-head winner should get the nod. The Big 12 bungled this horribly.

 

[DanCPA]

In all other respects, the teams are equal.

But they're not... Look at the rest of the season
Who they played
Where they played
The point differential in the games!

 

[Neroon]

I'd agree that the Pac 10 is above the Big 10 at this point.

You might want to check out places like RealTimeRPI as well as CNNSI.com

Personally, I'd rank them:

Big 12 - no contest
ACC - more head-to-head wins over SEC, and more bowl eligible teams
SEC - down year for them but they have higher standards to begin with
Big 10 - virtual tie with the Mountain West. could go either way
Mountain West - see above
PAC 10 - Beyond USC..... who else?
Big East - .... very close to PAC-1o maybe better, with Cincinnati and Pitt.

 

[Commander Vaughn]

In all other respects, the teams are equal.

But they're not... Look at the rest of the season
Who they played
Where they played
The point differential in the games!

The teams are basically even. There is zero merit to either Texas or OU being even marginally better than the other based on the schedules only. Which is why the head-to-head is so important.

 

[Neroon]

That may well be, Vaughn.... but look at what Oklahoma did against opponents common with Texas. Now, of course offensive fireworks are the sexier thing to use in evaluation, but the Sooners did just plain look better against these last four teams. Texas didn't do badly but they weren't quite as impressive. I'm thinking that has also influenced people in a way that tends to cancel out that head-to-head.