Spoilers Destiny: Lost Souls by David Mack Review Thread
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
In addition to the answer above, we don't know what shape the Dominion is in 5 years from "now."
And the Jarada are... jerks. I can't see them helping out. They'd attack the Borg if they approached the Hives, but they're so... what was that term in the DS9R? Zeno-disdainful or something? I'm not convinced it'd matter to them who was being attacked, as long as nothing bothered them...
In addition to the answer above, we don't know what shape the Dominion is in 5 years from "now."
And the Jarada are... jerks. I can't see them helping out. They'd attack the Borg if they approached the Hives, but they're so... what was that term in the DS9R? Zeno-disdainful or something? I'm not convinced it'd matter to them who was being attacked, as long as nothing bothered them...
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
40% Casualties?
Holy Crap...that's gonna be a helluva mess to clean up.That's a logistical nightmare,running relief efforts with 40% less ships to work with.
I wonder what bad guy(s) in the next books take advantage of this...
It will be followed up on in future novels. To find out how, you'll just have to read 'em.
The draft I have on my hard drive that Dave sent me to look at (I don't actually have the book yet) has President Bacco saying that more than forty percent of Starfleet was destroyed.Speaking of the fleet being rebuilt, I don't remember Destiny quantifying exactly what the Starfleet toll was, with regard to ships and crew lost, though we did get to see a number of scenes where individual ships and crews made the ultimate sacrifice. What kind of scale are we talking about (compared to, say, Wolf 359 or The Dominion War), or was this intentionally left vague for a future book to address? Or did I just miss it?
40% Casualties?
Holy Crap...that's gonna be a helluva mess to clean up.That's a logistical nightmare,running relief efforts with 40% less ships to work with.
I wonder what bad guy(s) in the next books take advantage of this...
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Well that was a roler coaster ride. Thanks for the good read.
Well that was a roler coaster ride. Thanks for the good read.
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
I haven't finished yet, so it only 60% of Federation worlds survived or 60% of all Starfleet vessels survived?
I haven't finished yet, so it only 60% of Federation worlds survived or 60% of all Starfleet vessels survived?
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Starfleet suffered a loss of 40%. The most conservative estimate for the death toll is about 63 billion combined Federates, Klingons, and Romulans (Star Empire and Imperial State).
From page 420 of Lost Souls:
We know from Book I that all life on Ramatis was exterminated, as was all life on Deneva. Given Bacco's inclusion of them in the first list, I would presume that this means that all life was exterminated in Coridan, Risa, Regulus, and Korvat as well. Presumably, this means that the Coridanite, Risian, and Ramatian species are now critically endangered if not functionally extinct (in spite of their world's Federation membership). No clue whether or not surviving members of those species be repatriated into other Federation Member States or if they'll somehow retain their own Member State status if they resettle. (Will the Federation go from 155 Member States to 149?)
We know from page 416 of Book III that 77 million Klingons died on Qo'noS, so we can probably presume similar death rates for Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar -- probably roughly 60 to 80 million deaths. I would imagine the same to be true of Yridia, Nausicaa, and Barolia.
Did I miss anything? Did anyone ever compile a comprehensive list of Federation Member Worlds that were destroyed? Or of Federation species homeworlds that were destroyed (since we know that Deneva was a Member State but not any one species' homeworld)?
Starfleet suffered a loss of 40%. The most conservative estimate for the death toll is about 63 billion combined Federates, Klingons, and Romulans (Star Empire and Imperial State).
From page 420 of Lost Souls:
We know from Book I that all life on Ramatis was exterminated, as was all life on Deneva. Given Bacco's inclusion of them in the first list, I would presume that this means that all life was exterminated in Coridan, Risa, Regulus, and Korvat as well. Presumably, this means that the Coridanite, Risian, and Ramatian species are now critically endangered if not functionally extinct (in spite of their world's Federation membership). No clue whether or not surviving members of those species be repatriated into other Federation Member States or if they'll somehow retain their own Member State status if they resettle. (Will the Federation go from 155 Member States to 149?)
We know from page 416 of Book III that 77 million Klingons died on Qo'noS, so we can probably presume similar death rates for Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar -- probably roughly 60 to 80 million deaths. I would imagine the same to be true of Yridia, Nausicaa, and Barolia.
Did I miss anything? Did anyone ever compile a comprehensive list of Federation Member Worlds that were destroyed? Or of Federation species homeworlds that were destroyed (since we know that Deneva was a Member State but not any one species' homeworld)?
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Doesn't it get difficult to justify keeping the senior staff together on ships like the enterprise in a credible manner?
You'd have massive gaps in the organisational chain of command and I can't see how Picard would be able to hang onto people like La Forge.
Doesn't it get difficult to justify keeping the senior staff together on ships like the enterprise in a credible manner?
You'd have massive gaps in the organisational chain of command and I can't see how Picard would be able to hang onto people like La Forge.
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Well, considering that the only original TNG senior crew left over from the show and films are Picard, Worf, Beverly, and Geordi, I'm not sure how that's a pertinent critique anymore. There's Kadohata, there's Den, there's Choudhury, there's Elfiki, there's Chen.....
Well, considering that the only original TNG senior crew left over from the show and films are Picard, Worf, Beverly, and Geordi, I'm not sure how that's a pertinent critique anymore. There's Kadohata, there's Den, there's Choudhury, there's Elfiki, there's Chen.....
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Den is the new senior counselor.
Maybe, maybe not. Worf has the whole "rescued his wife rather than save a Cardassian defector" problem, and Geordi is an engineer, not a command officer.
Den is the new senior counselor.
Maybe, maybe not. Worf has the whole "rescued his wife rather than save a Cardassian defector" problem, and Geordi is an engineer, not a command officer.
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
I doubt it would matter - half the fleet is gone - in such a crisis situation I would guess it would be
Admiral: Congratulations Captain La Forge, you are now in charge of the SCE ship USS bag of spanners
La Forge: But I'm not a command officer!
Admiral: You are now, good luck.
(and Geordi's original training was command right? he was a red shirt?)
I doubt it would matter - half the fleet is gone - in such a crisis situation I would guess it would be
Admiral: Congratulations Captain La Forge, you are now in charge of the SCE ship USS bag of spanners
La Forge: But I'm not a command officer!
Admiral: You are now, good luck.
(and Geordi's original training was command right? he was a red shirt?)
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
I'm sure they can come up with some kind of in-universe reason, but we all know that they can't really afford to lose anymore of the originals that are left.
Worf has the black mark on his record, Laforge has stated that he is happy where he is... But you don't always get to choose your postings. I'd like to see this addressed in the future somehow. I imagine that for awhile there won't be enough ships around to even need new Captains. After they start to seriously rebuild Starfleet though it becomes a harder question to answer.
I'm sure they can come up with some kind of in-universe reason, but we all know that they can't really afford to lose anymore of the originals that are left.
Worf has the black mark on his record, Laforge has stated that he is happy where he is... But you don't always get to choose your postings. I'd like to see this addressed in the future somehow. I imagine that for awhile there won't be enough ships around to even need new Captains. After they start to seriously rebuild Starfleet though it becomes a harder question to answer.
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Oh I agree, I don't expect to see any of this happen just spit balling - but even without the ships - I would think that there are plenty of gaps in planet side postings.
Oh I agree, I don't expect to see any of this happen just spit balling - but even without the ships - I would think that there are plenty of gaps in planet side postings.
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
I've been away from the BBS for a while, but I just wanted to say to David that the Destiny trilogy was amazing! It was difficult to put any of the books down, and now that I'm finished, I might just start over again.
I loved all of the nods to other Trek lit series (Klag, Gomez, the Excalibur, ect). I know that we'll probably get a fuller account of Voyager's part in Destiny in Full Circle, but I would also love to see fuller accounts of The Excalibur, the da Vinci and the Gorkon's battles.
David, thanks for including Starfleet Academy's Pava so prominently. You had me scared a couple of times, you sure didn't give her an easy time, but am just glad to have had a favorite character included in such an epic story and survive, albiet in critical condition.
I am saddened at the losses of Owen Paris, Charivretha, Tuvok's son, and even T'Lana, but in an event such as this, it is only reasonable that some names that we know be among those lost. An event of this scope would effect everybody and have long-standing reprecussions. I can't wait to find out what they are!
I've been away from the BBS for a while, but I just wanted to say to David that the Destiny trilogy was amazing! It was difficult to put any of the books down, and now that I'm finished, I might just start over again.
I loved all of the nods to other Trek lit series (Klag, Gomez, the Excalibur, ect). I know that we'll probably get a fuller account of Voyager's part in Destiny in Full Circle, but I would also love to see fuller accounts of The Excalibur, the da Vinci and the Gorkon's battles.
David, thanks for including Starfleet Academy's Pava so prominently. You had me scared a couple of times, you sure didn't give her an easy time, but am just glad to have had a favorite character included in such an epic story and survive, albiet in critical condition.
I am saddened at the losses of Owen Paris, Charivretha, Tuvok's son, and even T'Lana, but in an event such as this, it is only reasonable that some names that we know be among those lost. An event of this scope would effect everybody and have long-standing reprecussions. I can't wait to find out what they are!
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
As for Worf, I tend to agree with the "Worf screwed the pooch" camp. If he goes past his current posting, it'll be planet or base side.
Well one possible future did end up with La Forge commanding the Challenger, so it's not much of a stretch for them to push him into a command.
As for Worf, I tend to agree with the "Worf screwed the pooch" camp. If he goes past his current posting, it'll be planet or base side.
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
Something just occurred to me:
Life for a Coridanite must suck. First, their world is caught in a civil war between a puppet government of the Vulcans and an Andorian-supported insurgency.
Then, it becomes the victim of a planetary disaster when the Romulans fly a shuttle at warp speeds into Coridan in 2155.
Then it doesn't get to become a Federation Member State until 2266, and almost causes a Federation civil war over it.
And how it's either severely damaged or actively sterilized by the Borg in 2381.
Man, that whole being on contact with other species and being a part of the United Federation of Planets thing just did not work out for those poor guys!
Something just occurred to me:
Life for a Coridanite must suck. First, their world is caught in a civil war between a puppet government of the Vulcans and an Andorian-supported insurgency.
Then, it becomes the victim of a planetary disaster when the Romulans fly a shuttle at warp speeds into Coridan in 2155.
Then it doesn't get to become a Federation Member State until 2266, and almost causes a Federation civil war over it.
And how it's either severely damaged or actively sterilized by the Borg in 2381.
Man, that whole being on contact with other species and being a part of the United Federation of Planets thing just did not work out for those poor guys!
Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade
To be fair to Worf, I do think that in light of the 40% loss of the fleet, his experience as ambassador to Quo'nos, and almost-certain glowing recommendations from Picard, Sisko, and Martok, the Admiralty would overlook that black mark.
To be fair to Worf, I do think that in light of the 40% loss of the fleet, his experience as ambassador to Quo'nos, and almost-certain glowing recommendations from Picard, Sisko, and Martok, the Admiralty would overlook that black mark.