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Why not just use the pilot design?

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Noone would, however, confuse the Discovery from 2001 with the NuBSG Galactica. It's not as though the designers of NuBSG felt beholden to that arrangement of parts and colors and dimensions.
That's the difference between a design and a design aesthetic. Of course no one is going to confuse one ship for the other - but if you have never seen 2001, and saw a shot in nuBSG with it moving along with the fleet, there would be nothing about it that made it look out of place - the aesthetic of modern movie sci-fi is firmly rooted in 2001 - which is to say, 1969. Weird, I could swear that was when a show called Star Trek was on the air ... ;).

The designers of the new ship have, however, obviously felt beholden to the arrangement of parts, colors and dimensions of the original Enterprise ... :vulcan:
 
Noone would, however, confuse the Discovery from 2001 with the NuBSG Galactica. It's not as though the designers of NuBSG felt beholden to that arrangement of parts and colors and dimensions.
That's the difference between a design and a design aesthetic. Of course no one is going to confuse one ship for the other - but if you have never seen 2001, and saw a shot in nuBSG with it moving along with the fleet, there would be nothing about it that made it look out of place - the aesthetic of modern movie sci-fi is firmly rooted in 2001 - which is to say, 1969. Weird, I could swear that was when a show called Star Trek was on the air ... ;).

The designers of the new ship have, however, obviously felt beholden to the arrangement of parts, colors and dimensions of the original Enterprise ... :vulcan:

To me they're taking what in their view - works - and updating the asthetic of it.

You know, even though I would have done something different, I do like their nacelles and the saucer. I think even the neck and secondary hull will grow on me. The visually jarring part is the way the attachment point of the neck to the secondary hull is moved back.

But, then I was reminded that such an attachment is not without precedent in MJ's concept art for the TOS Enterprise. It can be suggested that Church took this and was inspired by it, just like many of us who do Trek art like to go back to the MJ concept art. He just fleshed it out in a different way.
 
It is so sadly ironic...and very human...that people adopt rigid stances and become inflexible when discussing a television show that was all about exploring and embracing the unknown.

I refuse to judge the merits or flaws of any aspect of the movie until I've seen it. Probably more than once. Gut reactions and initial opinions? Sure, I have them. But if you're willing to praise or condemn the movie without ever having seen it? I think we should be better than that.

If the movie does go down in flames, and I haven't seen people (specifically, people not in this forum) this excited for a new Trek movie in a long time so I rather doubt it will, then the people who were behind it's creation will at least deserve credit for having _tried_ to take Trek in a new direction. Maybe it won't have been a _good_ new direction, but at least they'll have _tried_. I believe we can all agree the direction it was going in proved to ultimately be unsuccessful.
 
There are, quite simply, no rational arguments against the original design. I wish people would just admit it: this is nothing more than a matter of personal taste, not a cultural paradigm.

The original ship was designed for the 1960s small screen, plain and simple. It doesn't have the scale of a major ship especially for the big screen. Did you ever notice they didn't use the original model in *any* of the movies? Don't you think there was a big reason for that?

It sounds like the same claims you are making about others for why they KNOW the original model, even with a few "updates," wouldn't work could in turn apply to yourself.

You should explain to us why the original Enterprise model, in it's near purest form, would work on screen if you are passionate about it.
 

That is so beutiful. It pains me that we are being denied this work of art, and being given that piece of shit instead.


Aside from being a smoother design, less hard lines... it looks almost exactly like that.

Well, not exactly, but I do hope Mr. Koerner gets at least a honorable mention :D
 
Have you seen the numbers for 'Nemesis'?
Yeah, and I have to say that the hype for this movie reminds me a lot of the hype for NEM. The writer was supposed to be a huge Trek fan who knew "canon" like the back of his hand, the movie was supposed to be action-packed, the captain had to fight a worthy adversary ala TWOK, it was going to be the best thing ever, "As good as Star Wars" as one of the trailers described it. I'm afraid I'm not enthusiastic about NEM or this current movie. But really that isn't as much of an issue as basically everything else I've brought up as far as the movie being a reboot while trying to pretend that it isn't.
 
Not that much change? Entire ships changed, not just by addition, but even down to shapes as well. Rather than a flying triangle or a Tholian vessel with wings, you'd get an Eaves-esque freighter or such, completely drastic changes.
They changed ships from not being seen, or being specks of light, or being obvious re-uses of previous models that don't make sense to something that makes more sense yet fits the design ethic of the series. Nothing they did looked out of place. You seem to have a very all or nothing attitude, and you seem to be assuming that I share it. I don't, I agree with changes if they are within reason, even if I would've gone a different direction myself.

The stories are the same, the morals are the same, the lessons are the same, the acting is the same. Isn't the success of a show focused and based on the success of the actual people you see?
As I've said before, you can have an awesome story, but if your visuals suck, so will your show, because it's taking place in a visual medium, and if your story sucks, it won't matter how flashy your visuals look, because there is no story at its foundation.

-Friendship One: More buttons of a more contemporary design rather than jelly-bean candies (which are what some of the buttons really were made of on the TOS set), layered environmental suits that looked tough and durable as opposed to the shower-curtain environmental suits of TOS
-the Phoenix: touch-screen interface, moving graphics, (for that matter) visible graphics, CD rather than wooden insert disks, TNG-era warp stretch & flash complete with streaking stars, seat-belts
Different eras are going to have different designs for pretty much everything. Both the examples you cite were designed to look like they were much closer to modern day.

And would that really get rid of the Trek you've loved for so long? Does that invalidate all the hours of produced television and 10 films?
It wouldn't get rid of it, but it would invalidate it, and it would put an end to it as far as adding anything new to it.

I highly doubt that, especially since Trek also has parallel universe stories. That's the wonderful thing about Trek: You bring up one thing, and the franchise has probably brought up something before hand for just such an occasion.
Parallel universe stories have always been weak, IMO, because more often than not, there is no effect on the regular continuity of the show. Reset buttons, in other words, but that's another rant. Sufficed to say, I'd rather not do parallel universe stories at all.

I just find it very odd that a legend like King Arthur can and has been reshaped so many times but Trek isn't allowed to. The King Arthur legend, in all of its hundreds of incarnations, helped shape an entire nation, and later an entire Empire that had nearly conquered most of the known world, and yet Star Trek, which hasn't conquered a state let alone an empire, can't change the shape of one ship. King Arthur is very much a period piece, sometimes with dragons and sometimes without, sometimes with pieces of tech that are anachronistic and not, sometimes contemporized or not, often with tales of magic that don't fit the legends of the time period.
You're talking about a story that's based on another, older story from another part of the world. And as I've said before, previous mistakes do not excuse making those same mistakes again - just because other stories are constantly "rebooted" for a lack of a better term, does not mean Star Trek has to be. And to be frank, nothing sucks more than a story that's been "contemporized".
 
^Yes. West Side Story (see Romeo & Juliet) certainly sucked more than anything else. Far, far more than Nemesis.

For that matter, the various reimaginings of any Shakespeare play always suck more than anything else. Just ask Mel Gibson, Kenneth Brannagh, Orson Welles...

Why anyone would contemporize anything certainly does boggle the mind. Why would you want your works to be more accessible to an audience that isn't the same as the original target audience?

In the spirit of avoiding the suck that is contemporization, I think the new movie should be filmed exclusively in a color palette matching that available to the owners of a typical 60's television set.
 
I love the old Enterprise, I really do. But when I see it redone in cgi, I expect Buzz Lightyear to jump out of the thing. It looks like Pixar doing a bit of 60s kitsch, which it is in a sense. New day, new dawn, new movie, new Enterprise. I fully expect yet another model to be designed if there is, in fact, a sequel.
 
^Yes. West Side Story (see Romeo & Juliet) certainly sucked more than anything else. Far, far more than Nemesis.

For that matter, the various reimaginings of any Shakespeare play always suck more than anything else. Just ask Mel Gibson, Kenneth Brannagh, Orson Welles...

Why anyone would contemporize anything certainly does boggle the mind. Why would you want your works to be more accessible to an audience that isn't the same as the original target audience?

In the spirit of avoiding the suck that is contemporization, I think the new movie should be filmed exclusively in a color palette matching that available to the owners of a typical 60's television set.
Yes, because it apparently has to be all changed or nothing changed... :rolleyes:
 
If you can come up with a level of change that would simultaneously invalidate the numerous complaints of the existing fans and not alienate potential new fans, I'd be happy to hear about it.

One might think that's what Abrams et al. are trying to do...please existing fans (as many as they reasonably can, in any case) while making the movie appealling to new fans as well...
 
If you can come up with a level of change that would simultaneously invalidate the numerous complaints of the existing fans and not alienate potential new fans, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Done:

EnterpriseTOS.JPG



If the "potential new fans" don't like it. That's their problem. If they decide to not go see a movie because of the way a special effect ship is designed that's their problem. We're better off without them.

This isn't Star Wars.
 
If you can come up with a level of change that would simultaneously invalidate the numerous complaints of the existing fans and not alienate potential new fans, I'd be happy to hear about it.
Vektor's design is one good alternative, I know another one by another artist (who I won't name lest I unintentionally embarrass him) that is fairly close to the way I would have done it, but basically it comes down to adding detail to the existing design and updating the various effects to make it fit with what's been done basically from TNG onwards.

One might think that's what Abrams et al. are trying to do...please existing fans (as many as they reasonably can, in any case) while making the movie appealling to new fans as well...
I don't think Abrams has ever been overly concerned with pleasing old fans, just based on the statements he's made. If he was, he certainly went about it the wrong way and failed epically.
 
If the "potential new fans" don't like it. That's their problem. If they decide to not go see a movie because of the way a special effect ship is designed that's their problem. We're better off without them.
You do know how ironic that sounds, don't you? :lol:
 
If the "potential new fans" don't like it. That's their problem. If they decide to not go see a movie because of the way a special effect ship is designed that's their problem. We're better off without them.
You do know how ironic that sounds, don't you? :lol:

Did I ever say I was not going to see this movie?

Nope.

Infact, I've said just the opposite.
You know, excuse me, but I didn't read every single one of your posts. And even if I did, I certainly have more important things on my mind than remembering all of them. :lol: It's just the whole impression that you're making on me. Like this is such a big issue to you. I'm really sorry if I interpreted you wrong. :)

EDIT: Trekker, I just skimmed through all your posts in this thread. Where exactly do you say you're going to see the movie? Because I can't find it. I'm not supposed to know all of your posts, right?
 
If you can come up with a level of change that would simultaneously invalidate the numerous complaints of the existing fans and not alienate potential new fans, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Done:

(Image Snipped)


If the "potential new fans" don't like it. That's their problem. If they decide to not go see a movie because of the way a special effect ship is designed that's their problem. We're better off without them.

This isn't Star Wars.

"If they decide to not go see a movie because of the way a special effect ship is designed that's their problem."

The sword cuts both ways. I see no reason why long-time fans should be particularly valued over new fans. Especially if the new fans appreciate the changes to the franchise while the old ones...react much the way certain individuals on this board are doing.

If it sounds like I'm implicitly targeting any specific individuals here, that's not intended and I apologize.
 
If you can come up with a level of change that would simultaneously invalidate the numerous complaints of the existing fans and not alienate potential new fans, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Done:

EnterpriseTOS.JPG



If the "potential new fans" don't like it. That's their problem. If they decide to not go see a movie because of the way a special effect ship is designed that's their problem. We're better off without them.

This isn't Star Wars.

The nacelle caps are all wrong!

She's a beauty. A forty years old beauty. And she shows it.
 
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