space Dock vs. Dry dock

[trevanian]

drydock - used for refitting and building starships back when the future actually had some science in it.

spacedock - one giant leap backward for science and the biggest step toward this built-on-earth nonsense (basically spacedock looks like a blimp hangar in space, about as earthbound a design as I can imagine, and a total disservice to the notion of science fiction, utter SW trash. And probably the basis for the big weird station thing in the new movie's trailer, which I'm sure will seem uberkewl to most of the folks who drool over the mushroom.

 

[Hyperspace05]

As others have stated... The word Drydock has a very specific meaning - To take something out of its element. In naval terms, a drydock can drain itself of water (or lift itself out of water) to allow repair to areas usually under water. This is only done for the most serious of repair and maintenance.

So in space, the drydock would be a volume that could be closed off and filled with air if needed. A giant airlock. A spacedock would be open to space. So a ST3 space station could presumable qualify as a drydock since it is enclosed. Any open docks/stations would not.

(We can redefine the words all we want I suppose, but why not stick with their established usage in modern day english?)

Now there is nothing inherent that would make a space (vacuum/microgravity) construction or repair any less efficient for a large spacecraft. If fact it might be more efficient. So I would say that level of repair/construction of a spacecraft is not related to whether it occurs in a drydock or spacedock.

 

[trevanian]

As others have stated... The word Drydock has a very specific meaning - To take something out of its element. In naval terms, a drydock can drain itself of water (or lift itself out of water) to allow repair to areas usually under water. This is only done for the most serious of repair and maintenance.

So in space, the drydock would be a volume that could be closed off and filled with air if needed. A giant airlock. A spacedock would be open to space. So a ST3 space station could presumable qualify as a drydock since it is enclosed. Any open docks/stations would not.

(We can redefine the words all we want I suppose, but why not stick with their established usage in modern day english?)

So when a SF film from the same year as TMP, say, ALIEN, specifically references 'we are going to have to drydock to make repairs,' they are referring to being planetside as the non-natural out of its element environment?

I don't see the filled with air bit with that spacedock thing either. Yeah, there are beams of light, but they are there for scale and photography (like the hazy flare when voyager eclipses a star at the end of its credits), not because the thing has an atmosphere in there.

 

[JuanBolio]

What it SHOULD be is this:

Drydock: Pressurized enclosure for major upgrades and repairs. Air is added so technicians don't have to work in a vacuum. A modern drydock involves a ship being taken out of the water - a space drydock should involve a starship being taken out of the vacuum of space.

Spacedock: Just somewhere to dock, trasfer personell, supplies, refuel, etc. Ship is fully exposed to the vacuum of space.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, ask yourself what the difference is between a dock and a drydock on Earth.

On a dock a ship simply pulls up to it, parks, mours and sits there allowing personell/passengers/cargo to leave/board the ship as needed.

In a drydock a ship is parked in an area for an extended period of time, taken out of the water (hence "dry") and serviced.

Now, granted, in the "sea of space" Star Trek's "dry dock" isn't very "dry." But it's different than spacedock. In "dry dock" the ship is being serviced by the wrap-around structure. In "spacedock" the ship is simply parked at its destination at a place where personell and cargo can be transfered on and off the ship.

 

[BillJ]

How do we know that the Enterprise wasn't moved from a more complete facility prior to the film? For finishing touches and to free up the more complete facility for the next refit.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I don't see the filled with air bit with that spacedock thing either. Yeah, there are beams of light, but they are there for scale and photography (like the hazy flare when voyager eclipses a star at the end of its credits), not because the thing has an atmosphere in there.

But what physical mechanism aside from (apparently kilobar pressure) atmospheric drag could have immobilized those spacedock shuttles after they lost power in ST:TVH?

TGT

 

[Timo]

A passive safety system? I mean, surely the Flight Safety Division's budget for safety belts must have been shunted somewhere?

That slowing down isn't really consistent with air resistance anyway, unless the air has been imported from planet Molasses III. More probably, it is what happens when a futuristic anti-inertia drive suddenly fails and stops cheating nature.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GodThingFormerly]

That slowing down isn't really consistent with air resistance anyway, unless the air has been imported from planet Molasses III.

Hence my reference to apparent kilobar (~1000 atm) ambient pressure in spacedock's hangar bay.

More probably, it is what happens when a futuristic anti-inertia drive suddenly fails and stops cheating nature.

It would be a monstrously inefficient propulsion system that needs to expend energy to retain a constant velocity in a supposed microgravity vacuum environment.

TGT

 

[UssGlenn]

More probably, it is what happens when a futuristic anti-inertia drive suddenly fails and stops cheating nature.

It would be a monstrously inefficient propulsion system that needs to expend energy to retain a constant velocity in a supposed microgravity vacuum environment.

TGT

It makes sense if inertia canceling is only used for the benefit of acceleration, and is gradually turned off, slowly allowing the engines time to compensate, once cruising speed is reached. That's the best of both worlds.

 

[Timo]

But if the antinertia effect is gradually ramped down to zero after acceleration is complete, then the eventual kinetic energy and momentum is "real", and a power failure won't bring the ship to a grinding halt.

However, why ramp down to zero? The ship expends energy constantly anyway, on most flight modes. If such expenditure allows it to reach relativistic velocities with the thrust of a toy rocket and the propellant budget of two and a half gallon, it's surely worth the expenses. And the inherent automatic breaking system is a nice bonus, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UssGlenn]

After I posted I realized I should have finished my thought. Inertia dampening would only get turned off completely in a long range flight, it would be used in short shuttle flights around spacedock, in fact it would probably be required as a safety feature in the the event of a power failure exactly as we saw.

 

[Timo]

Good ideas.

One might also speculate that starships would be more mindful of maneuverability and less about economy, and thus wouldn't ramp down the antinertia magic even when it made economical sense. That'd be a typical thing for a military to do - and current militaries only yield to economics because they have to. A "post-scarcity" Starfleet of the 24th century (like GR fantasized) might ditch economical thinking just for the joy of finally being able to.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

Space-dock is a more of a centralized hub in space where multiple ships can dock, conduct repairs, resupply, refit ...
These bases can also be used for starship construction.

Dry-docks: smaller in size, capable of holding one large ship at a time for refits, repairs, resupplies, etc ...
They can also be used for starship construction.

In essence, both have the same capabilities with the space-dock being a large hub, a space city and a very large defense facility.

If you want to create a shipyard fast in a specific area, then create a whole bunch of dry-docks with larger facilities not being high priority.

 

[JoeZhang]

How do we know that the Enterprise wasn't moved from a more complete facility prior to the film? For finishing touches and to free up the more complete facility for the next refit.

Indeed, more than likely it was landed on earth, rebuilt, then flew off back into space.

 

[Starlock]

I don't see the filled with air bit with that spacedock thing either. Yeah, there are beams of light, but they are there for scale and photography (like the hazy flare when voyager eclipses a star at the end of its credits), not because the thing has an atmosphere in there.

But what physical mechanism aside from (apparently kilobar pressure) atmospheric drag could have immobilized those spacedock shuttles after they lost power in ST:TVH?

TGT

Here's a thought: Since these shuttles are often inside a structure like the Spaceshroom, they may have some type of emergency "airbrakes" that are triggered if there is a loss of power - to keep from denting the walls!

Plain old-fashioned bottled gas that is vented through the thruster ports to bring the shuttle to an abrupt halt. All you might do is push a panic button or release a deadman switch - or perhaps some switch that is automatically triggered when a circuit fails.