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Sex - The Most Important Invention Ever...

Admiral Buzzkill

Fleet Admiral
Admiral
(Hey, mods, I'm going somewhere with this. Really.)

It appears that sexual reproduction is about a billion years old, give or take. Most forms of life on Earth reproduce sexually, with sex being defined as the production of offspring through the mixing and recombination of traits from more than one parent.

The major advantage of sexual reproduction over fission, for instance, is the spread of advantageous traits possessed initially by one or a few organisms throughout a population.

(If you "don't believe in evolution" you really can just skip this whole thread. Thanks for reading this far.)

Often fans will say that "Star Trek has to evolve" in order to survive. Having said that, they then argue about the bookkeeping details - usually, over what are the core "strengths" or what's the "essence" of Trek or "what Trek needs to get back to" or "preserve."

Fine, but that's got nothing to do with the initial premise of that discussion - evolution.

There are several mechanisms behind evolution. Mutation is an essential but unpredictable and occasional one. Sexual reproduction is the engine that's proved crucial to successful and efficient evolution as we understand it.

Sex is the recombination of elements from more than one parent to produce something new that at best has the strongest characteristics of both parents.

Evolution is not about a single organism pushing out the boundaries from the inside. It's not about getting back to "what worked" for the single organism at an earlier stage of life.

Fans fret about Trek "turning into" some other familiar franchise ("Star Wars" seems to be the most common and anxiety-inducing example invoked) because of permitting elements from those other franchises, films or stories into Trek.

That's what a lot of fans seem to be currently afraid of in regards to the new "Star Trek" movie.

Well, the possibility that this movie will turn "Star Trek" into something that it hasn't been before as a result of bringing in new story and stylistic elements from other successful films and stories is the real hope of the movie, IMAO.

"Star Trek" won't turn into "Star Wars" or "Top Gun" or any other existing film/franchise/story. At best, it will "turn into" something new and vital with characteristics of all its progenitors.


Unfortunately, "keeping Trek pure" means weakening it and not letting evolution occur except through spontaneous mutation. If "Star Trek" is a closed system which must reproduce itself primarily by looking only or mainly to its genetic/memetic past and privileging that over all outside influences, it weakens and will - hell, should - die out.

"Star Trek" can only flourish if the creators are eager to continually bring new elements from other successful story forms - as well as the occasional, rare true mutation of internal innovation - into Trek and allow the combination to become a new form of "Star Trek" - really distinct and with distinctive new strengths that Trek hasn't previously possessed.

"Star Trek" doesn't have to turn into something else, of course. In addition to myriad robust and healthy species now extant, we're aware of many more forms that have existed at one time or another on this planet and no longer do.

We know they were here because we find them in the form of fossils.
 
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BTW, I love dinosaurs.

I'm a dinosaur fan.

I love books about them. I love going down to the Smithsonian and looking at the skeletons and drawings and models and other depictions of dinosaurs which many professional, smart, dedicated fans of dinosaurs have spent countless hours studying and assembling in various combinations back into evocations of what they believe dinosaurs were really like.

I understand that professional dinosaur fans engage in some pretty lively controversies and disagreements about what dinosaurs were really like.

As far as I know, none of these debates has yet produced a single live dinosaur.

I love to look at dinosaurs, and they're certainly not going anywhere.
 
BTW, I love dinosaurs.

I'm a dinosaur fan.

I love books about them. I love going down to the Smithsonian and looking at the skeletons and drawings and models and other depictions of dinosaurs which many professional, smart, dedicated fans of dinosaurs have spent countless hours studying and assembling in various combinations back into evocations of what they believe dinosaurs were really like.

I understand that professional dinosaur fans engage in some pretty lively controversies and disagreements about what dinosaurs were really like.

As far as I know, none of these debates has yet produced a single live dinosaur.

I love to look at dinosaurs, and they're certainly not going anywhere.

Mhmm... whatever are you trying to tell us with this? ;););)
 
I agree completely.

Does this mean Trek fans have a better chance of getting laid now?
 
I remember all this same stuff being said when Enterprise debuted as well (from many of the same people). It's a nice cozy position to be in, all changes are positive because change itself is held to be always positive and necessary.

The new Enterprise is great because it's different. The new bridge is greate because it's different. The new cast is great because they're different. The trailer is great because it's a different direction. Darwin said so!
 
"Star Trek" can only flourish if the creators are eager to continually bring new elements from other successful story forms - as well as the occasional, rare true mutation of internal innovation - into Trek and allow the combination to become a new form of "Star Trek" - really distinct and with distinctive new strengths that Trek hasn't previously possessed.

Dead on the money. The sort of evolution that Bad Robot is trying to bring about could be positive in ways we can't conceive of now, in the same way that Doctor Who changed from a show about adventures in time and space to a show about adventures in time and space and romance and families and crying and fat monsters attacking housing projects. This process was jarring to fans, but the property became popular-and even respected-to a degree it never had been before.
 
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Sex was invented? I thought it was hard-wired into us from the beginning.
 
If something evolves it comes after what came before.

But Star Trek 2009 is set before Star Trek 1966

So there's a lot of devolution going on there :D
 
BTW, I love dinosaurs.

I'm a dinosaur fan.

I love books about them. I love going down to the Smithsonian and looking at the skeletons and drawings and models and other depictions of dinosaurs which many professional, smart, dedicated fans of dinosaurs have spent countless hours studying and assembling in various combinations back into evocations of what they believe dinosaurs were really like.

I understand that professional dinosaur fans engage in some pretty lively controversies and disagreements about what dinosaurs were really like.

As far as I know, none of these debates has yet produced a single live dinosaur.

I love to look at dinosaurs, and they're certainly not going anywhere.
Barney is my favorite dinosaur, he's purple. Where's my juice? Is it nap time yet?:cardie:
 
Indeed, it seems your advocating nothing more or less than the IDIC philosophy here.
 
I agree completely.

Does this mean Trek fans have a better chance of getting laid now?

I agree too.


and by the way, I'm not your average greasy-haired lives-in-Mom's-basement Star Trek Geek -- I'm actually married and have a child...

...so, yeah, I still don't have a lot of sex.
 
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The new Enterprise is great because it's different. The new bridge is greate because it's different. The new cast is great because they're different. The trailer is great because it's a different direction.

Nope. If there's a message here it's simpler than that.

Change may or may not be an improvement in any sense other than one important one: the alternative to change is extinction.

Well, unless you're a coelacanth. Coelacanths have certainly resisted being dumbed down for the masses. ;)
 
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I agree completely.

Does this mean Trek fans have a better chance of getting laid now?

I agree too.


and by the way, I'm not your average greasy-haired lives-in-Mom's-basement Star Trek Geek -- I'm actually married and have a child...

...so, yeah, I still don't have a lot of sex.
Well I'm married with TWO children (7 and 3) and I DO still get a lot of sex. You must be doing something wrong then. :lol: (unless, of course, your child is 2 or under--then it's completely understandable) ;)
 
I remember all this same stuff being said when Enterprise debuted as well (from many of the same people).
The idea behind ENT was solid. The execution fell on its face.

Trek XI is far less of a challenge to any preconceived notions than ENT was, but the final determination will be the same: it's all in the execution.

To succeed, Trek just needs to return to the elements that made TOS and DS9 so great and avoid the bland, boring, risk-averse approach of TNG, VOY and the first three seasons of ENT.

I see no reason to fear that Abrams & crew will repeat the mistakes of Berman & Braga. The only thing to fear is that they will bring their own, all-new mistakes.
 
(Hey, mods, I'm going somewhere with this. Really.)

It appears that sexual reproduction is about a billion years old, give or take. Most forms of life on Earth reproduce sexually, with sex being defined as the production of offspring through the mixing and recombination of traits from more than one parent.

....

etc, etc

....
That's perfectly well-reasoned and well-stated. And I don't disagree with anything you said.

I've been much in favor of seeing new, interesting permutations of Star Trek (or any other form of entertainment).

But the analogy does fall short in terms of this particular movie. Why, you ask? Because in the case of this movie, it's not creating something new... it's redefining the parentage of the entire chain of life.

Using the "evolution" analogy, this would be like deciding that instead of Cro-Magnon man or Neanderthal man or whatever being our ancestor, in reality our ancestors were birds... because the person telling the story likes birds better.

Will this make for a bad movie? Nah... not necessarily. Nor will it, inherently, make for a good one.

But it won't be a Star Trek movie... except in name... if it ends up separating itself from everything that's come before, so that none of what's been created previously "fits" anymore. It'll become a stand-alone item, separate and independent from 40+ years of Star Trek that's already out there.

That won't make for a bad movie, or a good one. But it'll make the use of the description "Star Trek" sort of pointless. If they end up doing that, they'd have been better off just calling it "Space Search" and calling the young guy "John Curt" and making his his second-in-command a red-skinned Martian female named "Spaul" and so forth.

That's not evolution... that's "offshoot evolution." Maybe that planet where intelligent life grew from birds rather than primates will end up being a better place... but it'll never be the same place.

********

What I WANT to see is new material added to what we've already got. I love seeing a new TOS-era ship design (just not presented as the Enterprise). I love seeing new, significantly-different characters set in that era (just not so they're called the same people). It's ONLY the "contradiction" part that really rubs me (and others) the wrong way.
 
But it won't be a Star Trek movie... except in name... if it ends up separating itself from everything that's come before, so that none of what's been created previously "fits" anymore. It'll become a stand-alone item, separate and independent from 40+ years of Star Trek that's already out there.

This is how it becomes a Star Trek movie:

"what did you do tonight?

I saw the new star trek movie".
 
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