the "bridge" death of Kirk: REBOOT?

[Temis the Vorta]

I dunno if this is the place to start speculating on the plotline that the new TOS cast will follow - if not, boot this to Future of Trek so that the three people who inhabit that place can see it - but how would everyone feel about the death of Kirk being simply deleted from this plotline and one day replaced by something that maybe is a tad more satisfying?

And if you are in favor of replacement for that scene, what death would be appropriate for Kirk and how old should Chris Pine be when it happens (in other words, how long a leash does the new team get?)

 

[MattJC]

If these guys are sticking to canon as they claim they are(and that's a big if), I think they should just leave Kirk dead as is. I know his death isn't very popular but I want at least one Trek death to stick. It might as well be Kirk's.

 

[M'Sharak]

Does seem a little better-suited to FoT, I'd think. While it's impossible to be 100% certain, given the amount of detail we know, I very much suspect that Kirk's bridge dive won't be addressed in this movie.

 

[btflash]

I dunno if this is the place to start speculating on the plotline that the new TOS cast will follow - if not, boot this to Future of Trek so that the three people who inhabit that place can see it - but how would everyone feel about the death of Kirk being simply deleted from this plotline and one day replaced by something that maybe is a tad more satisfying?

And if you are in favor of replacement for that scene, what death would be appropriate for Kirk and how old should Chris Pine be when it happens (in other words, how long a leash does the new team get?)

if we are indeed rebooting the original crew, why kill him off at all? it really serves no purpose.i hated the way he died in generations. it was pointless and added nothing to the story.however it did serve as a reason to keep shatner out of the new film which btw i think was a huge mistake!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

So you'd rather Kirk not ever die in the line of duty and just pass away from old age someday?

 

[Lt. Trull]

i want to see them keep pulling him out of the nexus....
sorta like freeze dried kirk.... just unthaw whenever you need him....

 

[FalTorPan]

I don't care whether the new movie adheres to the continuity of prior stories, so I have no opinion on this issue.

 

[DontFeedPhil]

What more do you want. He died "on the Bridge" or at least was crushed by "the Bridge". I know thats how I picture him dying. Thats the best way for a StarFleet Captain to go. Too bad it wasnt his bridge...lol

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Quinto's Spock should strangle Kirk to death:

...or maybe Generations will turn out to be nothing but a dream:

 

[Supervisor 194]

Kirk got a terrible death in Generations; Braga and Moore admit that now, and they wrote it. Instead of trying to subvert expectations as they did in Generations, I'd prefer to see Kirk (many years from now) go out saving the universe, last man on the ship, alone on the bridge, phasers firing, etc. Star Trek's most larger-than-life hero deserves no less.

 

[btflash]

So you'd rather Kirk not ever die in the line of duty and just pass away from old age someday?

actually, yes. especially if he is going to be killed off in such a ridiculous manner!

 

[T'Cal]

The more I watch GEN the less I like it. Without going into the details as has been done here often enough, the nexus plotline had way too many holes in it. I really liked the 23rd century scenes at the beginning and I liked the 24th century stuff as well. The score is perhaps mty favorite of all Trek. But the nexus that tied them together did so very poorly. BTW, as I mentioned before, the audio-novel is better than the film with additional Spock and McCoy scenes not to mention an additional nexus scene for Kirk. Soran's motivation is better explained as well.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I dunno if this is the place to start speculating on the plotline that the new TOS cast will follow - if not, boot this to Future of Trek so that the three people who inhabit that place can see it - but how would everyone feel about the death of Kirk being simply deleted from this plotline and one day replaced by something that maybe is a tad more satisfying?

And if you are in favor of replacement for that scene, what death would be appropriate for Kirk and how old should Chris Pine be when it happens (in other words, how long a leash does the new team get?)

if we are indeed rebooting the original crew, why kill him off at all? it really serves no purpose.i hated the way he died in generations. it was pointless and added nothing to the story.however it did serve as a reason to keep shatner out of the new film which btw i think was a huge mistake!

I think everyone but the Beebs (and those folks who were holding grudges from SNL) hated that bit.

But on the other hand, for fiction (excepting over-the-top comedy) to have any real relevance, or any actual entertainment value for that matter, it needs to involve real risks, and real consequences.

I'm one of those who really didn't want Spock brought back. Think about the book which was used throughout TWOK, "A Tale of Two Cities." Suppose that there was a sequel to that book, where Sidney Carton somehow survived. Wouldn't that have cheapened his sacrifice?

I can see it now. "A Tale of Three Cities - The Wrath of Carton"

Where he goes back to France and takes his revenge in various horrible ways on those who had him hung. He'd be in full Rambo regalia, doing bad quips like the ones Schwartzeneger is famous for...
​

Seriously... Spock should have been allowed to actually die, and the drama for the future would have been based as much upon his ABSENCE as upon anything else.

AFAIK, Spock should have been left dead... but they didn't do that. And if they "cheat" in the case of Kirk, that would just totally ruin any ability for me to be able to feel any form of tension or risk.

Reality has consequences... and so does GOOD fiction. Only crap-fiction doesn't.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Dude's dead. Let him be.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Dunno about his death, but what rumors I've heard so far about XI indicate that it could be a "Kirk-o-centric" version of the TAS story "Yesteryear".


Just a gut feeling.


AG

 

[3D Master]

Kirk got a terrible death in Generations; Braga and Moore admit that now, and they wrote it. Instead of trying to subvert expectations as they did in Generations, I'd prefer to see Kirk (many years from now) go out saving the universe, last man on the ship, alone on the bridge, phasers firing, etc. Star Trek's most larger-than-life hero deserves no less.

The thing is Generations is overall pretty good, apart from two flaws that compound each other, and are solved with just one thing:

1. Kirk dying on a bridge instead of THE (battle) bridge of the Enterprise.

2. The visual climax of the film; the battle with the Klingon Bird of Prey and the crashing of the saucer was in the middle of the film, instead of at the end, where it belonged.

So restructuring this: would have the battle end just as the star goes nova, the Klingon away and the planet and the Enterprise is destroyed.

Off to the Nexus and Kirk and Picard save the star from going Nova killing Soran. The battle above is still raging. The warp core goes critical, the first torpedo hit doesn't destroy the Klingons but makes them start to leave. The damage destroyed the ability of the ship to separate automatically, and must be done manually. Picard wants to go, but Kirk says no, Picard belongs on his bridge, Kirk will go do the separation.

Off to Kirk doing that, with Picard on the ship. The ship separates; and the Klingons return. The Klingons realize the ship is now at their mercy, and they're not letting them get away. They fire and frie the saucer's transporters, so they can't get Kirk off.

Kirk reaches the bridges the Battle bridge, and as his last act destroys the Klingons with the stardrive section. His last communique is "It was fun", and then the stardrive explodes; in slow motion, cue the emotional music and montage of Kirk through the years.

Final scene before the epilogue; the first and only time we see the saucer section crash onto the planet.

It gives us: Kirk dying where he should, how he should, saving the new crew's lives, the visual climax at the climax of the film, and the added bonus of parallelling Kirk's "second" death with his "first" one. Not to mention that Kirk died alone, as he said he would to Spock and McCoy in STV.

I've pretty much rewritten Generations in my head to be like that.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Kirk got a terrible death in Generations; Braga and Moore admit that now, and they wrote it. Instead of trying to subvert expectations as they did in Generations, I'd prefer to see Kirk (many years from now) go out saving the universe, last man on the ship, alone on the bridge, phasers firing, etc. Star Trek's most larger-than-life hero deserves no less.

The thing is Generations is overall pretty good, apart from two flaws that compound each other, and are solved with just one thing:

1. Kirk dying on a bridge instead of THE (battle) bridge of the Enterprise.

2. The visual climax of the film; the battle with the Klingon Bird of Prey and the crashing of the saucer was in the middle of the film, instead of at the end, where it belonged.

So restructuring this: would have the battle end just as the star goes nova, the Klingon away and the planet and the Enterprise is destroyed.

Off to the Nexus and Kirk and Picard save the star from going Nova killing Soran. The battle above is still raging. The warp core goes critical, the first torpedo hit doesn't destroy the Klingons but makes them start to leave. The damage destroyed the ability of the ship to separate automatically, and must be done manually. Picard wants to go, but Kirk says no, Picard belongs on his bridge, Kirk will go do the separation.

Off to Kirk doing that, with Picard on the ship. The ship separates; and the Klingons return. The Klingons realize the ship is now at their mercy, and they're not letting them get away. They fire and frie the saucer's transporters, so they can't get Kirk off.

Kirk reaches the bridges the Battle bridge, and as his last act destroys the Klingons with the stardrive section. His last communique is "It was fun", and then the stardrive explodes; in slow motion, cue the emotional music and montage of Kirk through the years.

Final scene before the epilogue; the first and only time we see the saucer section crash onto the planet.

It gives us: Kirk dying where he should, how he should, saving the new crew's lives, the visual climax at the climax of the film, and the added bonus of parallelling Kirk's "second" death with his "first" one. Not to mention that Kirk died alone, as he said he would to Spock and McCoy in STV.

I've pretty much rewritten Generations in my head to be like that.

Intriguingly, the computer game version of "Generations" is has multiple branching storylines... it's possible, for instance, to save the 1701-D completely. One "branch" has Kirk fighting Soran in the 1701-D's secondary hull post-separation... with Soran trying to fire the sun-destroying torpedo from the secondary hull's aft launcher, as I recall.

Kirk saved the day by destroying the (now-evacuated) secondary hull with himself and Soran aboard... it was the only way to prevent the launch in time.

The game generally sucked, but that version of the ending (and I'm a bit fuzzy about it since I haven't played that in over a decade!) was far more satisfying.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Well, here's the rub.

Up until we saw the new bridge photos, pretty much everyone around here took Abrams and Co. at their word that that movie was going to be a prequel that preserved canon. Fans silenced any complaints of a reboot by citing Abrams and Co.

Then, the new bridge photos came out and pretty much all of those same people instantly acted not only as if the new movie is a reboot but also as if we all knew it was going to be a reboot all along.

Ignoring the hypocrisy of the above for a moment...

Abrams said he couldn't work Shatner's Kirk into the movie because (according to canon), Shatner's Kirk is dead.

But now that we are (mostly) all suddenly so sure that this new film is a reboot (or some variation of that word), that "excuse" no longer applies.

So, either:

A) The movie is a strict canon sequel and those bridge photos we saw exist only in the Twilight Zone, or...

B) The movie loosely follows something approaching canon, yet large enough liberties have already been taken to convince many of the fans here that the movie is now a reboot (which is inherently problematic), or...

C) The movie really is a reboot, invalidating Abrams' given reason for excluding Shatner from the movie, meaning either:

.....1) Shatner really is in the movie, or...

.....2) Abrams is a lying sack of shit.

 

[Akiraprise]

^ I've always thought option 1 was going to end up being true.

 

[Supervisor 194]

3D Master, your scenario is far more satisfying than what ended up on screen; I have a feeling that if TPTB had used something like similar, then there wouldn't have been quite as much disappointment.