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Abrams: ST is silly and ridiculous

At one point someone (I don't remember who, and the script is not in front of me) says "Mr. Sulu, you're about the most scrutable person I know."

That's the tagline from a TAS episode.

Ah, so it got recycled. What episode?

In "The Corbomite Maneuver," Sulu is explaining how as a child he was fascinated by old movies from the 20th century in which the orientals [sic] were the villains and were portrayed as stereotypes along the lines we're discussing here. He talks about practicing certain expressions in the mirror, etc...

All in all, a rather weird little digression in the script.

There's also a line that was cut in the briefing room scene which I wish that they had left in. When Spock says "Flypaper" a confused Uhura says "I thought I understood English."

I suppose what both moments had in common was Sohl emphasizing these smaller supporting parts and the fact that they each in some way represented non-American, even non-Western cultures.
 
Oh god. So, in order to like something, I have to like everything about it? Here's something. I'm a fan of Star Trek. I am fan of about 20% of the stories, I think the other 80% are crap. I think the sets and design are pretty crap by today's standards. Bowl-cuts and primary coloured costumes are ridiculous and silly.

Maybe you should go check out how silly and ridiculous the average aircraft carriers are, with all those different one color costumes. I'm sure after telling the people who designed them for efficiency and safety's sake they are silly and ridiculous, they will crap their pants will quickly redesign them more to your pallet. A lot of people will die, but hey, some guy behind a computer screen and a self-important movie director will no longer think those uniforms are silly and ridiculous.

As for hairdos, go tell the people in the military how silly and out of date the ultra short hair is. I'm sure they'll get proper long-haired hair cuts right away to please movie directors and people so they will no longer look "silly".

The stories that really shine, the times the dialog really works between the characters - those episodes that rise above TOS's inherent silliness and camp - are what make me a fan of the series.
TOS is neither silly, nor campy. That concept right there tells me you're not really a fan of TOS at all. If you consider only 20% of what something has to offer as good, you're saying the large majority of that something is crap. And if the large majority of it is crap, IT is crap. So no, you're not a fan.

You're a fan of something, you'll have consider at the very least 51% of it to be good.

ST is silly and ridiculous
Well... it was.

You can like the show all you want, but explain how travelling thousands of light years from Earth to recreate the O.K Corral isn't silly or ridiculous.

They didn't travel thousands of light years from Earth to recreate the OK Corral.

But I suppose that even if it happened, it be just as ridiculous as putting a small statue of liberty in Vegas and Paris. As putting western themed towns as tourist attractions. As making an attraction park made only about cartoon characters. All utterly ridiculous, so of course those never happened.

What can't we, the movies supporters, understand? The fact that some people seemed to think a $200 Million dollar movie in 2008 would look like a 1960's TV show? Cause thats why I keep hearing and laughing at.

Nope, not a single person has said that. You keep hearing that because you WANT to keep hearing it, so you can keep sneering at and trying to ridicule and marginalize anyone who dares to be critical.
 
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TOS is neither silly, nor campy.


Hmph.jpg
 
TOS is neither silly, nor campy. That concept right there tells me you're not really a fan of TOS at all. If you consider only 20% of what something has to offer as good, you're saying the large majority of that something is crap. And if the large majority of it is crap, IT is crap. So no, you're not a fan.

You're a fan of something, you'll have consider at the very least 51% of it to be good.

Wow, I didn't realize there was a mathematical formula for figuring out if you're a fan of something! Here I thought it had to do with consistently following and enjoying that entertainment for 35 years of my life!

Seriously, folks, with the "you don't agree with my opinion of this aspect of Star Trek so you're not a real fan" crap - get over yourself.

PS - TOS is silly and campy. In fact Star Trek in general is silly and campy. That's one of the many reasons that I love it. I am not only a fan, I'm a second generation fan, and I could probably kick your behind in a Trek trivia contest.

Polaris - thanks for those interesting bits of Trek history. I just remember reading the "not inscrutable" comment and rewatching a lot of TOS taking note of Takei's performance and how it did work against earlier stereotypes in a variety of subtle ways. While it sounds like the scene you mention was a tad odd, I always appreciated the little ways the series gave a sense of the whole of humanity being represented with their cultural identities intact. The scene in "The Man Trap" where Uhura speaks Swahili was always one of my favorites for demonstrating, in a two-second bit, diversity. As I've grown older and become more aware of how most of the West perceives Africa, it has impressed me more and more that Roddenberry and company had so much respect for cultures generally considered at that time to be vastly inferior or threatening to the West.
 
What can't we, the movies supporters, understand? The fact that some people seemed to think a $200 Million dollar movie in 2008 would look like a 1960's TV show? Cause thats why I keep hearing and laughing at.

Could the bridge have looked as much like the original as the uniforms do?

Did it have to be changed as much as it seems it will?

Yes, it did. The bridge needed to be drastically updated to appear "futuristic" to the modern auidence. As it appears in TOS, it is seriously backward so far as an honest depiction of our future. The nature of the interfaces and displays are firmly rooted in the 60's. On a day-to-day basis, we utilise technology that appears far more advanced than the knobs, switches and dials seen on TOS. To the audiences of 1966, the design may have seemed adequate to suspend disbelief. Today? When we have items such as iPhones? Nope. Not a chance.

It's a matter of perspective.

And nobody's ever said things had to look unfunctional and incomplete, and obviously low budget 1960s tv creation. But you know, keep willfully ignoring that.

The simple fact is, that they could have made a bridge, that with a glimpse would seem like the same bridge, and then when you longer at it, you're going, "Holy f! What a bridge!"
 
The simple fact is, that they could have made a bridge, that with a glimpse would seem like the same bridge, and then when you longer at it, you're going, "Holy f! What a bridge!"

A trekkie might react that way to some kind of "faithful" update to the old bridge. No one else would because the design itself is small, limited and very familiar. And it's not trekkies that these people need to impress.
 
The difference is Austin Powers was set in parts during the 60s, where as Star Trek is supposed to be in the mid 23rd century.

Things like computers which sound like they are typewriters wont stand up today,

And nobody ever claimed they should sound like typewriters, but you know, keep pumping out the bullshit, you might start to believe it yourself.

The simple fact is, that they could have made a bridge, that with a glimpse would seem like the same bridge, and then when you longer at it, you're going, "Holy f! What a bridge!"

A trekkie might react that way to some kind of "faithful" update to the old bridge. No one else would because the design itself is small, limited and very familiar. And it's not trekkies that these people need to impress.

Ha! I would say that about the uniforms, yet we pretty much got carbon copies of the originals. Indeed, I would have made some subtle changes like added black parts to the side to the uniforms. The reason why Shatner always looked fat, was because of the unbroken color.

The ridiculous iBridge however, looks way too familiar, and extremely limited not to mention blindingly ridiculous as opposed to a functional update to the TOS bridge.

Indeed, I would not make the bridge bigger, I probably would have made a little smaller, make it more cramped, to give the idea of busy place, the nerve center of the starship.

Someone can say Star Trek is ridiculous and someone else can say it isn't, and they'll both be right.

Well, I'd rather that the guy who says Star Trek is ridiculous not be the same guy who's making the next Star Trek, but who knows, it worked pretty well with Ronald D. Moore and Battlestar Galactica.

No, actually, it didn't. nBSG is a big pile of junk. One of the most horrible series, SF or otherwise, to come around in recent times. Only made more glaring by the re-creators constant attempts to make their show look so awesome, and denigrate the original show as a silly pile of junk.

TOS is neither silly, nor campy. That concept right there tells me you're not really a fan of TOS at all. If you consider only 20% of what something has to offer as good, you're saying the large majority of that something is crap. And if the large majority of it is crap, IT is crap. So no, you're not a fan.

You're a fan of something, you'll have consider at the very least 51% of it to be good.

Wow, I didn't realize there was a mathematical formula for figuring out if you're a fan of something! Here I thought it had to do with consistently following and enjoying that entertainment for 35 years of my life!

Seriously, folks, with the "you don't agree with my opinion of this aspect of Star Trek so you're not a real fan" crap - get over yourself.

You can't be a fan of something if you consider it bad. If you consider 80% of it bad, you consider IT bad. In fact, I can't even grasp why anyone would be watching something that is 80% bad, having only a few good things. It's the reason I QUIT watching Enterprise, didn't even bother watching nBSG, stopped watching Stargate ever deteriorating into silly meaningless unserious junk, and quit watching Lost after one season when I released that after the fifth episode it was reduced to something that never pushed the plot forward; in the first 4 or 5 episodes more happened than in the entire season afterward, and no doubt beyond.

You want to be a fan of something, you have to consider a majority of it good, and that means 51%, and I'm thinking if you consider only 51% of something good, you're at best a casual fan, and thus not a fan(atic) at all.

PS - TOS is silly and campy. In fact Star Trek in general is silly and campy. That's one of the many reasons that I love it. I am not only a fan, I'm a second generation fan, and I could probably kick your behind in a Trek trivia contest.
I doubt you'd win, I've won Trek trivia contests, but that's besides the point. Trek is not silly and certainly not campy. You don't seem to understand what campy is. Campy is deliberately making something silly, often taking something that is a little iffy and pushing it way over the top, to get a laugh out of people. Star Trek never did that; humorous episodes aside, they were humorous, not campy. The two not being the same. Star Trek thus was never campy, never ever in its entire run in ANY incarnation.

It may have a few episodes that are silly (I'm looking at you "The Alternative Factor", "Threshold", "Innocence") but having a few silly and ridiculous episodes, does not make the entire thing silly. That's like saying because Star Trek, The X-Files, Stargate, Highlander, etc had a few comedic episodes all of those series were comedies.
 
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No, actually, it didn't. nBSG is a big pile of junk. One of the most horrible series, SF or otherwise, to come around in recent times. Only made more glaring by the re-creators constant attempts to make their show look so awesome, and denigrate the original show as a silly pile of junk.

:klingon: Nuh-Uhhhhh!

:scream: Uh-Huhhhh!

:klingon: Nu-UHHHH!

:scream: Uh-HUUUHH!

:klingon: Infinity!
 
If the new movie doesn't sound exactly like TOS, complete with computers screaming "WORKING!" while making teletype noises, then Abrams and cabal clearly hate TOS and want to piss all over it. And if any of you don't want the new film to have exactly the same timeless sound effects, then you aren't REAL fans!
 
TOS is silly and campy. In fact Star Trek in general is silly and campy. That's one of the many reasons that I love it.

I agree 100%, and I absolutely love and adore 100% of TOS. I probably like the really campy stuff (Trouble with Tribbles, Road to Eden, etc) even MORE than I love the "serious" preachy episodes because they're just so much fun to watch.

You can be a Trek fan and love its campy and silly side. You really can.
 
You don't seem to understand what campy is. Campy is deliberately making something silly, often taking something that is a little iffy and pushing it way over the top, to get a laugh out of people.

I don't think that's necessarily the definition of camp. Retrospection and a post-modern hindsight tend to affect perception; after all, shows like Dallas, Jonny Quest, and Starsky & Hutch were made with the most serious of intentions but come across as campy today (as opposed to, say, CHIPs and Dynasty, which were indeed made with camp in mind).
 
If the new movie doesn't sound exactly like TOS, complete with computers screaming "WORKING!" while making teletype noises, then Abrams and cabal clearly hate TOS and want to piss all over it. And if any of you don't want the new film to have exactly the same timeless sound effects, then you aren't REAL fans!

And again someone who tries to marginalize, and ridicule what people have been saying by saying something NONE of them have been saying. But do continue to be dishonest, maybe you'll start to believe it yourself one day.

...re-creators constant attempts to...denigrate the original show as a silly pile of junk.

They are aided and abetted in that, of course, by almost every viewer with taste who ever saw the original show. ;)

Oh, sure, BAD taste, but that doesn't change the fact it's a pile of meaningless junk, and their saying how silly it is, only shows off just how bad their own creation is. Because unlike their junk, the original was actually good, no matter how much it was limited by interfering executives, changing directives at the last moment from series of mini-series to a weekly series without properly increasing budget, and the sensibilities of the times.
 
If the new movie doesn't sound exactly like TOS, complete with computers screaming "WORKING!" while making teletype noises, then Abrams and cabal clearly hate TOS and want to piss all over it. And if any of you don't want the new film to have exactly the same timeless sound effects, then you aren't REAL fans!

And again someone who tries to marginalize, and ridicule what people have been saying by saying something NONE of them have been saying. But do continue to be dishonest, maybe you'll start to believe it yourself one day.

I am saying it, dude. And if you don't want what I want, then you're not a True Fan.
 
I misremembered the exact dialogue from "The Corbomite Maneuver."

Here it is, from the May 20, 1966 Second Revised Final draft:


Sulu has said "One minute" in unison with Balok, checking his instruments, exact timing. He draws some irritated looks. Sulu shrugs. Kirk is amused.

SULU: I knew he would.

KIRK: Has it ever occurred to you that you're not a very inscrutable Oriental, Mister Sulu?

Sulu turns, grins.

SULU: I tried it once when I was a kid. Remember those old...(searching the word)...images on celluloid stuff...

KIRK: Cinema.

SCOTT: Movies.

SULU: Yes, cinema. The ones about the time of the Sino-Western trouble...

UHURA: World War III, almost.

Kirk (nods): The world was very lucky it was stopped in time. None of us here would be enjoying life today if...

Kirk trails his words, then sees McCoy next to him is grinning. A round of silence, then:

SULU: Well, anyway, the villains were Oriental, remember? I loved them. I used to sit in front of the mirror for hours practicing the drooping eyelids, mysterious expressions...(grins) I never knew what it meant, these movies were I guess two hundred years old or so. But I wanted to be like them.

UHURA: You never made it.

SULU: I can't figure out why I'm like this! I don't have a drop of Western blood.


Really weird, IMAO.
 
If the new movie doesn't sound exactly like TOS, complete with computers screaming "WORKING!" while making teletype noises, then Abrams and cabal clearly hate TOS and want to piss all over it. And if any of you don't want the new film to have exactly the same timeless sound effects, then you aren't REAL fans!

And again someone who tries to marginalize, and ridicule what people have been saying by saying something NONE of them have been saying. But do continue to be dishonest, maybe you'll start to believe it yourself one day.

I am saying it, dude. And if you don't want what I want, then you're not a True Fan.

And another dishonest, lying, attempt.
 
Really weird, IMAO.

You think that's weird?

You should see the version of that scene that Shatner wanted to go with, instead:

KIRK: Has it ever occurred to you that you're not a very inscrutable Oriental, Mister Sulu?

Sulu turns, grins.

KIRK: Cinema.

SULU: Yes.

Kirk (nods): The world was very lucky it was stopped in time. None of us here would be enjoying life today if...

Kirk trails his words, then sees McCoy next to him is grinning. A round of silence, then:

SULU: Well...

UHURA: [inaudible]

 
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