Here's An Electric Car For You

[John Picard]

I dragged this car out of a junkyard for a friend of mine (Matt) earlier this year for a business he and a friend of his started. It started out life as a 1968 Volkswagen Beetle with a Semi-Automatic transmission. Matt and Ed figured that with rising fuel prices they could capture a market of people looking for an alternative power for a daily driver since the average person drives ~35 miles per day. Matt's other selling point is that the car looks classy and isn't some dorky golf cart that can only get up to 25mph. The fenders, floorpans, and the rear luggage tray are all fiberglass to help reduce weight. The sliding ragtop was installed to aid in reducing weight as well. Much of the front beam/steering system was scratch built. Matt is incredibly bright and developed the charging system for the car to work off of regular 110V/120V household outlets. The system is also forward compatible, meaning that it can be adapted as technology advances (he has applied for patents on his charging system). He uses a bank of 6V batteries, which can handle constant charging/discharging. 12V batteries wouldn't last 6 months under those conditions, but the 6V batteries will.
He garnered a lot of attention at the Eureka Springs VW show in August, and now E-Bay is his follow-up. He stated he's seen people paying upwards of $15,000 "for a golf cart", whereas here they can get a nice vehicle that will shield them from the elements and is street legal.

 

[Bill Morris]

Cool.

One thing you should know about the '68 Beetle, though. If it gets rear-ended, even at just 30 mph relative speed, the two front seats (if occcupied) can break free from their adjustor tracks, causing the occupants to hit their heads on the front of the package tray, which is extremely disabling or even fatal. Installing four U-bolts through holes in the floor is a cheap and easy countermeasure. If you look below either front seat while adjusting it, you can see the problem and how to place the U-bolts or similar countermeasure.

 

[John Picard]

Cool.

One thing you should know about the '68 Beetle, though. If it gets rear-ended, even at just 30 mph relative speed, the two front seats (if occcupied) can break free from their adjustor tracks, causing the occupants to hit their heads on the front of the package tray, which is extremely disabling or even fatal. Installing four U-bolts through holes in the floor is a cheap and easy countermeasure. If you look below either front seat while adjusting it, you can see the problem and how to place the U-bolts or similar countermeasure.

I have been involved in ACVW's for over 20 years and I have never heard of such a thing. The seat tracks are spot welded to the floopan on all vintage VW's. I know someone who was rear-ended in his 58 Beetle, and the seat tracks didn't break free. Your source must be a myth that has been passed of as fact.

 

[MANT!]

Maybe you should write a book.."Tom Swift and his Electric Bug!!"

Seriously, it's a fine car..you should be commended..EV's more often than not do look like cheap Hollywood props for the most part..

 

[Bill Morris]

Cool.

One thing you should know about the '68 Beetle, though. If it gets rear-ended, even at just 30 mph relative speed, the two front seats (if occcupied) can break free from their adjustor tracks, causing the occupants to hit their heads on the front of the package tray, which is extremely disabling or even fatal. Installing four U-bolts through holes in the floor is a cheap and easy countermeasure. If you look below either front seat while adjusting it, you can see the problem and how to place the U-bolts or similar countermeasure.

I have been involved in ACVW's for over 20 years and I have never heard of such a thing. The seat tracks are spot welded to the floopan on all vintage VW's. I know someone who was rear-ended in his 58 Beetle, and the seat tracks didn't break free. Your source must be a myth that has been passed of as fact.

The seat tracks don't come loose. The two lips of the track can bend at the point above the slider enough for it to escape--if someone is sitting in the seat and the car gets rear-ended. You should be able to see that, unless the one you have has been upgraded with a better mechanism sometime in the past. Many owners were aware of the problem and had their Beetles modified for their own safety. I don't think there was ever an official recall.

There was actually a segment on 60 Minutes about this around 1977, although they didn't show what I explained, only stories from people in wheelchairs, the maker's refusal to admit there was a problem, etc.

Audi had a problem of a microcomputer that controlled acceleration and ended up killing a lot of people due to a malfunction. They did a recall without ever admitting fault. That model was banned in the State of New York after 400 people were killed in such freak accidents, where the car suddenly went full throttle by itself. I saw one such accident. That's how I became aware of it. There was also a segment about that on 60 Minutes maybe a year later, and they demontrated the car taking off by itself.

With GM it was motor mounts with two metal brackets held together by a strong piece of rubber, which eventually deteriorated owing to molecular crosslinking. The countermeasure was a cleverly designed version in which the metal brackets interlocked with the rubber still in between. Burt Lancaster filmed a public-service announcement that was widely shown on TV, warning of the problem and urging owners to take their cars in for recall. This flaw also caused numerous accidents, since the engine would suddenly no longer be secured to the car's frame.

 

[RevDMV]

Nice looking conversion. Would be interesting to see what it could do with more advanced (and lighter) battery tech.

 

[John Picard]

Nice looking conversion. Would be interesting to see what it could do with more advanced (and lighter) battery tech.

That's the problem. Chevrolet holds the patent on Lithium-Ion battery technology and as such, no one, not even Toyota, can build a Lithium-Ion battery any larger than a "AA" (?). I believe that's what Matt said when he explained it to me. If you open the battery pack of a rechargeable tool, you'll see that it is actually a bundle of smaller batteries all connected in series, and the battery pack in the Prius is like that as well. A large block that is jammed with little batteries.

I wish I had some "Before" pictures when I hauled the car out of the junkyard for him. I swapped him a 4-speed transmission for the Automatic. He went into detail with me that if the future owner wants a more powerful motor the amount of time to swap is under an hour. This would indeed be a great daily commuter vehicle for anyone who does not have to traverse (steep) inclines and has, at most, a 20 - 35 mile round trip commute.

 

[Brolan]

It's a cool car but it looks like almost all the trunk space is taken up by the batteries and I didn't see a spare tire.

 

[Bill Morris]

Regarding lithium-ion batteries, well, the ElectraFlyerC is an airplane powered by a 5.6 kWh lithium-ion battery that can fly for 90-120 minutes on a single charge. It's true that it gets extremely high fuel economy, but replacing the battery after 3 years costs somewhere around $10,000, which should be figured in to arrive at a more realistic estimate of average operating cost. The same goes for electric cars. I'm in favor of electric cars as part of a better overall energy strategy, but operating cost should take battery life and replacement into account so as not to be misleading.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/the-company-cla.html

Can we call lithium-battery-powered cars LCARS?

 

[John Picard]

It's a cool car but it looks like almost all the trunk space is taken up by the batteries and I didn't see a spare tire.

That's the drawback with using large, cube shaped batteries. There's some give and take.

Regarding lithium-ion batteries, well, the ElectraFlyerC is an airplane powered by a 5.6 kWh lithium-ion battery that can fly for 90-120 minutes on a single charge. It's true that it gets extremely high fuel economy, but replacing the battery after 3 years costs somewhere around $10,000, which should be figured in to arrive at a more realistic estimate of average operating cost. The same goes for electric cars. I'm in favor of electric cars as part of a better overall energy strategy, but operating cost should take battery life and replacement into account so as not to be misleading.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/the-company-cla.html

Can we call lithium-battery-powered cars LCARS?

That's the problem. People don't factor in replacing batteries in the operating cost. The question I have is why people think there's an unending supply of material for batteries. GM is working on fuel from algae, which I believe will be what the future holds. Electrics don't have the power or the longevity of internal combustion engines.

 

[Brolan]

It's a cool car but it looks like almost all the trunk space is taken up by the batteries and I didn't see a spare tire.

That's the drawback with using large, cube shaped batteries. There's some give and take.

Regarding lithium-ion batteries, well, the ElectraFlyerC is an airplane powered by a 5.6 kWh lithium-ion battery that can fly for 90-120 minutes on a single charge. It's true that it gets extremely high fuel economy, but replacing the battery after 3 years costs somewhere around $10,000, which should be figured in to arrive at a more realistic estimate of average operating cost. The same goes for electric cars. I'm in favor of electric cars as part of a better overall energy strategy, but operating cost should take battery life and replacement into account so as not to be misleading.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/the-company-cla.html

Can we call lithium-battery-powered cars LCARS?

That's the problem. People don't factor in replacing batteries in the operating cost. The question I have is why people think there's an unending supply of material for batteries. GM is working on fuel from algae, which I believe will be what the future holds. Electrics don't have the power or the longevity of internal combustion engines.

The batteries for this car shouldn't be too expensive, should they? Aren't they conventional car batteries?

 

[John Picard]

It's a cool car but it looks like almost all the trunk space is taken up by the batteries and I didn't see a spare tire.

That's the drawback with using large, cube shaped batteries. There's some give and take.

Regarding lithium-ion batteries, well, the ElectraFlyerC is an airplane powered by a 5.6 kWh lithium-ion battery that can fly for 90-120 minutes on a single charge. It's true that it gets extremely high fuel economy, but replacing the battery after 3 years costs somewhere around $10,000, which should be figured in to arrive at a more realistic estimate of average operating cost. The same goes for electric cars. I'm in favor of electric cars as part of a better overall energy strategy, but operating cost should take battery life and replacement into account so as not to be misleading.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/the-company-cla.html

Can we call lithium-battery-powered cars LCARS?

That's the problem. People don't factor in replacing batteries in the operating cost. The question I have is why people think there's an unending supply of material for batteries. GM is working on fuel from algae, which I believe will be what the future holds. Electrics don't have the power or the longevity of internal combustion engines.

The batteries for this car shouldn't be too expensive, should they? Aren't they conventional car batteries?

They are regular 6V batteries *BUT* he gets them from Interstate Batteries, which are of higher quality/durability. Even when the batteries need to be replaced at the end of three years, it's still cheaper than regular maintenance involved with a fuel powered vehicle.

We had an interesting chat last night about his other projects. Here's the website that he threw together very quickly but will evolve over time.

http://www.ecosmotors.com/

 

[JustAFriend]

Would also be interesting to see what would
happen in an accident with a trunk full of
liquid-acid batteries (not sure I'D want to
be sitting in the car.....)

 

[John Picard]

Would also be interesting to see what would
happen in an accident with a trunk full of
liquid-acid batteries (not sure I'D want to
be sitting in the car.....)

They'd break open just like any other car if they were damaged. -- Your point?

 

[DEWLine]

GM is working on fuel from algae, which I believe will be what the future holds. Electrics don't have the power or the longevity of internal combustion engines.

I remember reading about the algae-as-fuel R&D most recently in Gwynne Dyer's Climate Wars over the weekend. Seems like the best approach, although the book seemed to be implying that this particular tech was just about ready to roll.

 

[Brolan]

Would also be interesting to see what would
happen in an accident with a trunk full of
liquid-acid batteries (not sure I'D want to
be sitting in the car.....)

They'd break open just like any other car if they were damaged. -- Your point?

There would a lot more battery acid lying about but no potentially explosive gasoline.

 

[John Picard]

^^ Gasoline is flammable, and unlike what you see in the movies, the chances of an explosion are minimal. Name the last time, in the past 20 years, you've witnessed an automobile accident where a vehicle exploded?

 

[Brolan]

^^ Gasoline is flammable, and unlike what you see in the movies, the chances of an explosion are minimal. Name the last time, in the past 20 years, you've witnessed an automobile accident where a vehicle exploded?

Not exploded, but it smoked, caught on fire, and was fully engulfed over the span of five minutes.