carbon creek - continuity error (not the velcro one)

[hxclespaulplayer]

Unofficial first contact between humans and vulcans wasn't in the 50s, it was 1930, when Spock and Kirk chased McCoy through the guardian of forever and ended up meeting Edith Keeler! (well actually, the first human that they encountered was the cop, when Kirk tried to explain Spocks' ears...) - this wouldn't have happened if Coto was in charge, would it?

 

[Captain X]

I face-palmed just now, thanks for that.

 

[Timo]

Of course, back in the 2150s when T'Pol was telling the "Carbon Creek" story, 1950s still was the first human-Vulcan contact. 1930s would only become the first contact in the 2260s.

That is, until Spock traveled five millenia into the past in "All Our Yesterdays", and met McCoy there.

And that record was beaten when Tuvok and Janeway both traveled to the Big Bang in "Death Wish" and looked each other in the eye.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Okay, now I'm confused.

I hate time travel, it really does my head in.

 

[mic of orion]

it gets confusing at times, who, what, when, oh really, wow, OK if you say so

 

[dave_R_treker]

If you want to get into it. It really was the first unofficial first contact with a Vulcan. Since the events from the TOS episode had not yet occurred. This event would not have happened for another 100 years after T’pol’s telling of it. Am I making any sense. As Janeway would have said “I hate temporal mechanics”.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Could T'Pol have been expected to know about what happened with Kirk and Spock? Even if, as I suspect, the events of COTEOF were always supposed to happen - there was never a timeline where they did not - T'Pol wouldn't necessarily know about it.

So even though Kirk and Spock's trip to the 1930's has already happened by the time Carbon Creek's little adventure takes place, there's no way T'Pol would know, since she has never (that we're aware of) been to New York.

 

[SFRabid]

Of course, back in the 2150s when T'Pol was telling the "Carbon Creek" story, 1950s still was the first human-Vulcan contact. 1930s would only become the first contact in the 2260s.

 

[gblews]

Unofficial first contact between humans and vulcans wasn't in the 50s, it was 1930, when Spock and Kirk chased McCoy through the guardian of forever and ended up meeting Edith Keeler! (well actually, the first human that they encountered was the cop, when Kirk tried to explain Spocks' ears...) - this wouldn't have happened if Coto was in charge, would it?

Wait, now i really can't remember, but did T'pol state that the contact in Carbon Creek was the first human/Vulcan contact?

 

[Mistral]

I do love a paradox! I love a pair a doxies more but this is fun too!

 

[Penguin]

I Liked the Carbon Creek Episode (one of my favorites) It was a fun episode if you didn't ask too many questions.

so even if it wasn't the first vulcan Huan contact as far as T-Pol's story it was.

You know what really bugged me in that Episode?

Three things: Trip saying that when the Vulcan who stayed behind died they would find his pointed ears but he didn't mention the Vulcan Green blood. If the guy had stayed behind and was found to have pointed ears and Green blood it would have been in the HIstory books.


Second: Why didn't the Vulcans put back on their Uniforms when they were rescued instead of wearing their human clothing to board the rescue ship.

Third: if you watched the ending closely T-Pol's Great Grandmother had Nothing in her hand when she boarded the rescue ship and I imagine that all of the Earth effects would have been burned by the resuce ship. but T-Pol goes into her quarters after telling the story and digs out the handbag that her Grandmother had. Where did it come from? The Earth clothing that the Vulcans were wearing when they boarded would have been sufficient for the Vulcans museum to dispaly.

 

[dave_R_treker]

Unofficial first contact between humans and vulcans wasn't in the 50s, it was 1930, when Spock and Kirk chased McCoy through the guardian of forever and ended up meeting Edith Keeler! (well actually, the first human that they encountered was the cop, when Kirk tried to explain Spocks' ears...) - this wouldn't have happened if Coto was in charge, would it?

Wait, now i really can't remember, but did T'pol state that the contact in Carbon Creek was the first human/Vulcan contact?

Yes she did. When asked why she visited Carbon creek, she said that she wanted to visit the place where first contact between Vulcan and human. And either Trip or Archer replied that she was a couple thousand miles off (or something to that effect).

 

[Nebusj]

Three things: Trip saying that when the Vulcan who stayed behind died they would find his pointed ears but he didn't mention the Vulcan Green blood. If the guy had stayed behind and was found to have pointed ears and Green blood it would have been in the HIstory books.

In much the same way that the history books are going to record the 42-year-old Canadian who, last July, was discovered on the operating table to have dark green-colored blood?

Well, perhaps he'll appear in the News Of The Weird columns, or Ripley's Believe It Or Not.

Second: Why didn't the Vulcans put back on their Uniforms when they were rescued instead of wearing their human clothing to board the rescue ship.

Why wouldn't they keep their human clothing? That'll be of anthropological value to the Vulcans; they can get Vulcan uniforms anywhere they want. Of course it may be that the uniforms were deliberately destroyed when T'Mir decided they should fit in to human society: the ship may be difficult to destroy in its entirety but surely their pants can be burned.

Third: if you watched the ending closely T-Pol's Great Grandmother had Nothing in her hand when she boarded the rescue ship and I imagine that all of the Earth effects would have been burned by the resuce ship. but T-Pol goes into her quarters after telling the story and digs out the handbag that her Grandmother had. Where did it come from? The Earth clothing that the Vulcans were wearing when they boarded would have been sufficient for the Vulcans museum to dispaly.

Why would the Earth effects be burned? I'd expect the rescue ship to take up as much as they could, first from Vulcan technology being kept out of human hands for reasonable caution, and second from Earth artifacts that could be later examined. That T'Mir was able to keep, or recover, some of it isn't much more remarkable than how astronauts keep personal kits or receive artifacts like slices of moon rocks.

Now, if you want a real continuity error: the radio reports, as T'Mir and company first come to Carbon Creek, a baseball game with Dix and Thompson on one team and Ellis and Wilcox on the other. But the only teams playing baseball at all between October 1957 and January 1958 were the Yankees and Braves, in the World Series, and neither team had an Ellis, Wilcox, or Dix. The Braves did have Bobby Thomson, though.

 

[Lady Conqueror]

Not really a continuity error.

To T'Pol, the first contact was her grandmother's story as recorded in the Vulcan database at the time. Spock's report on his unofficial first contact between himself & humans wouldn't be recorded in the Vulcan Database until he got back to his own time, about a hundred years later. It's a little unfair to claim that T'Pol should know about a historical first contact that hadn't been reported yet.

 

[Noname Given]

Now, if you want a real continuity error: the radio reports, as T'Mir and company first come to Carbon Creek, a baseball game with Dix and Thompson on one team and Ellis and Wilcox on the other. But the only teams playing baseball at all between October 1957 and January 1958 were the Yankees and Braves, in the World Series, and neither team had an Ellis, Wilcox, or Dix. The Braves did have Bobby Thomson, though.

Not neccessarily a continuity error as it seems there was a local minor league team in the area (referenced later as one of the miners invites M'estral to a baseball game in another town he has tickets to). It could have been the local minor league playoffs/world series.

 

[cooleddie74]

Technically, first contact sort of happened in 1893 when Data and Guinan were both on Earth and met Mark Twain, who eventually figured out they weren't human OR from this planet and was actually left back in his own time period with this knowledge...no memory erasure!

 

[Penguin]

Nebus1. The 42 year oldf Canadian who was found on the operating table to have dark green blood.

Assuming the guy was human he had human blood. What gives human blod it's red color is the oxygen in it. So unless ths guy was breathing something else his blood would have been red because the blood was carrying the oxygen to the organs and muscles which need it..

Now he might have had an infectin in his blood but that much infrection to turn his blood green would have killed him by the time the bloood was that color. Only infection that seems to fit that would be gangrene and that is deadly as hell.

I have an idea that his is an Urban legend, a hoax or some newspaper pulling a lot of legs.

 

[E-Blonde]

Nebus1. The 42 year oldf Canadian who was found on the operating table to have dark green blood.

Assuming the guy was human he had human blood. What gives human blod it's red color is the oxygen in it. So unless ths guy was breathing something else his blood would have been red because the blood was carrying the oxygen to the organs and muscles which need it..

Now he might have had an infectin in his blood but that much infrection to turn his blood green would have killed him by the time the bloood was that color. Only infection that seems to fit that would be gangrene and that is deadly as hell.

I have an idea that his is an Urban legend, a hoax or some newspaper pulling a lot of legs.

A quick google search revealed many references to the fellow with green blood. He was not a particularly healthy fellow and was consuming a number of medications. At least one of which contains sulphur. Apparently sulphur can attach to heamoglobin changing its color in a similar way that removing the oxygen can give blood a bluish tint. The condition is called Sulfhaemoglobinaemia. Read about it here.

Nebusj brings up the fascinating possibility that a 'real' alien might not be so ascetic as our fictionalized Vulcan friends, earning little more than a footnote from the media. If it was established that this fellow was thriving on green blood, now that would be something.

 

[cooleddie74]

First Contact is a formal, recognized event that has a specific cultural context and definition, so there really isn't any contradiction in T'Mir and her crew landing on Earth in 1957. First Contact was in 2063, when it became a worldwide, recognized event that just about every society surviving and recovering from WWIII knew about sooner or later.

 

[bluedana]

Trip saying that when the Vulcan who stayed behind died they would find his pointed ears but he didn't mention the Vulcan Green blood. If the guy had stayed behind and was found to have pointed ears and Green blood it would have been in the HIstory books.

You know, I actually gave this some thought when the episode first aired, and decided that Mestral would make sure that his body would not be discovered after he died.