Spoilers Destiny: Mere Mortals by David Mack Review Thread

[JeremyW]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

^ I personally don't think it is Natima Lang. Everything I've read about Natima Lang from the post DS9-R to Terok Nor suggests that she has more of an open attitude to positive foreign relations with other societies. Natima Lang I found went against the grain when it came to Cardassian territorialism, and in reading Garak's description of the Castellan (and Bacco's personal revelations), it doesn't jive with Lang.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

Interesting that there's a female castellan in charge of Cardassia now.

I wonder if it is Natima Lang.

My totally unsubstantiated guess is Iliana Ghemor. But I'm not sure which one.

Actually, the next book will reveal that...

Spoiler: Castellan

The alternate Tasha Yar was not killed on Romulus after having Sela, but escaped, only to be captured and imprisoned by the Cardassians. This information will be revealed by the new castellan -- the only female on all of Cardassia with a blonde pageboy haircut.

 

[ScottDS]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

But I do have to say, after reading from the lower half of page 180 through the upper half of page 185, my first thought was, "If Ingmar Bergman made a Trek movie, it would be like this."

I have to say, as a recovering film major, I take that as a compliment.

As a fellow recovering film major, I meant it as one. I mean, I could've said it reminded me of Woody Allen-style imitation Bergman (see Interiors) but I went for the real thing.

And I also echo the sentiments of my fellow posters when I say it's always disappointing to go to the bookstore and see two feet of Trek novels followed by four shelves of Star Wars novels. I hope that situation changes when the new film comes out.

I just finished the book last night, 100 pages in one shot (which I never do). I can't wait for the next one! You've done a man's job, sir.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

You've done a man's job, sir.

Nice Blade Runner nod.

Thanks, glad you liked the book.

 

[Stephen!]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

when Fletcher is needing a good shag, Hernandez mentions something like "going into your room and being your own best friend" or such like that.

Maybe Fletcher was hoping to get some from Hernandez

 

[Dayton Ward]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

 

[Chi'pok]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

I agree!

Loved the world building; wish we could have seen more about the first light galaxy...

the Caeliar are one of the most interesting races I've read about; also the name reminds me of my Latin studies. Caeli means heavens in Latin; so I take Caeliar to mean the Heavenly Ones or something like that; David, is that a reasonable guess? Also, I liked how confident Dax became.

overall, I loved it!!!

can't wait for Lost Souls! More, more!

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

^ Not a bad guess on the Latin. Thanks for your comments, and I hope Lost Souls continues to meet or exceed your expectations.

 

[Stephen!]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

One more thing that I forgot to add to my mini review is how I felt about the Borg invasion. It was absolutely chilling. 7,000 cubes! This is what I have been waiting for forever.

Somewhat overkill with the number of cubes committed to the destruction of the federation, but I guess the Borg aren't taking any chances. Or perhaps it's a slow day in the collective and most of those cubes aren't needed elsewhere in the galaxy.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

^ Well, the Borg aren't just trying to destroy the Federation; they also intend to eradicate or subjugate all the Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers in proximity to the UFP, which incluides the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Gorn, Breen, etc. A decisive win would give the Borg a major presence in previously troublesome part of the galaxy and serve as a springboard to further expansion.

 

[Chi'pok]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

Hi David; thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. I also wanted to mention regarding Axion (a very cool idea) that I was pleasantly reminded of James Blish's Cities in Flight stories from way back. I loved those stories also; similar world building going on.

again, thanks!

 

[JD]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

This isn't actually about Lost Souls, not Mere Mortals, but it's really not big enough to get a whole thread to itself.

Has anyone else here read the Lost Souls excerpt in Star Trek Magazine yet? I just did, and now I am more certain than ever that the Caeliar tie into the origin of the Borg.

 

[casey]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

This isn't actually about Lost Souls, not Mere Mortals, but it's really not big enough to get a whole thread to itself.

Has anyone else here read the Lost Souls excerpt in Star Trek Magazine yet? I just did, and now I am more certain than ever that the Caeliar tie into the origin of the Borg.

I haven't yet, so I will have to go out tomorrow and find it.

While I am still convinced that the Caeliar be related to the Borg, I did stumble upon something when I was going through the book again that might be problematic. On Page 110, second full paragraph from the bottom, Inyx explains to Hernandez: "Because the passage of our cities and the others in the past has resulted in no detectable change of the timeline, we have deduced that these events must have occurred in the timeline that we consider standard."

Now, I find it hard to think that the Caeliar hadn't noticed the huge difference in the timeline that there are suddenly millions of Borg running about assimilating everyone.

But, actually as I have been typing this, I am realizing that it isn't so problematic, because, after all, the book is Destiny. It does make sense that the Borg existed in the timeline before the city left, so perhaps the Caeliar didn't realize that they themselve were responsible. . . Which of itself seems odd as well. But the description of Lost Souls does use the term "Inescapable final destiny" or something like that.

Anyhow, just some possibly incoherent ramblings. . . But I think tying "destiny" into time travel makes sense. In Star Trek we often see the timeline before the change, and then after the change--but honestly does the "before" ever really happen?? (Yes, I watched Generations today, and am still hung up on the whole paradox).

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

^ Well, the Borg aren't just trying to destroy the Federation; they also intend to eradicate or subjugate all the Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers in proximity to the UFP, which incluides the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Gorn, Breen, etc. A decisive win would give the Borg a major presence in previously troublesome part of the galaxy and serve as a springboard to further expansion.

Let me just say, just the mere image of 7000 cubes pouring out of the tunnels was enough to make me fear the Borg once again, even if I hadn't already returned to that position in the previous book. It really hits home the idea that the Borg previously didn't consider the Federation a threat, just an annoyance.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

While I am still convinced that the Caeliar be related to the Borg, I did stumble upon something when I was going through the book again that might be problematic. On Page 110, second full paragraph from the bottom, Inyx explains to Hernandez: "Because the passage of our cities and the others in the past has resulted in no detectable change of the timeline, we have deduced that these events must have occurred in the timeline that we consider standard."

Now, I find it hard to think that the Caeliar hadn't noticed the huge difference in the timeline that there are suddenly millions of Borg running about assimilating everyone.

But that's the whole point of Inyx's statement -- that the event didn't alter the timeline, it recursively caused the events that were already part of the timeline. It's a "predestination paradox," like how the Enterprise going back in time and intercepting Gary Seven was just a part of how events in 1968 had "always" happened.

 

[casey]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

While I am still convinced that the Caeliar be related to the Borg, I did stumble upon something when I was going through the book again that might be problematic. On Page 110, second full paragraph from the bottom, Inyx explains to Hernandez: "Because the passage of our cities and the others in the past has resulted in no detectable change of the timeline, we have deduced that these events must have occurred in the timeline that we consider standard."

Now, I find it hard to think that the Caeliar hadn't noticed the huge difference in the timeline that there are suddenly millions of Borg running about assimilating everyone.

But that's the whole point of Inyx's statement -- that the event didn't alter the timeline, it recursively caused the events that were already part of the timeline. It's a "predestination paradox," like how the Enterprise going back in time and intercepting Gary Seven was just a part of how events in 1968 had "always" happened.

And definitely see it that way now. Originally though I was reading it as "We and the other cities managed to lay low and as far as we can tell our travels had no effect on the timeline AT ALL."

Which I see isn't the case, and as I tried to express in my post I really appreciate seeing. It is nice to not see the "before" and "after" version of time travel. . .Just that things are as they are.

This is all, assuming of course, that the initial assumption that somehow the Caeliar gave rise to the Borg is correct, which I am sure you will neither confirm nor deny

 

[wew]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

He probably could, but then he'd have to kill you, so you wouldn't be able to read the book.

I'm awaiting the arrival of the book, if all goes well, it supposed to arrive today.

 

[Julio Angel Ortiz]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

One more thing that I forgot to add to my mini review is how I felt about the Borg invasion. It was absolutely chilling. 7,000 cubes! This is what I have been waiting for forever.

Somewhat overkill with the number of cubes committed to the destruction of the federation, but I guess the Borg aren't taking any chances. Or perhaps it's a slow day in the collective and most of those cubes aren't needed elsewhere in the galaxy.

To quote Morpheus from The Matrix Reloaded: "Sentinel for every man, woman, and child in Zion. That sounds *exactly* like the thinking of a machine to me."

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

But that's the whole point of Inyx's statement -- that the event didn't alter the timeline, it recursively caused the events that were already part of the timeline. It's a "predestination paradox," like how the Enterprise going back in time and intercepting Gary Seven was just a part of how events in 1968 had "always" happened.

I think the preferred term is "self-consistent causal loop."

 

[Ben]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Mere Mortals - SPOILER Thread

That was RIDICULOUSLY good! Holy crap!

I think I'm the only one that isn't sick of the Borg. I was only sick of lame Borg. But you guys have done a great job of making the Borg scary again, starting with PAD's book.

The underlying dread of the Borg through the Destiny trilogy is outstanding. Their victory seems completely inevitable.

Question for David Mack, though he really shouldn't answer it:

Spoiler: Destiny Book 2

Is the fact that Seven suggested evacuating the galaxy while, in another part of the story, aliens exist with technology that can transport whole systems across the universe significant? Or is that just a coincidence?"