Supernatural 4x7 "It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester" spoilers

[Dorian Thompson]

Okay folks, here's the discussion/spoiler thread for tonight's episode. My computer is on the fritz, so I won't be able to get online tonight. adds several curse words Mswood, I'm counting on you to keep it going, buddy. I may not be able to get back online until Monday. Figures, with a kick ass episode like this coming up. I'm so mad I could spit. Castiel is officially back, along with a new angel who's far less nice, Uriel. It's Robert Wisdom from "The Wire."

Uriel the destroying angel

Uriel doesn't sound particularly pleasant, nice, or chatty. Calling humans "mud monkeys," "plumbing on two legs," and the like." Castiel is getting upset with him, and Cass isn't particularly touchy and Roma Downey feely himself.

In other good news for Castiel fans, Misha did an interview with the Chicago Tribune (Maureen Ryan is a recent convert to fandom) and he said to her that they're officially negotiating for him to do a few more episodes after the initial six he was supposed to appear in, so he must have been very well received. They're actually willing to spend money. Hey, that's a significant development for the CW. The real life Misha Collins is funny as hell, btw. He actually spent time in a Tibetan monastery. He's "deep," as they say.

 

[species5618]

I've already seen this episode--I work at a TV station that airs Supernatural (so we get it on tape earlier today), and all I have to say is that opening teaser made me squirm...ugh.

Seems like a cool show, I might have to start watching from the first season.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

It made you squirm, huh? Was it delightfully gross? That's our Supernatural. You missed a fun ep last season where a poor unsuspecting dude bit into a hamburger full of maggots, and may I say that the special effects department does excellent work on a low budget? Hee hee hee.... Then there was the cannibalistic episode only 3 weeks ago where the victim was nice and gooey and....lip smackingly good. The Parents Television Council did a "shame on you" citation for that eppy.

BTW, here's the link to the interview with Misha about negotiating for more episodes. He sounds like it's a done deal.

The Watcher

Oh, and Uriel played "Bunny Colvin" on The Wire for those who are familiar. Man....I can't believe I won't have internet access tonight. Arrrrrggghhh!!!

 

[species5618]

The only other episode I've seen was one where the brother with the short hair (Dean?) went back in time (to the 1970's I think) and he was dealing with a young version of his mom. Mitch Pileggi was in it, but I was quickly ingesting it into our archive so I couldn't watch it too closely--it seemed pretty cool too. Guess I may have to pick up the DVD's...I'd try watching it at work, but unfortunately we only started airing it this year, so we only have the first 7 eps. of season 4 available.

Does it have a bit of a Buffy/Angel vibe to it? Perhaps a little less self-referential, but some humour to it? I sort of got that feeling, but as I'm only watching parts of the episodes it's hard to tell.

 

[Garibaldi O'brien]

I've just started watching this show last season, but it really seems to be getting better and better. I'm enjoying this whole "Angel" arc quite a bit.

Oh Great Pumpkin, bring us some marvelous gore.

 

[mswood]

The only other episode I've seen was one where the brother with the short hair (Dean?) went back in time (to the 1970's I think) and he was dealing with a young version of his mom. Mitch Pileggi was in it, but I was quickly ingesting it into our archive so I couldn't watch it too closely--it seemed pretty cool too. Guess I may have to pick up the DVD's...I'd try watching it at work, but unfortunately we only started airing it this year, so we only have the first 7 eps. of season 4 available.

Does it have a bit of a Buffy/Angel vibe to it? Perhaps a little less self-referential, but some humour to it? I sort of got that feeling, but as I'm only watching parts of the episodes it's hard to tell.

THat episode was absolutely awesome, but probably much more so if you know the characters and their history.

As to humor, teh show features a far more realistic handle of humor for the most part.

The character Dean (yes the short haired one) is basically a good hearted smart ass. So even in it's dramatic episode he usually adds a bit of humor.

But the show (sort of like many seasons of the X-Files) does typically two comedy episodes. Episodes that ted to be more humor then drama (or at the very least more light hearted).

While I loved Buffy and Angel, the humor at times took me out of the episodes as it really seemed as the characters never took their situations in a serious manner (hence the camp). Here the humor is far more in character of a show that is a kick ass action show thats quite dramatic.

 

[Vendikarr]

Another great episode. And my favorite quote of the night:

Sam: People used to wear masks to hide from him. I took a shot.
Dean: YOU TOOK A SHOT?

I love these angels. There's no Michael Landon here. Castiel is an angel with doubts about what's right? Could he be an angel who turns to the dark side?

And I don't doubt for a second that Uriel would dust Sam in the blink of an eye. He seems like one of those arrogant angels that has a problem with the creator loving humanity the way he does. I guess it's ok if he hates humanity as long as he does his job. I guess that's the difference between angels like Uriel and Lucifer.

Next weeks episode looks like another stand-alone. Hopefully it's better than last week.

 

[mswood]

Oh yeah, now that, thats more like it. I loved it. NOt as good as a few episodes this season but damn near. The ending was especially interesting.

One thing, last week when Dean saw a flash of YED (after he was cured) I said it wasn't a very good spot for it to occur.

Now this episode, this episode had a great place for it.

We see Sam really pushing himself, pushing his abilities and all for good. With Dean watching that would have been the perfect spot to show just a flash of yellow.

Nice to see both Castiel and Uriel (very nice casting job SN, damn keep up the good work), and to see their differences. Also nice for Dean (and for that matter Sam) to see how much fire and brimstone those angels do have.

It really paints and interesting picture for both Dean and Sa. For Dean because he is told how wrong what Sam is doing. But he does know Sam is saving people. ANd lets face it, saving people is a concept that Dean gets. He gets that deep to his core. And we see two angels willing to eliminate a whole town. Dean has to be questioning how can what Sam is doing be so much worse.

For Sam, its sort of the same but also not. He has had faith, on though he is the first to ever mention that God angels good be warriors, I don't think he ever really expected such cold ruthless machinations.

Also interesting is that at first with Uriel when he moves, Sam seems to be able to track him. It does make me wonder if Sam (unlike Dean) could see their true image. THough of course when he departs he doesn't immediately track him, so who knows.

Nice to see the conversation (open and honest from Sam) about the fact that he might need to use his abilities to save the town. I liked it.

Of course we have one honest brother now,, so of course the other one is now holding back. Par for the course with the boys.

A-.

God, I love this season. Though in fairness I think last seasons episode was better (a first so far), but I made no qualms about how much I loved Fresh Blood.

And sorry razor blade into in the mouth (how awesome was that, yeah you eat that candy Dean), Sam decapitating Gordon is one of my favorite moments of gore, ever. It also has two of my favorite brother moments of all time, and good old whack job Gordon (equally well cast). If they could have erased Bela it would have been a perfect episode.

Oh and the impala egged, so so wrong. I think that was one of the seals being broken right there. Maybe the town did deserved to be eliminated, after all.

 

[Skywalker]

Best season ever! Just about every episode has been an A for me (with last week being the exception). I can't wait to see how they develop Dean's role as the agent of Heaven--and what exactly God has planned for him if He's testing Dean's judgment during "battle." Frankly, being a Dean fan, I'm happy to see that he seems the be "the one" this season instead of Sam. I was getting a little tired of Sam and his stupid "destiny."

And is it bad that when Sam was trying to exorcise Samhain, I pictured an ethereal Obi-Wan urging him to use the Force?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Oh and the impala egged, so so wrong. I think that was one of the seals being broken right there. Maybe the town did deserved to be eliminated, after all.

"AS-TRO-NAUT!!!!!"

This is the episode that really sold me on Castiel, I hadn't been all that impressed so far but this episode did the trick. I liked his associate as well.

I was also struck with how far Jared and his character have come since the early days.

That razor blade POV shot from inside the mouth was killer, kudos to the creative team.

 

[mswood]

Fast Nationals are out and damn we did good. 3.53 million and a 1.5 in adults 18-49. Thats better then any performance last year. Third best eprformance of this year, and the best performance its had with normal programming on all five networks.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

WAAAAA!!! My computer is still broken!! I'm catching some time in the break room at work.

Oh yeah, that was excellent. Now I seen what you mean about that beginning scene making you squirm. That inside the mouth point of view for the razor blade was skeevy....blech!! Oh Dean--now I'm more sure than ever what's coming. He became adept at torturing souls while in hell. If it really was like 40 years in hell for him, he had no hope, and it's tortured or be victimized...wouldn't any human being break eventually? 40 years. That's a long, long time to suffer. It makes sense. I'm here in the pit forever and it's torture or be tortured. It also makes sense in light of Castiel's sensing that Dean didn't think he deserved to be saved when they met at the end of "Lazarus Rising."

What's the matter?.....You don't think you deserve to be saved.

The human Dean would be very disturbed at what he'd done. It's in his subconscious, but he can't bring himself to remember. It's why he got infected with yellow fever. Oh yes. And how awesome was Sam taking out Samhain? How awesome is the casting of Castiel and Uriel, period?

Loved it. Did you say 3.53 million? Excellent. And, of course, Ausiello reported in his column that Dawn O is pushing for an increase from 24 to 25 episode for Gossip Girl, and she wants to increase 90210 from 22 to 24. She's absolutely determined to push the teen slut crap. Whole audience numbers be damned, she and the other suits are going after that teeny bopper with boobies demo until the network goes under. I love it that Supernatural performs better, but--not with the right age group.

EDIT--Cool, some of the more religious fans are getting offended by the depiction of angels. Excellent. Controversy. I'm so glad I'm a Unitarian Universalist. We can go with the flow.

 

[Othello]

That was a good epeiode. I liked the Tension between Castiel and Sam. I wonder if Sam can send ngels back to Heaven??

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

An intriguing episode with Castiel and Uriel bumping heads with sam and Dean. I knew it had to be a summoning to break another seal before it was said. I could see the Sam-using-his-powers moment coming but it wasn't in time to save the seal. Uriel beating down Sam at the end along with castiel hinting about Dean's future role both provide jumping off points further down the road. So far i think it's the best season of the 4.

 

[3D Master]

I must say, I'm not very impressed with Samhain, though.

A demon? A mere demon? A mere UNDERLING demon at that? A mere seal? Hell, an entity all together?

Samhain simply means Summer's End. It's a day, it's Halloween, October 31, and it's not an entity. The gods holding sway over the day, were often the gods of death and rejuvination.

So if Samhain was an entity, he'd have to be a Pagan God at least, not some mere demon, just one puzzle piece to unleash Lucifer. Samhain would be every bit a world breaker, and lord of an underworld himself.

I also don't get why any witch would be doing Lilth's bidding apparently, yet not treat her and Lucifer, but Samhain as their great old master.

I mean, how cool would it have been after Dean's attempt to make light of the situation Sam goes:

Sam: Dean, this thing isn't some demon, he's a Pagan God, and not like a trickster or minor weather god either. This guy would spank Lilith up and down the street with both hands tied behind his back. This guy gets loose, and we don't have to worry about 66 seals and Lucifer. He'll bring hell to Earth all by himself.

Dean: You're kidding me, right?

The drama of the episode though: top notch.

 

[Skywalker]

That would kind of lessen the threat of Lucifer breaking loose, though. Samhain wasn't just a generic demon, anyway, based on his eyes and the difficulty Sam had in exorcising him.

 

[3D Master]

Then use another demon; but not the Pagan holiday of Samhain, this was the day the principle male god died, to be reborn at the Winter Solstice. So the god of death that held sway over Samhain had in essence on that day the power to kill god.

That isn't a simple demon.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Did you not actually watch the episode? He wasn't a "mere demon." He was a "world breaker." It was talked about quite plainly and directly and you must have either been taking a piss or just watching long enough to complain about it if you missed it. They were just able to stop him before he was able to achieve his full power.

Hell, there was a reason not one angel but an angel and a archangel (yes, Uriel is an archangel) were willing to purify an entire town to stop his coming.

 

[Skywalker]

Hell, there was a reason not one angel but an angel and a archangel (yes, Uriel is an archangel) were willing to purify an entire town to stop his coming.

Based on his comments to Dean at the end, I'm not entirely sure Castiel was willing to purify the town and sacrifice all those human lives. He would have done it if Dean had given the order, but unlike Uriel, I don't think he would have enjoyed it.

 

[3D Master]

Did you not actually watch the episode? He wasn't a "mere demon." He was a "world breaker." It was talked about quite plainly and directly and you must have either been taking a piss or just watching long enough to complain about it if you missed it. They were just able to stop him before he was able to achieve his full power.

He wasn't a world breaker, he had a little power, and could raise some havoc, but he wasn't world breaker. At the end of the day, he was just a demon.

Hell, there was a reason not one angel but an angel and a archangel (yes, Uriel is an archangel) were willing to purify an entire town to stop his coming.

Yeah, he was one of the 66 seals that if broken will release Lucifer. Aka, he's a flunky.