World War On Earth In Post ST:TNG Era?

[Dayton3]

Lets say that Earths world government broke apart in the post ST:TNG era and that different alliances and coalitions squared off against one another.

What would a world war look like in this time period?

Assume that all sides have dappening fields of some kind to prevent nuclear or antimatter detonations.

Assume that the Federation orders Starfleet to blockade the planet and not allow any weapons or soldiers to flow in. and Starfleet does not allow the use of orbital weapons by either side.

Essentially confining the war to the Earth and its atmosphere.

What do you think such a war would be like?

 

[Timo]

If Starfleet just waits for it to play out, without interfering in any manner, the war will probably be mainly fought with handguns, knives and fists. All the serious weaponry seems to be in Starfleet hands after all.

If, OTOH, Starfleet takes sides, then orbital weapons are suddenly back in the picture, no two ways about it...

But I'd expect Starfleet to play peacekeeper anyway, if it bothers to do a blockade. And starships could intercept just about any vehicle attempting to go from A to a reasonably distant B in order to do damage there. So missiles and aircraft would probably be shot down, ground vehicle formations stopped by digging deep ditches around them, infantry formations stunned, and in general all military action above local small-arms insurgencies terminated on short notice.

Which would probably mean that if one faction really wanted to hurt another, it would release selectively genocidal agents in the atmosphere or water, or sabotage replicator networks, or use transporters to scramble the enemy; stuff that cannot be intercepted with orbital phasers. At which point Starfleet might go from reacting to proacting, and retort in kind: "Stop this nonsense or we'll turn everybody who wears your type of armband into a frog with our bioagent".

I can't really see any planet fight a "war" within planetary confines when starships are in the neighborhood. A "prolonged riot", perhaps, like on Turkana IV. But the notion of continent A attacking continent B in any sort of a conventional manner sounds antiquated in the Trek environment.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dayton3]

Starfleet has shown little inclination in the past to get involved in planetary conflicts.

Prime Directive and all.

and couldn't people on Earth simply replicate weapons on a large scale?

Given what 24th century replicators are capable of, how difficult would it be to have them replicate modernized versions of the equivalent of Abrams tanks?

Plus, given what we've seen the holodeck do, they could very quickly train soldiers by using holodecks to expose them to ultra realistic combat situations.

 

[Timo]

Starfleet has shown little inclination in the past to get involved in planetary conflicts. Prime Directive and all.

I don't see them stopping from using force when the target is a Federation world, though. The PD has only ever applied to foreign planets and star empires, after all.

Okay, so Starfleet stayed out of Turkana IV after the mutiny there. But only because the lawless planet was too insignificant to bother with. Starfleet didn't have any obligation to stand off - our TNG heroes readily barged in guns blazing when they had the motivation, and there clearly was no legal or political obstacle to doing so.

Earth would be a different matter. Putting down a mutiny there would be a major priority!

And couldn't people on Earth simply replicate weapons on a large scale? Given what 24th century replicators are capable of, how difficult would it be to have them replicate modernized versions of the equivalent of Abrams tanks?

They'd have to do a bit of hacking first, I guess. Certain weapon patterns are illegal and not easily obtained, as we learned in DS9 "Field of Fire".

Plus, given what we've seen the holodeck do, they could very quickly train soldiers by using holodecks to expose them to ultra realistic combat situations.

Indeed. But would they get instant soldiers, or instant shell shock cases?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kissthestar]

Lets say that Earths world government broke apart in the post ST:TNG era and that different alliances and coalitions squared off against one another.

What would a world war look like in this time period?

Assume that all sides have dappening fields of some kind to prevent nuclear or antimatter detonations.

Assume that the Federation orders Starfleet to blockade the planet and not allow any weapons or soldiers to flow in. and Starfleet does not allow the use of orbital weapons by either side.

Essentially confining the war to the Earth and its atmosphere.

What do you think such a war would be like?

We know from the TNG pilot the troops are gonna be stoned!

 

[Dayton3]

Lets say that Earths world government broke apart in the post ST:TNG era and that different alliances and coalitions squared off against one another.

What would a world war look like in this time period?

Assume that all sides have dappening fields of some kind to prevent nuclear or antimatter detonations.

Assume that the Federation orders Starfleet to blockade the planet and not allow any weapons or soldiers to flow in. and Starfleet does not allow the use of orbital weapons by either side.

Essentially confining the war to the Earth and its atmosphere.

What do you think such a war would be like?

We know from the TNG pilot the troops are gonna be stoned!

Well, that was 21st century technology.

I'm looking at 300 years later.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I would imagine that, in a situation like Earth, the Federation (and starfleet) would intervene. If they don't for some reason, it's hard to imagine any kind of traditional war. More like a planetary government and some kind of terrorist/revolutionary force trying to undermine it. After two centuries of apparently peaceful unity, it's hard to imagine that the division will be based on old national boundaries, so I think that it would have to be some kind of ideological cause that doesn't follow borders.

In that kind of situation, it could be an internal Earth problem and starfleet would stay out unless there is a very good reason (not necessarily prime directive, but respect for internal autonomy). Then again, there doesn't seem to be much respect for internal autonomy with Earth if Paradise Lost is anything to go by.

 

[Dayton3]

What if an underlying backstory of the war became the resurgence of nationalism among the old nations of Earth?

 

[Solariabsg25]

But Earth isn't just any colony or planet, it's the Capital of the Federation.

Starfleet will get involved and put down any "national" forces - period.

Any fighting planet-wide could involve or damage Starfleet assets, so Starfleet would do anything to protect them.

It's like saying that Washington DC is suddenly engulfed with city-wide strife, but the Feds have to keep out cos it's an internal matter.

A Colony World, that perhaps declares independance, then yeah possibly, unless humanitarian issues over-ride Starfleet keeping out of it. But no way the planet containing Star Fleet HQ.

 

[Borg451]

Who would be fighting who? its like Modern Countrys that are in the past were many smaller States and have become such intertwined that you wouldnt have any part of it break off and have a war..

Earth is like that in 24th Century..

 

[Dayton3]

In one story outline I had, Earth suffered a lot during a Borg attack.

Certain areas were severely damaged.

The people of nations that were not damaged began to resent the massive amounts of aid and assistance flowing to the damaged regions.

While the damaged regions of Earth felt the other areas were not doing enough to assist them.

Basic regional jealousy resulting in a resurgence of nationalism.

 

[Pavonis]

The people of nations that were not damaged began to resent the massive amounts of aid and assistance flowing to the damaged regions.

While the damaged regions of Earth felt the other areas were not doing enough to assist them.

Doesn't sound anything like 24th century humans to me.

Given 24th century technology, how would providing aid be a drain on the resources of the undamaged regions? All supplies can be replicated and transported near-instantaneously.

 

[Dayton3]

The people of nations that were not damaged began to resent the massive amounts of aid and assistance flowing to the damaged regions.

While the damaged regions of Earth felt the other areas were not doing enough to assist them.

Doesn't sound anything like 24th century humans to me.

Given 24th century technology, how would providing aid be a drain on the resources of the undamaged regions? All supplies can be replicated and transported near-instantaneously.

You know that it would never work that way. Even with Star Treks miracle technology.

It certainly wasn't working with the Cardassians when the Federation was sending them aid to help recover from the Klingon Invasion.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Who would be fighting who? its like Modern Countrys that are in the past were many smaller States and have become such intertwined that you wouldnt have any part of it break off and have a war..

Earth is like that in 24th Century..

Earth has a world government (United Earth) in Trek's time, but the old national boundaries didn't cease to exist. Nations like the US, England, France, etc. are still existing as distinct entities.

And some nations even today can fall into civil war quite easily.

 

[Pavonis]

The people of nations that were not damaged began to resent the massive amounts of aid and assistance flowing to the damaged regions.

While the damaged regions of Earth felt the other areas were not doing enough to assist them.

Doesn't sound anything like 24th century humans to me.

Given 24th century technology, how would providing aid be a drain on the resources of the undamaged regions? All supplies can be replicated and transported near-instantaneously.

You know that it would never work that way. Even with Star Treks miracle technology.

It certainly wasn't working with the Cardassians when the Federation was sending them aid to help recover from the Klingon Invasion.

But supposedly all of Cardassian territory was equally affected by the invasion. Your scenario has only segments of one planet suffering. Surely the unafflicted regions would have their replicators up-and-running to provide aid. And transporters would certainly work for moving aid supplies from one region to another instantaneously.

Besides, how is a "damaged region" that needs aid going to fight a war at all? If they're fighting, they have supplies; if they have supplies, they don't need aid; if they don't need aid, why are they fighting?

 

[Dayton3]

Doesn't sound anything like 24th century humans to me.

Given 24th century technology, how would providing aid be a drain on the resources of the undamaged regions? All supplies can be replicated and transported near-instantaneously.

You know that it would never work that way. Even with Star Treks miracle technology.

It certainly wasn't working with the Cardassians when the Federation was sending them aid to help recover from the Klingon Invasion.

But supposedly all of Cardassian territory was equally affected by the invasion. Your scenario has only segments of one planet suffering. Surely the unafflicted regions would have their replicators up-and-running to provide aid. And transporters would certainly work for moving aid supplies from one region to another instantaneously.

Besides, how is a "damaged region" that needs aid going to fight a war at all? If they're fighting, they have supplies; if they have supplies, they don't need aid; if they don't need aid, why are they fighting?

Replicators don't run on air you know.

I don't know why it is so hard to conceive of a war on Earth in the 24th century.

 

[Pavonis]

Replicators don't run on air you know.

I don't know why it is so hard to conceive of a war on Earth in the 24th century.

Of course not. But energy in the 24th century is plentiful; matter-antimatter reactors exist, fusion power is commonplace, and surely solar power from orbit is easy to come by. There should be plenty of power for replicators to provide aid. Does your scenario call for the reduction of Earth to pre-20th century conditions? What level of devastation are you imagining?

Frankly, the most incredulous part of the scenario, for me, is the thought that humans of the 24th century would actually resent helping each other.

 

[JoeZhang]

Who would be fighting who? its like Modern Countrys that are in the past were many smaller States and have become such intertwined that you wouldnt have any part of it break off and have a war..

Earth is like that in 24th Century..

Earth has a world government (United Earth) in Trek's time, but the old national boundaries didn't cease to exist. Nations like the US, England, France, etc. are still existing as distinct entities.

I'm not sure we can come to this conclusion, we know the names are still used but we don't really know what it defines beyond geographic areas who's borders we can't define. I'm sure Riker has a line like "what used to be the United States of America".

I'm also not sure how nationalism can exist in a world where people can work in one city and live in another on the other side of the world and go out to a third for dinner and have complete freedom of movement.

Defining yourself as a citizen of a certain area must seen like something out of the Stone Ages. Picard was quite happy with his french heritage but can anyone see Picard or any other character fighting in a regional war between france and england?

It would make as much sense as me fighting my neighbours in the next street over.

 

[JoeZhang]

Replicators don't run on air you know.

I don't know why it is so hard to conceive of a war on Earth in the 24th century.

Of course not. But energy in the 24th century is plentiful; matter-antimatter reactors exist, fusion power is commonplace, and surely solar power from orbit is easy to come by. There should be plenty of power for replicators to provide aid. Does your scenario call for the reduction of Earth to pre-20th century conditions? What level of devastation are you imagining?

Frankly, the most incredulous part of the scenario, for me, is the thought that humans of the 24th century would actually resent helping each other.

Indeed, wars are generally about population pressures or resources - what's to fight over?

 

[Dayton3]

Replicators don't run on air you know.

I don't know why it is so hard to conceive of a war on Earth in the 24th century.

Of course not. But energy in the 24th century is plentiful; matter-antimatter reactors exist, fusion power is commonplace, and surely solar power from orbit is easy to come by. quote]

What makes you think energy in the 24th century is plentiful.

The U.S. is the richest country on Earth.

We build the largest warships on Earth (Nimitz class carriers) which run on nuclear power and have plenty of energy.

The U.S. still has considerable energy problems of its own though.

Not to mention.

Antimatter is not a primary fuel source. It must be manufactured. According to the ST:TNG Technical Manual (which IIRC is a canon source) antimatter is valuable. Which must by definition mean that it must be rare in relation to demand.