My review of "Kobayashi Maru" [SPOILERS!]

[Trippy]

^didn't Trip call out those names of the engineers when he was on Columbia? I'll have to watch Affliction again, but I think he does when he's calling them out on not having the engine up to scratch and having not left spacedock on time.

ETA: Just checked. He does indeed name those engineers "Biggs, Pierce and Rivers and Strong"

 

[Stevil2001]

EDIT: Never mind, missed the above comment on the next page.

 

[JD]

And the four named engineers, including Seth MacFarlane's character.

Probably named only in the script, and in the credits, yes? That's what I meant. But I think most of the characters in the book were fleshed out or created by Mack, and then used by Andy and Mike in KM. Actually, here's what Andy and Mike say in the acknowledgments for KM:

"David Mack, for the extensive work he did on the aforementioned trilogy in creating the Columbia crew members, which allowed us to debut them in these pages"

Oh, I must have missed that when I skimmed through the acknowledgments earlier.

 

[Sci]

Finally finished Kobayashi Maru. The end was a bit sudden, but I really do like the cliffhanger -- a wonderful novel, and a worthy followup to the great The Good That Men Do!

I often notice really minor pieces of minutiae and like to discuss them, so, hey, if you do too, great, if not, just ignore me.

Some notes:

- I didn't MIND the "What the Fuck?" bit, but I just thought it was gratuitous. I didn't think it needed to be there, but whatever.

- In Vanguard: Summon the Thunder, the Klingon double agent muses that homosexuality is a violation of Klingon sexual traditions, but here, we see that Admiral Krell, a politically high-ranking admiral over one hundred years earlier, has a husband. I LIKE seeing homosexuality associated with these tough, macho characters, actually -- I think it helps fight the stereotype of the "sissy" -- but that might be a continuity issue.

- Minutiae: United Earth's capital finally established. Cool beans. Not the city I would have picked, but I like it.

- Minutiae: There's a reference to Starfleet having to alert the "United Earth Council" about something. I'm wondering what the UE Council is -- is it the legislature (referred to as the United Earth Parliament in A Less Perfect Union)? Maybe it's one house of the UE legislature? Or perhaps it's the formal name for the Prime Minister's cabinet? Or maybe it's an advisory body to the Prime Minister? Side note: I think that the term "council" is over-used for the various political bodies we see in Trek -- I don't care about "stygian" -- so I did groan a bit when I saw that.

- I liked the depiction of the Coalition and its Security Council. Very UN-ish. Although, I'm forced to wonder why the Andorians and Vulcans are letting their Foreign Ministers -- senior members of their government -- spend all their time on Earth instead of designating an ambassador to the Coalition. After all, most countries don't just send their foreign ministers to United Nations Headquarters all the time -- they designate ambassadors to the UN. (Similarly, I find myself wondering why Prime Minister Samuels and Interior Minister al-Rashid seem to be the only people in the UE government -- though I can accept the idea that because of UE's relative interstellar youth and the proximity of Coalition HQ to the Prime Minister's office that the PM would just represent Earth himself.)

- Interesting how Alpha Centauri has apparently already become politically independent of United Earth before this novel begins. I wonder what this says about the various allusions we've had in Martin & Mangels' novels to the Martian rebellion against Earth rule?

- The name of the Vulcan state is established to be "the Confederacy of Vulcan." That made me smile -- did they get that from Memory Beta? And T'Pau, after only being referred to as "minister" in The Good That Men Do, is firmly established as First Minister.

- I notice that Andy Mangels' bio at the end mentioned that he lives with his partner but made no mention of their "chosen son" this time around. If it's not too personal, can I ask if anyone knows if something happened there...?

 

[Dayton Ward]

- In Vanguard: Summon the Thunder, the Klingon double agent muses that homosexuality is a violation of Klingon sexual traditions...

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't recall any such passage from STT.

 

[Sci]

- In Vanguard: Summon the Thunder, the Klingon double agent muses that homosexuality is a violation of Klingon sexual traditions...

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't recall any such passage from STT.

Hmm. It was either Summon the Thunder or Reap the Whirlwind, then. If you don't remember any such passage, might have been the latter.

 

[Christopher]

- In Vanguard: Summon the Thunder, the Klingon double agent muses that homosexuality is a violation of Klingon sexual traditions, but here, we see that Admiral Krell, a politically high-ranking admiral over one hundred years earlier, has a husband. I LIKE seeing homosexuality associated with these tough, macho characters, actually -- I think it helps fight the stereotype of the "sissy" -- but that might be a continuity issue.

A culture can change a lot in a hundred years. Look how much more tolerant our culture has become in just thirty years, let alone a hundred. But it can go backward, too; cultures can become more prejudiced over time. Perhaps, in the wake of the virus that created the "smoothie" Klingons, the Klingon culture became more intolerant of differences as a reaction to that.

- The name of the Vulcan state is established to be "the Confederacy of Vulcan." That made me smile -- did they get that from Memory Beta?

I assumed it was an allusion to Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual and its "Planetary Confederation of 40 Eridani."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

- In Vanguard: Summon the Thunder, the Klingon double agent muses that homosexuality is a violation of Klingon sexual traditions, but here, we see that Admiral Krell, a politically high-ranking admiral over one hundred years earlier, has a husband. I LIKE seeing homosexuality associated with these tough, macho characters, actually -- I think it helps fight the stereotype of the "sissy" -- but that might be a continuity issue.

A culture can change a lot in a hundred years. Look how much more tolerant our culture has become in just thirty years, let alone a hundred. But it can go backward, too; cultures can become more prejudiced over time. Perhaps, in the wake of the virus that created the "smoothie" Klingons, the Klingon culture became more intolerant of differences as a reaction to that.

Quite.

Since Krell *is* a QuchHa', then that may have something to do with it; he may have been used as a scapegoat, as it were.

 

[Rush Limborg]

- I liked the depiction of the Coalition and its Security Council. Very UN-ish. Although, I'm forced to wonder why the Andorians and Vulcans are letting their Foreign Ministers -- senior members of their government -- spend all their time on Earth instead of designating an ambassador to the Coalition. After all, most countries don't just send their foreign ministers to United Nations Headquarters all the time -- they designate ambassadors to the UN. (Similarly, I find myself wondering why Prime Minister Samuels and Interior Minister al-Rashid seem to be the only people in the UE government -- though I can accept the idea that because of UE's relative interstellar youth and the proximity of Coalition HQ to the Prime Minister's office that the PM would just represent Earth himself.)

Didn't Good That Men Do say something about the Coalition being based on NATO, rather than the UN?

Hmm. It was either Summon the Thunder or Reap the Whirlwind, then. If you don't remember any such passage, might have been the latter.

Neither. It was in the first Vanguard. Harbringer, was it? Very last chapter, I think?

 

[Sci]

- I liked the depiction of the Coalition and its Security Council. Very UN-ish. Although, I'm forced to wonder why the Andorians and Vulcans are letting their Foreign Ministers -- senior members of their government -- spend all their time on Earth instead of designating an ambassador to the Coalition. After all, most countries don't just send their foreign ministers to United Nations Headquarters all the time -- they designate ambassadors to the UN. (Similarly, I find myself wondering why Prime Minister Samuels and Interior Minister al-Rashid seem to be the only people in the UE government -- though I can accept the idea that because of UE's relative interstellar youth and the proximity of Coalition HQ to the Prime Minister's office that the PM would just represent Earth himself.)

Didn't Good That Men Do say something about the Coalition being based on NATO, rather than the UN?

Actually, yeah, it's probably more accurate to compare the Coalition to NATO in terms of its function, but I was thinking specifically in terms of the extreme difficulties the Coalition has in organizing a coherent response amongst its members.

Hmm. It was either Summon the Thunder or Reap the Whirlwind, then. If you don't remember any such passage, might have been the latter.

Neither. It was in the first Vanguard. Harbringer, was it? Very last chapter, I think?

It was Vanguard and it was the Klingon double agent musing about how not only had she fallen in love with the enemy, but she was breaking tradition by loving a woman.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ You're right; it was in Harbinger, though not the last chapter. I found it in Ch18, page 332:

Sandesjo savored the irony that not only had she forsaken Klingon tradition for the touch of another woman, but that of all the woman she might have loved she had lost her heart to a Vulcan.

Eh. forsaking "Klingon traditions" could mean anything. There are any number of ways to explain the apparent discrepancy between the two books.

 

[Stevil2001]

It could easily be that female homosexuality is unacceptable, whereas male homosexuality is fine.

 

[Rush Limborg]

It could easily be that female homosexuality is unacceptable, whereas male homosexuality is fine.

Talk about a double standard....

 

[Sci]

It could easily be that female homosexuality is unacceptable, whereas male homosexuality is fine.

Talk about a double standard....

What's that? The Klingons not believing in equality of the sexes?

Never!

 

[PaulSimpson]

It could easily be that female homosexuality is unacceptable, whereas male homosexuality is fine.

Talk about a double standard....

There's precedent - lesbianism wasn't outlawed in England at the same time as male homosexuality, supposedly because the then Queen, Victoria, didn't believe it happened. This is probably one of those urban myths but...

P

 

[Trent Roman]

Or even the modern porn industry, where bisexual actresses and lesbian scenes are included in most mainstream films, whereas male bi/homosexuality is confined to its particular niche.

Creditorly yours, the Rent Woman

 

[8of5]

- The name of the Vulcan state is established to be "the Confederacy of Vulcan." That made me smile -- did they get that from Memory Beta?

I assumed it was an allusion to Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual and its "Planetary Confederation of 40 Eridani."

There was a bit of a kafuffle a while ago on MB over what to name the article, as there are a few different names for the Vulcan state; the Technical Manual's "Planetary Confederation of 40 Eridani", "Confederacy of Vulcan" from a FASA book apparently, and "Confederacy of Surak" in Star Charts. We finally settled on Confederacy of Vulcan, kind of because we agreed it was the nicest sounding one...

 

[Timo]

Klingon dos and don'ts probably change as often as their Chancellors do. Whether a woman could serve in the High Council would no doubt be up to the whims of the person or group in power, and we already canonically see the vacillation in TNG. For something to be taboo there, it need not be time-honored: tradition today might be very different from tradition yesterday, and woe to those who fail to notice the shift of winds in time, or preferably ahead of time.

Is Alpha Centauri a recently founded colony in the book? Or does it perhaps predate ENT by decades? Centuries, even? If settlements there were old, they would probably start out independent, what with communications with Earth being so difficult.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JD]

I'm reading KM right now, and from the way everything is handled I've been given the impression that Alpha Centauri has already been around for a while.

 

[Christopher]

I'm reading KM right now, and from the way everything is handled I've been given the impression that Alpha Centauri has already been around for a while.

Well, yes. We know from canon that Zefram Cochrane lived on Alpha Centauri, so the colony must've been set up in his (known) lifetime, and that means sometime before 2119 -- but after 2078, when Terra Nova, the first human extrasolar colony, was founded.