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[Spoilers] Review - Myriad Universe Bk 2: Echoes and Refractions

Indeed, well played. I wasn't agreeing with you-I merely see your point and concede that in your eyes it was the right choice. Bottom line-I am grateful for any new Trek along these lines. You did good overall in your picks and I'm happy to have spent the $ on both MyU books. By my opinionated rating you went 4.5 for 6, which isn't a bad track record for this kind of thing. I own anthologies that were lucky to include one excellent story and you beat that all to hell. Now, enough of this silly chit-chat. Shouldn't you be looking into a Vol. 3?;) Perusing stories, crushing authors' spirits with re-write orders, things like that?:)
 
That seems really inefficient. Pocket needs to follow the example of my high school cafeteria, where the food was designed so that spirit-crushing was part and parcel of the lunch experience.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
Finished the first story and liked it a lot. I liked how it was a totally different take on what was going on in the movies. Want to move on to the 2nd story but need to seal a bunch of wedding invites... :)
 
I finished all three stories now. I think The Chimes at Midnight was my favorite of all three of them. I did like pretty much any scene in A Gutted World with Damar in it. I love how all of his people treated him like crap because they all outranked him but he was still Prefect. And that bit where one of them hails him after he's downed all that Kanar. "The reply actually contained fewer consonants than that... :guffaw:

As for AGW's ending: It was a downer and a half, true. And given my tendency to want to snatch a happy ending from where none should be, maybe I'm way off base here, but: Is it possible that Admiral Ross - the real one - might not be so easily replaced? Starfleet knows the shapeshifters are coming, don't they? Ross might be ready for them.

(I did find it interesting that, apparently, nobody who was replaced by a shapeshifter in the "real" Trekverse had that done here. I'm sure that was intentional.)

Then again, the Dominion knows that the Federation knows. But do the Feds know that the Dominion knows that they know? I need a drink. :borg:
 
Just finished the book and I have to say, I enjoyed all three stories greatly. I think this Myriad Universe series is a great idea and I'm sorry we'll have to wait till next year for the third one.

Spoilers...



The Chimes at Midnight: Excellent story and a lot of fun (despite the dark nature of events) to see how differently events in the movies play out. I thought all the characters, from the TV shows and the movies, were brought to life in a convincing way. I especially liked the development of David Marcus. Although his time with his father is almost as short it as it is in the Star Trek films, it actually comes across as much more fulfilling. I always thought the Kirk/David relationship was a big missed opportunity. After their first tentative steps together in Wrath of Khan, David is killed immediately in Search for Spock and the opportunity to explore the dynamic was lost. As a fan of the Search for Spock novelization, I'm also glad they developed the David/Saavik relationship too.

Very good seeing Thelin and what the war pushed everyone to do. I think the Federation did what they had to even though the consequences sucked for them. And the Klingons too, obviously. ;) Also liked the use of Arne Darvin and Sybok in this story.

A Gutted World

As a big Deep Space Nine fan, I was looking forward to this story and it doesn't disappoint. Everyone dies is right...it was grimmer than Chimes but I didn't mind. It was a great story.

What's cool here is that the characters are essentially the most like we remember them on the show because the Cardassians retaining Bajor doesn't have a huge effect on Picard as it would Sisko. Seeing Picard subsequently break down as a result of the war was very well-done and of course, seeing all the characters (even Scotty) brought together by the way the Founders plot played out against the galaxy. And the intriguing reversals, like Worf as Defiant captain and Sisko as his XO.

I know Quark has a good side but what was the reason he didn't state for getting involved in this plan?

Brave New World

Just finished it a little while ago and it's another imaginative and entertaining story. The android culture is intriguing and it's a shame we never got to see this played out a full scale during TNG. Lore's dialogue was quite amusing and I thought the writer did a good job of fleshing out the various android charaters throughout. Good to see the return of smaller characters like Lal and Jaxa, as well as familiar faces like Crusher and Ro.

I have my doubts as to whether the MAD would have been a smart idea too. I see what they were trying to do but giving everyone the ability to open gateways can lead the way into some crazy faction or government deciding they want to nuke one of your cities or planets. With a ton of androids running around the galaxy, that makes the likelihood of its success all the more possible.

It's definitely an alternate universe where Picard would choose an android body. I thought that was cool but in TNG, Picard would have given some speech about how our mortality defines us and how one shouldn't try to cheat death. TNG's Earth utopia probably would have turned it down although the reality is, a ton of people would want to upload.

Another thing I was wondering...if a human is allowed to upload into an android body in this universe, than I would assume that the ban on genetic engineering would be lifted. I mean, an android body would give Federation citizens more advantages than even a genetically-enhanced body would. So there would be no reason to hold onto the Khan-era laws.

Once again, excellent job on all three stories. This series has taken Trek into some fun and engaging directions.
 
I know Quark has a good side but what was the reason he didn't state for getting involved in this plan?

He was paid to keep his mouth shut.

Another thing I was wondering...if a human is allowed to upload into an android body in this universe, than I would assume that the ban on genetic engineering would be lifted. I mean, an android body would give Federation citizens more advantages than even a genetically-enhanced body would. So there would be no reason to hold onto the Khan-era laws.

What's the use of genetic engineering when there are no organic bodies left to engineer?

And it wasn't just the bodies that were made better, faster, stronger, etc. by the gen-tech. The process tended to warp the personality as well. It made people more ambitious, cunning and treacherous. Becoming androids, OTOH, seemed to have the opposite effect. It made people more peaceful and patient. It essentially gave them immortality, and of what use is ambition when you can live forever?
 
I, too, just finished reading the stories in "Echoes and Refractions," and found all three to be pretty strong.

Out of those three, I'd have to say that "A Gutted World" was the strongest, but that in no way is meant to denigrate the other two stories.

I'll attempt to write more later but, right now, bedtime beckons ...

Gatekeeper
 
Kira is my favourite DS9 character and after reading “Fearful Symmetry” I wanted more. After I got both “Myriad Universes” books I therefore chose to read "A Gutted World" first.

It was a very interesting experience. On the one hand, the story is definitely dark, sometimes even disturbing. On the other, there was a lot I found amusing. I even laughed sometimes.

“A Gutted World” is a good example of a story I wouldn`t like to find in the “main” Star Trek book universe but as a “What If?” story, it is very interesting and I enjoyed reading it. KRAD showed very well how bad things could have developed during the Dominion War if circumstances were different. It was disturbing to read that in spite of all heroic efforts there was no uplifting end. But is was touching to read how strong and brave these people were, especially when facing certain death.

I especially felt for Picard who struggled the most. Picard can be a warrior if he has to be but he is a scientist, an explorer at heart. I could understand very well that fighting this bloody war and taking lives was becoming more and more difficult for him. Each battle and each loss destroyed him a bit more but nevertheless, Picard kept fighting and refused to give up. That alone is enough to make this story very powerful indeed.

KRAD made good use of the advantage alternate universe stories have: combining characters in new ways that are impossible or wouldn`t work well in the “main” book universe. I enjoyed it to meet some SCE characters and see them interact with others. It was especially nice to meet Corsi again. And Scotty and Sisko working together – it made me laugh sometimes!

I love the idea of captain Worf! It was fun and interesting to watch how he dealt with his colourful crew, including bickering staff in engineering. He showed not only his experience as a warrior but also impressive leadership abilities. He has his own distinctive style but I could see that Worf would indeed be a good captain also in the “main” Star Trek universe. Worf and Kira made a good team and they died well together. It was a good way to end that part of the story but nevertheless, I liked this mix of characters so much that I wished to read more.

Also lots of other characters appeared I enjoyed meeting like Quark, Garak, Gold and Shelby. This is an excellent story and I think what I will do now before “Destiny” arrives is selecting another story from the “Myriad Universes” books.
 
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Finished the first story and liked it a lot. I liked how it was a totally different take on what was going on in the movies. Want to move on to the 2nd story but need to seal a bunch of wedding invites... :)

Finally got a chance to finish up the book.

I thought the 2nd story was fantastic. I'll forgo the usual David Mack jokes here but I'm glad a couple of the good guys were left along with the bad guys to make room for a sequel if it's decided to do so. Just great stuff all around.

The third story didn't do a lot for me. The set up, what if there were a lot of Data's around, just wasn't that compelling of a starting point. Throwing in Iconian gateways and putting human consciousness into android bodies and it all just became a bit much for me.
 
Finally read this...

The Chimes at Midnight: A very interesting exploration of the movie era, filling in a lot that wasn't explored in the films. In a way, this reminded me of my own Places of Exile, because, like PoE, it contains a number of scenes that explain or fill in things from the main timeline as well as the alternate one. For instance, the scene where Morrow talked to the Marcuses about sending the Grissom to Genesis, and where Carol declined to join it, probably unfolded pretty much the same in both timelines. And presumably David's role in developing the Genesis effect was much the same in both as well. Plus it fills in new information about Andorian history and climate, describing events that predate Spock's childhood death and are thus presumably the same in the main timeline.

The main thing I kept wondering, though, was: With no Spock, why didn't V'Ger destroy Earth in 2273? Without Spock, the Enterprise wouldn't have fixed its warp drive in time to intercept V'Ger and wouldn't have deciphered its comm signals in time to avoid being digitized. My best guess is that, since Kirk never served with Spock, he wasn't pushing for a Vulcan science officer on Decker's ship, and so someone other than Sonak was chosen for that role and that person came aboard at a different time, so he or she didn't die in a transporter accident and was able to achieve the same sciencey stuff Spock did. And somehow they were able to find out enough about V'Ger even without Spock's mindmeld.

But if someone else could do what Spock did in TMP, why couldn't someone else have gone back in time and retrieved some humpback whales?


A Gutted World: Well, I couldn't quite get the full effect of this since Keith pretty much told me the whole story in one excited rant at the New York Comic-Con a few months ago. ;) Still, it was good, if awfully dark for me. Luckily it didn't dwell too much on any of the tragedies, since it had so darn many of them to cover. Although they weren't entirely tragedies, because the characters pretty much always succeeded in completing their missions before dying horribly. I think we should call this the Pyrrhic Universe.

But I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the First Contact portion. So two Enterprises from two different timelines both went back to a time before their histories diverged, both restored the same history, but then came back to the same two separate timelines they started from? Yeegh. I'm usually good at rationalizing these things, but this one threatens to give me a headache. :rommie:


Brave New World: I liked this one; in fact, it's kind of similar to an idea I was considering if Marco ever went ahead with my Myriad Futures suggestion of extrapolating forward from the 24th century in different ways (except mine would've used holograms instead of androids). It's nice to see a story where transformative new technologies introduced in one episode are kept and elaborated upon, as they realistically would be, rather than forgotten in order to preserve the status quo, which only happens in episodic TV. (Chimes of Midnight was in a similar vein, come to think of it.) This novel brought aspects of the "transhumanist" trend popular in mainstream SF literature to the Trek universe. It was a bit hard to explore the full range of possibilities of that literature within the confines of the Trekverse, but this novel struck a good middle ground between a Trek story and a transhumanist story.

I did catch the unsettling aspect of the epilogue -- "Do you remember when we had the Prime Directive?" I do kind of wonder why the android/Upload society would've abandoned that principle. I like it that it's ambivalent -- not a perfectly happy ending, but not an overtly horrible one.

One thing I wondered was why Worf would transfer to DS9 in this timeline. In the main timeline, he transferred there for two reasons: because the Enterprise-D had been destroyed, and because the Klingons invaded Cardassia. Neither of those happened in this timeline, so it's hard to see why he would've transferred there. On the other hand, it's an established trope of alternate Trek timelines that the same people tend to follow similar life paths and end up in the same places, all probability to the contrary. I tend to assume there's a sort of quantum-probability resonance between different timeline copies of the same person.


I didn't much care for Brave New World either. The use of the Iconian gateways was interesting, except for one big no-no: giving the technology to *everyone*, Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, etc. I didn't think they would seriously put the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction to use! :wtf: MAD works with nuclear bombs, but not with something like this - Iconian tech can be used 'sneakily', i.e. you can get a garrison of troops into your enemy's capital *without their ever knowing* until the last minute. Giving it to everyone, friend and foe alike, seems extremely irresponsible.

I don't understand why people keep describing it in MAD terms. We're not talking about a weapon, we're talking about a transportation/communication technology. The analogy isn't to nuclear weapons, it's to airplanes. Having air travel would give you considerable military superiority over a nation that lacked it, because it lets you deliver troops and drop bombs, but that doesn't mean aircraft are weapons or that sharing that technology worldwide would in and of itself lead to a Cold War stalemate.

Besides, presumably a society that could figure out how to build Iconian gateway projectors could also figure out how to detect or shield against them. When we build airports, we build them with control towers and security checkpoints. Every new technology carries risks, but those risks can be guarded against.
 
The main thing I kept wondering, though, was: With no Spock, why didn't V'Ger destroy Earth in 2273? Without Spock, the Enterprise wouldn't have fixed its warp drive in time to intercept V'Ger and wouldn't have deciphered its comm signals in time to avoid being digitized.
Is it inconceivable that Geoff may have considered answering this question pretty low on his list of priorities? It did not even occur to me. Presumably, like every other mission over the years where Spock was somehow pivotal, it simply happened differently.
 
I find myself more curious about "City on the Edge of Forever." After all, no way that Thelin could've come back in time with Kirk to rescue McCoy. (Maybe Scotty went with him instead? Or maybe Thelin was able to grab McCoy before he jumped into the Guardian...)
 
The main thing I kept wondering, though, was: With no Spock, why didn't V'Ger destroy Earth in 2273? Without Spock, the Enterprise wouldn't have fixed its warp drive in time to intercept V'Ger and wouldn't have deciphered its comm signals in time to avoid being digitized.
Is it inconceivable that Geoff may have considered answering this question pretty low on his list of priorities? It did not even occur to me. Presumably, like every other mission over the years where Spock was somehow pivotal, it simply happened differently.

Huh? I'm not criticizing his priorities, I'm just curious about one of the ramifications of the premise. And yes, obviously it happened differently, but I'm interested in knowing specifically how.
 
Huh? I'm not criticizing his priorities, I'm just curious about one of the ramifications of the premise. And yes, obviously it happened differently, but I'm interested in knowing specifically how.
Sorry I misinterpreted your post-- but when half of a review comprises a question, it makes it seem as though the non-answer to your question was a significant factor in your enjoyment, you have to admit.
 
I find myself more curious about "City on the Edge of Forever." After all, no way that Thelin could've come back in time with Kirk to rescue McCoy. (Maybe Scotty went with him instead? Or maybe Thelin was able to grab McCoy before he jumped into the Guardian...)
It was one heck of a mechanical rice-picker...
 
A Gutted World: Well, I couldn't quite get the full effect of this since Keith pretty much told me the whole story in one excited rant at the New York Comic-Con a few months ago. ;)
:lol: Sorry about that.....


Still, it was good, if awfully dark for me.
Honestly, it was awfully dark for me, and I had to write the fershlugginer thing....


Luckily it didn't dwell too much on any of the tragedies, since it had so darn many of them to cover. Although they weren't entirely tragedies, because the characters pretty much always succeeded in completing their missions before dying horribly. I think we should call this the Pyrrhic Universe.
Oh yeah. And yes, I wanted to make the deaths have some meaning, not just random killings. Star Trek is, after all, heroic fiction at its heart.


It was one heck of a mechanical rice-picker...
:guffaw:
 
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