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Flux capacitor in Trek lit - Good ol' Doc Brown?

I am so annoyed with "Trials and Tribble-ations" for introducing that bit of technobabble, because a self-causing loop like that is not a paradox at all in a physical sense. A paradox is a scenario that directly contradicts itself. If history loops back on itself and causes the exact same history, there is no contradiction within the system, by definition. It only seems like a paradox because it defies our common-sense expectations of causality.

It also has nothing to do with predestination; that's a melodramatic term for it. The technical term is retrocausality.

That's funny, I thought a Paradox was something which only seems to be self-contradictory and impossible but which turns out to be true.

I also think the aspect of the model that's seemingly contradictory is the nature of the cause for the effect and not necessarily the order in which the cause and effect occur.

I slip on a marble. One cause of that effect is the marble. It turns out that after I slip on the marble, I pick it up, travel back in time to before my past self enters the room, and in a fit of masochism place the marble on the floor so that my past self will slip on it and cause the original event.

That's all fine, non-linear, and great, but where the hell did the marble come from? It's the same situation with Bashir, if he is the seed of his own genesis, then where the hell did the seed come from? It's a closed loop, that's the paradox.

But a paradox is something which only seems impossible, the solution to the problem is that it isn't a closed loop, at some point an alternate timeline was created in which the marble arrived at the place in which I slipped upon it in some fashion other than my time-meddling self placing it there. To be more precise, that timeline in which I wasn't responsible for the marble's placement would have been the original, and the "closed marble loop" created subsequently would be the new alternate one.
 
That's funny, I thought a Paradox was something which only seems to be self-contradictory and impossible but which turns out to be true.

Hmm, that does seem to be the main definition given in dictionaries, I'll concede that. But if so, that's more a vernacular usage than a scientific/mathematical one.


I slip on a marble. One cause of that effect is the marble. It turns out that after I slip on the marble, I pick it up, travel back in time to before my past self enters the room, and in a fit of masochism place the marble on the floor so that my past self will slip on it and cause the original event.

That's all fine, non-linear, and great, but where the hell did the marble come from? It's the same situation with Bashir, if he is the seed of his own genesis, then where the hell did the seed come from? It's a closed loop, that's the paradox.

But a paradox is something which only seems impossible, the solution to the problem is that it isn't a closed loop, at some point an alternate timeline was created in which the marble arrived at the place in which I slipped upon it in some fashion other than my time-meddling self placing it there. To be more precise, that timeline in which I wasn't responsible for the marble's placement would have been the original, and the "closed marble loop" created subsequently would be the new alternate one.

Actually, no. In terms of the actual laws of physics, it is entirely possible for an event to be its own cause. There is nothing in the laws of the universe that forbids that from being the case. It seems impossible to us because it defies our everyday experience and expectations. But there are plenty of things in physics that do that, like the way objects behave in zero gravity or vacuum.

After all, asking where the marble "came from" is the wrong question, because the marble existed before it was placed there, and the particles that make it up existed before they became a part of it. In physical terms, the question is only, what led those particles into that configuration or position at that moment in time? And physical law allows in principle for a self-consistent feedback loop in time, a particle or object being influenced by its own future self. After all, time is simply another dimension.

In fact, in terms of physics and mathematics, that's the only kind of time travel that's allowed. In classical terms, an equation can only have one solution, so an event can only happen one way; the only way the equation of a closed timelike curve can have a meaningful answer is if it's self-consistent, if an event causes itself to happen rather than causing itself not to happen. Of course, Many-worlds quantum theory seems to offer a loophole for that, since the interaction can still be consistent if the time travel creates an altered but separate history while the original remains unchanged. However, applying quantum physics to reverse time travel actually closes that loophole; since a time traveler from the future is part of a history that resolved a certain way, that was "measured" a certain way, that time traveler's interaction with past objects makes them part of that same measured system and guarantees that they will resolve the way the time traveler originally experienced them. Even if there are multiple timelines, a time traveler is "stuck" in his or her original one and can never experience any others. So the situation in real physics is pretty much the opposite of the usual storytelling conceit where time travel creates an alternate timeline.
 
I read the term "predestination paradox" in a novel called Up The Line by Robert Silverberg, written in 1969.

Besides, a retrocausality loop doesn't have the zazz to it.

I'm not at a place or a time where I can look this up, but "All You Zombies" by Robert Heinlein deals with paradox. According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know, but the description matches what I remember of the story), this was written in 1958. Not sure whether the term "predestination paradox" was used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Zombies%E2%80%94

Of course, isn't that a closed event?
 
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