• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Section 31

Renvar

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
I'm curious as to the opinions about the nature and existence of Section 31 in Trek canon. When this organization came to light and when we saw what it was really capable of, do you think that it stayed true to the ideals of Trek?

It just seems like such a blatantly impossible thing after growing up with TNG, that all this time the Federation secret police has been stopping threats through means that undermine all the so-called moral progress made through the centuries since WWIII. In a way it made my opinion of the Federation and Starfleet's governing system diminish. I really thought that they had gotten past this sort of corruption.
 
The theme of DS9 could be summed up in "The Maquis, Part II" from the quote "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." The question it implies is "How does a society maintain its paradise?" DS9 tries to answer that question in a realistic manner. Section 31 is made up of people who believe the ends justify the means, and that makes them bad, but they're not really sanctioned by the Federation--certainly not officially.

And they seem to predate the United Earth government of 2150 because Earth's Starfleet predates it (depending on how you interpret dialogue from TNG's "Attached" and ENT's "First Flight"), and Reed was a member of that organization before his time on Enterprise. Perhaps since it predates the last holdouts of United Earth, it's essentially it's own offshoot secret society. If that was the case it could exist independent of the UFP, but fight as vigilantes on their behalf.
 
Section 31 is the Federation's way to 'have it's cake and eat it too'. They pretend to be all shiny and noble on the surface, but really a system like that cannot function in reality with other hostile powers in the Universe. So they need the shady underbelly of Section 31 to do the necessary dirty work behind the scenes in order to prevent the whole Fed system from falling apart. :techman:
 
I think that the Federation would have to have something like Section 31. Look at what the Cardasians and the Romulans have! I think they are the natural progression of the C.I.A., sort of.

But I have always thought of S31 as a neccessary evil!
 
Section 31 is the Federation's way to 'have it's cake and eat it too'. They pretend to be all shiny and noble on the surface, but really a system like that cannot function in reality with other hostile powers in the Universe. So they need the shady underbelly of Section 31 to do the necessary dirty work behind the scenes in order to prevent the whole Fed system from falling apart. :techman:

Love Sloan's quote to Bashir, re: Romulans. "These are NOT nice people doctor"

Diplomacy doesn't always work, sometimes it takes some deviousness.
 
The theme of DS9 could be summed up in "The Maquis, Part II" from the quote "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." The question it implies is "How does a society maintain its paradise?" DS9 tries to answer that question in a realistic manner. Section 31 is made up of people who believe the ends justify the means, and that makes them bad, but they're not really sanctioned by the Federation--certainly not officially.

And they seem to predate the United Earth government of 2150 because Earth's Starfleet predates it (depending on how you interpret dialogue from TNG's "Attached" and ENT's "First Flight"), and Reed was a member of that organization before his time on Enterprise. Perhaps since it predates the last holdouts of United Earth, it's essentially it's own offshoot secret society. If that was the case it could exist independent of the UFP, but fight as vigilantes on their behalf.

I do like to think of S31 as an outside organization, seperate from Starfleet, even though Sloan claims to work for them. The problem is, Starfleet and the Federation, at least some of them, are well aware of its existence, and do nothing to stop it. In some ways, S31 is a lot like the Maquis. They're Federation citizens taking the law into their own hands, and hold themselves accountable to no one. Starfleet was forced to help stop the Maquis's terrorist actions against the Cardassians, but only because the Maquis were so overt about their identity and cause. They should've followed S31's example; maybe then the Federation wouldn't have been politically pressured into action. :shifty:
 
I actually like Section 31 for the simple reason that it increased the moral ambiguity that already existed on DS9 and made everything more interesting. TOS and TNG were, for the most part, pretty black and white. The introduction of Section 31 makes us question the Federation and just how moral it really is. Not only that, it questions Gene Rodenberry's original vision of the future. Maybe all our human foilbles won't be so easy to overcome, and in my opinion, that makes for much more interesting stories!
 
To me, it made things a whole lot more realistic--it's exactly the sort of hypocrisy that really happens when people try to pretend they're so perfect and evolved.
 
Oh no doubt, Section 31 has made for some wonderful stories and plot developments. I'm just not convinced it's consistent with the Federation I grew up with. The TNG's message was that humans had resolved their internal cultural and social disputes, and had emerged to take their place in the galactic community. To learn that is a lot less the case than was established is disconcerting to me. I guess I found that comforting growing up, that despite the problems in the world, we would turn out alright. S31 undoes a lot of that comfort. Hence I ask the question, is it true to the universe Gene created for his utopian society to have a secret police accepted by the established government?
 
I'm curious as to the opinions about the nature and existence of Section 31 in Trek canon. When this organization came to light and when we saw what it was really capable of, do you think that it stayed true to the ideals of Trek?

Well, no, but that's the point. They're villains, after all.

It just seems like such a blatantly impossible thing after growing up with TNG, that all this time the Federation secret police has been stopping threats through means that undermine all the so-called moral progress made through the centuries since WWIII.

Well, I think that one important thing to keep in mind is that Section 31 only rarely acts; most of the time, things are resolved by Starfleet. The other thing to keep in mind is that it is not merely Section 31's methods that undermine the moral foundation of the Federation -- it's their very existence, which is unaccountable to the democratically-elected government. And the third thing to keep in mind is that the moral progress of the Federation reflects the progress of more than just humanity, so it's inaccurate to refer primarily to World War III.

In a way it made my opinion of the Federation and Starfleet's governing system diminish. I really thought that they had gotten past this sort of corruption.

It didn't to me, because I think if you're going to tell a story about how a society ought to function, you have to also tell stories about how a society ought not to function. To put it another way:

The Federation is supposed to be a nearly ideal liberal democracy. In that sense, we can view the Federation as being what real-life states such as the United States, United Kingdom, French Republic, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and more, wish to be like. And that's fine.

But if you're going to tell a truly meaningful story about the ideal liberal democracy, one of the things the honest storyteller has to acknowledge is how difficult it is for a society to live up to those ideals and how there are always going to be times when aspects of that society will seek to influence the rest of society into abandoning those ideals... and that sometimes, even a good society betrays its ideals because it is not perfect.

To me, stories about Section 31 are good because they're meaningful to my life. I live in a country that was founded on the fundamental principles of liberty and equality -- and in a country that had race-based slavery for the first century of its existence. I live in a country that helped set the standard for international human rights -- and I live in a country whose government has been betraying those standards since 9/11. I'm very aware of the difference between the ideals of the United States and the reality of United States, so, for me, stories about how a liberal democracy falls short of its ideals are meaningful. They help to place the real-life political situation into context.

And, further, they help reaffirm my belief in the potential of liberal democracy to overcome those hurdles and to improve. To become, in the words of the United States Constitution, a more perfect Union. DS9 ended before it could really get around to this, but it's fairly obvious that at some point, Bashir and Company were going to take them down and re-affirm the fundamental ideals of the Federation.

Just like, this November, Barack Obama and Joe Biden are going to take down the Republican Party and re-affirm the fundamental ideals of the United States.

And when either one happens? I'll be cheering.

Oh no doubt, Section 31 has made for some wonderful stories and plot developments. I'm just not convinced it's consistent with the Federation I grew up with. The TNG's message was that humans had resolved their internal cultural and social disputes, and had emerged to take their place in the galactic community. To learn that is a lot less the case than was established is disconcerting to me. I guess I found that comforting growing up, that despite the problems in the world, we would turn out alright. S31 undoes a lot of that comfort. Hence I ask the question, is it true to the universe Gene created for his utopian society to have a secret police accepted by the established government?

What I would suggest is this:

It is very easy to get very comfortable with the "official line" and to just presume that one's society is now so advanced that it would never do anything wrong. It would be very easy to just read the White House press releases saying that US forces have not engaged in intentional, institutionalized acts of torture and to presume that the United States is just so much more evolved than it used to be that it could never do something like that.

But to do that is irresponsible citizenship. Responsible citizenship means recognizing that as good as things have become, and that as evolved and enlightened as a people may be, no one is above temptation. No one is so enlightened that they can't betray their own ideals.

It may be comforting from TNG to think of the Federation as being a nearly-perfect society. And, really, even with Section 31 to factor into things, the Federation in Trek is clearly so much closer to the ideal of liberal democracy that it would be irrational NOT to say that it's a fundamentally better society than what exists anywhere in the real world today. But DS9's adding Section 31 adds a bit of honesty things -- it implicitly criticizes the complacency and the blind faith that goes into the presumption that things are so much better that no part of one's society could ever do wrong.

And I think that's a very good criticism to make. The attitudes espoused by TNG are dangerous -- they're what lead to good people supporting atrocities.

I do like to think of S31 as an outside organization, seperate from Starfleet, even though Sloan claims to work for them. The problem is, Starfleet and the Federation, at least some of them, are well aware of its existence, and do nothing to stop it. In some ways, S31 is a lot like the Maquis. They're Federation citizens taking the law into their own hands, and hold themselves accountable to no one. Starfleet was forced to help stop the Maquis's terrorist actions against the Cardassians, but only because the Maquis were so overt about their identity and cause. They should've followed S31's example; maybe then the Federation wouldn't have been politically pressured into action.

Actually, the Maquis represent something fundamentally different than the anarchy of breaking the rule of law: The Maquis are an attempt to establish an entirely new society and new rule of law. They're separatists -- they want to form their own Republic of Maquia or some such. Now, they may or may not also be terrorists in pursuing that objective. While you may not agree with their goal of sovereignty and independence, let's keep in mind that that's a very different thing than Section 31; the Maquis don't wish to be accountable to no one, they simply wish to be accountable to their own citizens instead of the larger Federation's. Section 31, on the other hand, as you rightfully noted, wishes to be accountable to no one and yet to have carte blanche to do whatever it wants at all times.

Other thing:

"Secret police" is probably not the best term to describe Section 31. There's no evidence that they engage in the suppression of domestic dissent or in political oppression. They're a criminal organization that dedicates itself primarily to external threats.
 
Last edited:
Excellent post, Sci, I agree completely. In particualr this point:
The attitudes espoused by TNG are dangerous -- they're what lead to good people supporting atrocities.
A lot of Star Trek fans feel that In the Pale Moonlight in particular and the DS9 moral-ambiguities theme in general was dangerous, and betrayed the evolved society of Roddenberry.

I disagree - Picard's holier-than-thou moralising was always far more morally reprehensible to me than Sisko's visible struggles with difficult ethical decisions - greater good versus absolute morals, accepting lies to maintain paradise, and whether it is right to betray principles in order to preserve their essence from perceived greater threat. Picard and TNG on the other hand almost always acted as the moral authority, dictating what was right and wrong to the 'backward' alien culture of the week.

When there was a moral decision to make, you knew exactly what Picard was going to pick, and his reasons. Honour, truth, duty, integrity, all the usuals. And the choice nearly always worked out to favour the Federation anyway.
I, Borg is the perfect example. Picard wrestles with his conscience but ultimately decides exactly what we all expected, and, to the surprise of no-one, it turns out to be a blow to the Borg in their favour anyway in Descent. Picard making the 'right' decision is rewarded in the end.

DS9 does this much less often. The decision the characters are going to make is much less concrete or predictable, and the outcome isn't automatically stacked in their favour if they chose the 'right' course of action. Paradise Lost, For the Uniform, Change of Heart, Valiant, and yes, In the Pale Moonlight, all tackle these concepts along with many other examples. And this is a very big part of what DS9 so engaging and watchable. As Benny Russell might say, it was reeeeeeaaaaallll!!
 
I disagree - Picard's holier-than-thou moralising was always far more morally reprehensible to me than Sisko's visible struggles with difficult ethical decisions - greater good versus absolute morals, accepting lies to maintain paradise, and whether it is right to betray principles in order to preserve their essence from perceived greater threat. Picard and TNG on the other hand almost always acted as the moral authority, dictating what was right and wrong to the 'backward' alien culture of the week.

Exactly--Picard really was arrogant and self-righteous at times, and probably the three most flagrant instances in my book were:

1) First Contact: he claimed "evolved sensibilities" and then went on a vengeance quest against the Borg.

2) Who Watches the Watchers: Obviously he had to undo the cultural contamination he did on Mintaka, because he knew he was not a god. But to slam religion in general...that was unacceptable. Surely BIGOTRY is something that an evolved society would have "moved past"?

3) The Wounded: He did very well for most of this episode--until he decided to insult Macet by claiming that he had a lot to learn about loyalty...in so many words, because he's a Cardassian. He's lucky Macet didn't deck him, because he sure had the excuse. (And frankly, I think Macet had a valid point in that dialogue, and in a certain sense the right one.)
 
I'm curious as to the opinions about the nature and existence of Section 31 in Trek canon. When this organization came to light and when we saw what it was really capable of, do you think that it stayed true to the ideals of Trek?

It just seems like such a blatantly impossible thing after growing up with TNG, that all this time the Federation secret police has been stopping threats through means that undermine all the so-called moral progress made through the centuries since WWIII. In a way it made my opinion of the Federation and Starfleet's governing system diminish. I really thought that they had gotten past this sort of corruption.

We saw quite a few Federation characters in TOS and TNG acting in an ethically questionable manner. At times for what they considered the good of the Federation, in others just because they were nutbags.
 
I thought that S31 was an awesome addition to the Trek universe. Now, I don't think DS9 or ENT always did a great job with them. Both shows often made them come off as incompetent, except for the Inter Arma Silent Leges episode.

To be honest, I think the high morality of TNG was a mistake. It made the characters too perfect and dampened down on internal dramatic conflict, so they often had to create conflict externally. My favorite TNG moments, looking back, often came when their was infighting or disagreements among the crew or when a person was brought in that caused conflict-Shelby, Ro, Jellico, etc. I could relate to that much more. Yes, TNG/Trek is based in the future, but it was written by 20th century people for a 20th century audience. The characters from TOS and DS9 always felt more relatable to me because they did have flaws, they did argue a little bit more. I loved TNG, but the seemingly eternally happy crew thing didn't quite work for me.

Starfleet Intelligence had already been set up by TNG, and we had seen Starfleet do some shady things in The Undiscovered Country, so its not much of a stretch to assume that some rogue intelligence outfit could crop up, especially after the threats Earth and the Fed faced over the centuries: Romulans, Klingons, Borg, Dominion which could all have defeated them, and then stuff like the Planet Killer, the Crystalline Entity which turned into major threats. Not to mention smaller conflicts with the Cardassians, Tzenkethi, possibly the Talarians. And the Tholian raids. For a peaceful people the Fed has long been established as being in quite a few conflicts down the ages. It makes sense that some people would try to manage or minimize these conflicts on a covert level.

I do wish that they didn't always portray S31 as bad or fanatics. Really blur the line and show what good they have actually done. To some extent we saw that with the Terra Prime eps. on ENT. In the ENT novels we are also seeing that in The Good that Men Do and Kobayashi Maru.
 
Both books, TGTMD and KM, at least show that Section 31 was not interested in using all of its secrets as weapons (case in point: their knowledge of the Vulcan-Romulan connection).

Obviously they did a lot of morally unethical things in DS9, such as spreading the Founder Virus (which made sense, considering the Federation's chances against the Dominion were not looking good at the time). It's not all that different from the struggle at the end of WWII by Harry Truman and others as they tried to decide whether to drop the A-bomb on Japan, or launch a bloody invasion of that island.
 
Both books, TGTMD and KM, at least show that Section 31 was not interested in using all of its secrets as weapons (case in point: their knowledge of the Vulcan-Romulan connection).

Obviously they did a lot of morally unethical things in DS9, such as spreading the Founder Virus (which made sense, considering the Federation's chances against the Dominion were not looking good at the time). It's not all that different from the struggle at the end of WWII by Harry Truman and others as they tried to decide whether to drop the A-bomb on Japan, or launch a bloody invasion of that island.


Two things:

1) The Section 31 of ENT's era is a much more benevolent organization than its 24th Century counterpart. Power corrupts, even if such institutions start out relatively benign.

2) The engineering of the Founder Virus is not comparable to the dropping of the atomic bomb because Section 31 engineered and introduced the virus long before hostilities actually broke out. (They infected Odo during Season Four's "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" two-parter, using him as the carrier to introduce it to the rest of the Great Link.) In other words, whilst the dropping of the atomic bombs at the end of World War II may -- MAY -- be logically justified as an attempt to end hostilities with fewer casualties than would be incurred through an invasion of the Japanese home islands, the engineering of the Founder Virus is nothing short of an unprovoked first strike and a wanton act of aggression and genocide.
 
Yeah, genocide or not... the Federation were going to lose that war without that virus. It was their "guarentee" which is the very nature of Section 31. Personally, I don't condemn that action at all seeing as how the Dominion would have obliterated everything in Federation Space if it wasn't for the Prophets. You could say that it was inappropriate because war hadn't started yet, but it did need time to become effective (aka Odo returning to the great link, which couldn't happen during open conflict).

Section 31 may not be ethical... but an organization like that is necessary for our survival.
 
Yeah, genocide or not... the Federation were going to lose that war without that virus.

Not true. In fact, the virus almost denied them their victory. The Federation and its allies had already effectively won the war by mid-2375 militarily, before the effects of virus were affecting Dominion policy ("Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"). The Dominion was beat fair and square, but because the Female Shapeshifter was bitter and vindictive over her race's impending extinction, she decided to order all Dominion troops to retreat to Cardassia Prime and then was ready to order the Dominion fleet to make the Allies fight for every square inch of the planet, which would have resulted in a pyrrhic victory for the Allies. Had she not had that virus, the situation would have remained the same; the Dominion would have been defeated in the Alpha Quadrant. But the Female Shapeshifter would have been much less vindictive because her race would not have been facing extinction, and she probably would have surrendered and ordered Dominion troops back to the Gamma Quadrant. Only the intervention of Odo in granting them the cure saved the Federation from such a devestating "victory."

Either way, the virus did not win them the war.

It was their "guarentee" which is the very nature of Section 31.

Hardly. If anything, the virus would have made the situation worse; by removing the only element keeping control of the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta, the virus would have unleashed interstellar chaos across two quadrants if it had worked as planned. Could you imagine Dominion technology falling into the hands of a dozen different Vorta-led factions all going to war with each other? Or falling into the hands of smaller, politically unstable races? Or hordes of Jem'Hadar flying across the galaxy without anyone to control them? It'd be like Iraq after Saddam Hussein but many millions of times worse.

Section 31 may not be ethical... but an organization like that is necessary for our survival.

Bullshit. Section 31's blowback nearly cost the Federation its survival.
 
The engineering of the Founder Virus is not comparable to the dropping of the atomic bomb because Section 31 engineered and introduced the virus long before hostilities actually broke out.
But the atomic bomb was also engineered long before hostilities with Japan broke out, even though the process of completing the engineering took so long that said hostilities and other hostilities broke out, and yet other hostilities petered out or turned into alliances, and the groundwork was laid for still other hostilities, and other alliances.

Specific hostilities have little to do with weapon development in general. The A-bomb wasn't aimed against Japan - it was aimed against Germany, and perhaps against Britain and France and other European powers of threat potential, until Japan got in the way.

And of course, hostilities with the Dominion had in fact broken out years before the virus was created (2nd vs. 4th season). Moreover, in retrospect it's obvious that the hostilities had existed for hundreds or thousands of years, as the two sides had held opposing viewpoints long before meeting each other.

Applying an existing technology, and tailoring it to the requirements of the day, would then be standard method for dealing with a culmination of hostilities.

The Federation and its allies had already effectively won the war by mid-2375 militarily, before the effects of virus were affecting Dominion policy ("Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges").
What in that episode would suggest impending victory? I don't see such indications even in the level of self-congratulatory and perhaps self-deluded "conferencespeak", let alone in the objective sense. The only party really suggesting that the war is already over are the lying bastards from S31... With whom nobody seems to be in agreement, save for their lap dog Ross. And his honesty to the party line is suspect as well.

In "What You Leave Behind", we see and hear that the Dominion forces could cripple the Alpha militaries by adopting a last-stand tactic. During the general course of the war, we see and hear that the Dominion can increase its strength fantastically even when in isolation. Basically, then, at all points of "What You Leave Behind" before the bioweapon cure card was played, the Dominion was actually being victorious!

Timo Saloniemi
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top