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Will Before Dishonors Ending Affect Voyager books? Spoilers!

And - who knows? - maybe Janeway-as-Q will be even more interesting than Janeway as Captain (VOY) or Janeway as Admiral (NEM; "A Time...", etc). ;)

Or maybe exploring how the characters move on into a new phase of their lives without Janeway will be more interesting than some gimmicky and obvious way of bringing her back.

Would Spider-Man's life have been as interesting if Uncle Ben had come back from the dead? Would Norman Bates' story have been as interesting if Mother had really come back to life? Would Dr. Richard Kimble's story have been as interesting if the One-Armed Man had only put his wife temporarily in a coma? I'm not saying the VGR novels will take a route resembling any of those, but the point is there are many different ways in which the death of one character can have very interesting and unpredictable effects on the lives of the people who cared for them. Killing off a character and not bringing them back can open as many doors as it closes.


Besides, BD never said Janeway was going to become a Q -- merely that Lady Q was helping her with the transition to wherever she was going next, implicitly some sort of afterlife. I mean, granted that Q had some affection for "Kathy" -- that doesn't mean he'd elevate her to full Q status or that the Continuum would allow such a thing. Yes, Riker was given Q powers briefly, but that was a specific experiment. Expecting Janeway to be turned into a Q is kind of like expecting Porthos or Spot to be given a Starfleet commission.
 
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I'm a huge Voyager fan (it's my second-favorite series behind DS9) and an even bigger Janeway fan, and, as soon as I can, I'm going to grab the TNG Relaunch books and the last two published Voyager Relaunch books, read them, and then grab Full Circle, precisely to find out how the Voyager Relaunch handles the death of the one character who, arguably, was the heart and soul of what Voyager was about, good AND bad. Anyone who thinks that there are no more stories to tell with Voyager just because Janeway was killed off is incredibly narrow-minded, I'm sorry to say, and demonstrates very little faith in the Trek fiction writers and editors.

To those complaining about Janeway being killed in a TNG book as opposed to a Voyager book, the fact is that, even from Homecoming, Janeway was being phased out as a central character in the Voyager mythos because she'd accepted a career path that would take her away from the ship that she'd become synonomous with. By including her in the TNG Relaunch, the Trek fiction writers and editors made sure that she'd remain relevant to the stories they were telling, without having to create parallell-running stories for her in the Voyager relaunch novels (a tactic that works for the DS9 Relaunch, but wouldn't for Voyager, because Voyager is and always was a much more 'contained' series than DS9). When the decision was made to kill her off, it wouldn't have made much sense to bring her back to Voyager to do it (tossing Worf back in with the TNG crew for the movies never made much sense either), so the TNG Relaunch was the best - and really the only - place where she could be killed off.
 
Steve Rogers has been dead for a year and a half with no return in sight, and yet Captain America has become one of the very best books Marvel Comics currently publishes, and I image they've made more money off of the character since he died than they did in the previous ten years with him alive. Just because a character dies doesn't mean that his/her story is over.
 
To those complaining about Janeway being killed in a TNG book as opposed to a Voyager book, the fact is that, even from Homecoming, Janeway was being phased out as a central character in the Voyager mythos because she'd accepted a career path that would take her away from the ship that she'd become synonomous with. By including her in the TNG Relaunch, the Trek fiction writers and editors made sure that she'd remain relevant to the stories they were telling, without having to create parallell-running stories for her in the Voyager relaunch novels (a tactic that works for the DS9 Relaunch, but wouldn't for Voyager, because Voyager is and always was a much more 'contained' series than DS9). When the decision was made to kill her off, it wouldn't have made much sense to bring her back to Voyager to do it (tossing Worf back in with the TNG crew for the movies never made much sense either), so the TNG Relaunch was the best - and really the only - place where she could be killed off.

The way I saw it was that, with Voyager back in the Alpha Quadrant, there HAS to be some sort of overlap for the situations and the characters. It's one thing for the Dominion War to rage across the Alpha Quadrant while the lost in the Delta Quadrant Voyager is unaffected. But now, major events will result in reactions from ALL the crews. And for the post-Nemesis fiction, Janeway had become a major character in the lives of the TNG characters, and, by extension, a major character for the novels themselves. From Nemesis to her death, she is the Admiral that Picard and the crew interact with.

The thing to keep in mind for Full Circle is that it's picking up from the Spirit Walk duology and then goes through the events of Destiny. That's a time table of about three years - which means that there's no reason to expect that we won't see the events of Before Dishonor through the eyes of the Voyager crew.

I have faith in the writers of all of Trek Lit - They know this is a major event and they won't sweep it under the rug for the Voyager characters. Sometimes, the aftermath is more interesting than the actual event.
 
I guess the killing of Janeway is being noticed. I was at a diner reading that crappy Marvel pb reprint of three comics, I had found it at a used book store for real cheap and I still over paid, when one of the waiters started to crouch down at my table looking at my book. He said he was wondering which of the books I was reading. I said just a comic reprint and he said "Hey, did you know they killed off Janeway in the books?".

I was hoping to avoid a long discussion about this, mainly because my food hadn't arrived and I didn't want him distracted so I just said "Yeah, I heard about that".

He said "What a stupid thing to do. First of all, how are you going to kill her?" I was wondering what reason he had and was running through the possibilities in my head when he came up with something that hadn't occured to me. "I mean, with that helmet hair of hers, isn't that going to deflect any phasor blasts? Come on!!!" and he ran off before I could respond.
 
The big difference is, of course, that these are death that happened on screen or on TV and couldn`t be ignored by the books.

How is that any different? Why should the books be forbidden from exploring a worthwhile category of story that the shows are able to do? More to the point, why would you expect the current authors and editors of Pocket Star Trek novels to pull their punches like that?

Anyway, like it or not, Janeway's death is a fait accompli. It's pointless to debate whether it should've happened; it did. Now the only question is what comes next.

It is different. The books have never done something like that before. Yes, several “canon” characters were killed but never one of the main characters and certainly not the lead character of a TV Star Trek series.

I have never said such stories should be forbidden. I said very clearly that there is a lot of room for that in parallel universe stories. Of course I can only speak for myself but in my opinion, killing Janeway in the main Star Trek book universe for good is a first step over a threshold that should not have happened. What next? We could read one day that Deep Space Nine blows up killing nearly everyone on board. The same could happen to the Enterprise. There could only be one, two or three key characters left and the rest will be something completely new. That would be very realistic and that could also be great stories but is that really something the average fan will be happy with? As I said, people buy these books mainly because they want to read adventures with the characters they know from TV. Mixing them with new ones enhanced my reading experience a lot but taking away main Star Trek “canon” characters is not a good idea.

No, I think this discussion is very important. Janeway`s death happened. I am certainly not in favour of a cheap resurrection story. If someone will bring her back, I hope it will be really very very good. Otherwise it is better not to do it.

But what happened opens the question, is this the exception of the rule or is this the start of a new trend? Yes, the question is indeed, what comes next.
 
How is that any different? Why should the books be forbidden from exploring a worthwhile category of story that the shows are able to do? More to the point, why would you expect the current authors and editors of Pocket Star Trek novels to pull their punches like that?

It is different. The books have never done something like that before.

Which is the worst imaginable argument against doing it. Before 1997, the books had never created their own original Trek series, but then New Frontier happened. Before 2001, the books had never done a "relaunch" continuity continuing beyond the end of a series, and then the DS9R happened. Before this year, the books had never been allowed to marry off main characters or have them conceive children, and then I did both in Greater Than the Sum. If the books were in the business of avoiding things that had never been done, they wouldn't be remotely as interesting today.

What next? We could read one day that Deep Space Nine blows up killing nearly everyone on board. The same could happen to the Enterprise. There could only be one, two or three key characters left and the rest will be something completely new.

That's a reductio ad absurdem argument and something of a straw man. You know perfectly well that an extreme case like that is not likely to happen, so it's disingenuous to claim such a thing. But exaggeration aside, you have a point. Readers can't be complacent that the status quo will be maintained anymore. There is now the very real possibility that major changes will happen, that main characters will die, that ships will be lost. There are now real stakes, not just the illusion of them. How can that be a bad thing?


That would be very realistic and that could also be great stories but is that really something the average fan will be happy with?

"The average fan" is a fiction that individual fans use to make their personal opinions sound like some kind of consensus view. Just looking over this thread alone, I see only two people who are intractably opposed to the idea of Janeway being/staying dead, some who are undecided or open-minded about the possibilities, and some who are intrigued by the prospect of exploring the aftermath of a main character's death in a mature and reset-button-free fashion. You're only speaking for yourself, not the mythical "average fan."

I think that the majority of fans, special interests and factions aside, will be happy with any story that's well-told and interesting. And I think that's the case even if the story builds on a situation they were unhappy with. Heck, I was unhappy with Janeway's death. I liked Janeway. I liked having her around. I liked having a sympathetic figure in the Admiralty for a change. I'm saddened that she isn't around anymore. But I'm quite happy with what Kirsten is doing with the aftermath of that sad event. So it's absurd to say that what makes fans happy is purely a matter of situations. It's a matter of how those situations are handled.

But what happened opens the question, is this the exception of the rule or is this the start of a new trend? Yes, the question is indeed, what comes next.

Neither of those is a fair or adequate description, or even a sensible one. Of course we're not going to begin killing regulars off on a bimonthly basis, and of course we're not going to swear off ever doing it again. What happens next is the same thing that happened before: We will make whatever decisions work best for the stories. We will take advantage of our freedom to tell meaningful tales with real consequences. And we will do our best not to be predictable.
 
Expecting Janeway to be turned into a Q is kind of like expecting Porthos or Spot to be given a Starfleet commission.

Expecting?

I'm expecting nothing more than wise choices from Pocket editors and authors. Whatever they happen to be.

Janeway as trainee Q is simply one possibility for future VOY books - that's all.
 
Well I was just going to put my two pence in, but Christopher put it far better.

The decision to kill Janeway has been made and it was executed, for better or for worse, yes she may come back, but then again she may not. My very own personal opinion is that after rewatching Voyager and learning a few things along the way, I began to like and respect Kathryn Janeway and I may even though I am not a fan of the writer, I may read the first two post Endgame duologoies to get upto pace for Full Circle, anyway, my point is, I hope she stays dead and it had better be something fucking spectacular to bring her back post Before Dishonour!
 
I like Janeway, and always have. It does kind of piss me off that she was killed off. And it also sort of casts a pallor over watching the show, knowing what will eventually happen to her. :(

But it only takes one author, one book, one LINE, to bring her back. I find that comforting.
 
I've alway liked Janeway myself, but I'm not that upset about it. Yes, it is sad that they killed her, but on the other hand, I'm really glad to see that the books are finally starting to make major changes. I'm also very curious to see what kind of effect this will have on the other characters, because often the deaths of characters and their aftermaths can actually give us some of the best stories in the series.
 
As I said, people buy these books mainly because they want to read adventures with the characters they know from TV. Mixing them with new ones enhanced my reading experience a lot but taking away main Star Trek “canon” characters is not a good idea.

By that same argument, would you also claim that the books should have used the B4 option to miraculously bring back Data? I'm sure Data had a lot more fans than Janeway yet the TNG books without Data seem to be doing okay.
 
Quick note here for many of the Voyager fans that looked forward to "Full Circle", there will be a great number that will pick this book up, read the last pages, and if Janeway is still dead they will put the book back on the shelf and not pick up another. It is just as simple as that.

Brit

Well speaking as someone who only kept watching Voyager because it had Star Trek written in front of it, I'm actually looking forward to this and budget permitting it will be the second Voyager book I've ever paid full price for and probably the first I'll read. In fact I'm actually a little excited for it. In a weird way, the death of Janeway made me start thinking about the other characters in the show. And I get to experience a new writer, who will hopefully take the series in a cool direction.

As for Janeway, yeah she was the lead character but she wasn't the beginning and ending of the show. The Doctor, Seven, B'Ellana and Tom, and Tuvok were (in my opinion) more interesting characters and generally had better stories. I'm hoping the book will do something with Chakotay, who as the first Native American (talk about a group that still doesn't get a lot of respect) character generally didn't get to do much other than go on vision quests. I also hope Tuvok makes a guest appearence but stays on Titan. And yet neither of those things happening isn't really a deal breaker depending on how its handled. Because how its handled is the key thing. If Mrs. Beyer decided to kill off the entire crew of the show it wouldn't be so bad if it was handled with the kind of respect that the characters deserve and made me feel something and possibly make me view my life a bit differently.
 
By that same argument, would you also claim that the books should have used the B4 option to miraculously bring back Data? I'm sure Data had a lot more fans than Janeway yet the TNG books without Data seem to be doing okay.

I'm a Data fan, much more than a Janeway fan. I was more angry that the director of "Nemesis" failed to get a tear out of me when Data gave his life. I did assume that B-4 would become an ongoing character in the novels - but not necessarily a Data-in-training - it's probably a good thing the Pocket's editors have chosen not to do much with him at all. Yet.

I'd love to see a follow-up to "Immortal Coil" some day, and maybe a project like that is when B-4 will return to the spotlight, even if only briefly?

But there's no rush for anyone to return from the dead. If it happens, it happens. Let it unfold s the narrative demands.

I think DC Comics was way too hasty replacing Jason Todd (Robin II) with Tim Drake (Robin III) after that big "Should Robin Die?" phone poll and all the publicity. Ditto Batman returning from his broken back. Ditto "World Without a Superman".
 
i don't care one way or the other, because it's just a goddamn book. jeez people, get some sodding perspective. there's more important things to get bent out of shape about than the fate of a fictional character from a fictional TV show in a fictional book.
 
Yeah, every once in a while I've got to put my two Euros in...:D

So what I read so far is that Janeway's death is still discussed rather heatedly and I can understand that. My personal opinion is that I don't want to read about the death of a character but of the life! For me it has no appeal to see how the people around Kathryn deal with her death, I'd rather see (now in this case) how she returns. Well it seems though that some people find resurrecting her would be a bad idea but I don't see the point, heck I don't see the point in killing her in the first place.....I just don't want Star Trek to be that epic, I liked it just fine on TV.
Dear writers please don't feel attacked by my words, I liked most of the new books the last two years, I just don't understand why there had to be Before Dishonor...I think there are millions of ways to have dealt with Kathryn Janeway instead of killing her.

Best wishes Commander Troi
 
i don't care one way or the other, because it's just a goddamn book. jeez people, get some sodding perspective. there's more important things to get bent out of shape about than the fate of a fictional character from a fictional TV show in a fictional book.

Er - that's what this thread is entirely about! It's not primarily a forum for world politics etc although they may come up... it's about the death of a key character and its affect on future books.

P
 
I'd love to see a follow-up to "Immortal Coil" some day, and maybe a project like that is when B-4 will return to the spotlight, even if only briefly?

But there's no rush for anyone to return from the dead. If it happens, it happens. Let it unfold s the narrative demands.

They could always send B4 to Voyager. There's room on the bench.
 
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