Superboy/Man-Prime question (speculation)

[Gojirob]

The world he came from was already a paradox - a world in which Superman was both an established fictional character and one day, a real one, at least in terms of Krypton and Clark Kent. In fact, its been pretty much established that part of what drove SP mad was living with this uber-iconic image, knowing he had no possibility of attaining it in reality. For good measure, he encountered two men who had achieved this beyond any and all measure, one of whom became a makeshift foster father.

Then we go to the infamous 'punching the barrier' moment ('punching the barrier'--already sounds like a euphemism for some private activity). Because of his unique position outside reality, in a place formed by reality's recreation in COIE, SP is able to cause many of the changes we saw in the DCU, particularly with re-origined characters. For some, including myself, this is a difficult assertion to swallow, but for myself, I decided after the fact that an explanation for the changes beats no explanation. And then I thought further.

In short, could SP have paradoxically caused his own existence? In one accepts the stretch of 'ptb' itself, then its only a short hop to allowing this all to even affect the events of the original Crisis and its buildup.

I see the COIE as a vast swirling storm of time and space, and so an insane causative loop like this one is not beyond its many effects. Course, were SP to find out such a thing, we'd prolly have a Joker-level insane Silver Age E1-type Kryptonian.

 

[Sketcher]

what is wrong with DC?

 

[Ben Sisko3]

what is wrong with DC?

Everything.

 

[Derishton]

In short, could SP have paradoxically caused his own existence? In one accepts the stretch of 'ptb' itself, then its only a short hop to allowing this all to even affect the events of the original Crisis and its buildup.

I see the COIE as a vast swirling storm of time and space, and so an insane causative loop like this one is not beyond its many effects. Course, were SP to find out such a thing, we'd prolly have a Joker-level insane Silver Age E1-type Kryptonian.

It's an interesting idea. I find the barrier-punching explanation amusing but serviceable - if you accept the Source Wal and the Guardians and Amazons, why not allow for a transference of energy of this kind?

I hadn't given much thought to Prime's anomalous existence, but DC probably should revisit it. This way would probably cause some hair to fall out, and they might be better off stating that he came from another of the alternate universes and slipped (accidentally or by someone's design) into the prime-Earth.

 

[TheArsenal]

I try not to think too much about the punching the barrier moment. It's more than a little silly from a story stand point, but a functional enough mechanism from a continuity clean up point of view, I guess. As you noted, it would be a pretty insane causative loop. And maybe its lack of imagination on my part, but I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the origin point; how Superboy-Prime would be able to create himself without being first created. Assuming barrier punching is how he is comes into being, I'm just not sure how that can be done. He may have been able to alter aspects of himself/his world, but creation itself is a toughie.

Reminds me of the John Connor causal loop discussions.

 

[CaptainCanada]

That seems a little out-there (and unnecessary).

 

[Supervisor 194]

what is wrong with DC?

DC, ever since the first Crisis on Infinite Earths, has been unable to simply ignore story points from its history that no longer work (example: Beppo the Super-Monkey, who only had a handful of appearances anyway).

Instead, whenever a regime feels that there needs to be a house-cleaning of a character or characters, they try to do it in-story rather than just trying to tell good new stories with said character and just ignoring whatever story elements no longer work. This has caused an near-endless cycle of going from one reality changing 'mega-event' to another, as they mistakenly strive to emulate what Marvel has (for the most part) in its more stream-lined continuity. The problem: Marvel was essentially built that way from the ground up, while DC's characters were built for a more 'within character' continuity than a 'shared universe' continuity.

The fact that DC has a history of complete reboots for characters also encourages name writers who come on board to feel entitled to throw everything out (hypothetical new writer on, for example, Superman: "Byrne got to start from scratch, so I want to do it too").

 

[CaptainCanada]

They like picking at scabs (like the recent hint of yet another origin story for Hawkman; ugh).

 

[Gojirob]

That seems a little out-there (and unnecessary).

Normally, I'd be the first to agree with you. But as pointed out, in an atmosphere where no nit gets passed by w/o a miniseries, the anomaly of a potential Kal/Clark/Superman existing within a world like ours, well, it just won't shut up in my head. My idea has lots of holes, but in that, its hardly unique.

Good or bad, SP can't exist too much longer. The presence of an Earth-1 type Kryptonian minus virtually every SA weakness you can name in the present DCU structure IMO just doesn't work. He's too powerful, and not in that undefined way some supers have. We know what he can do, and so does he.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Well, Superman seems to have set his sights on redeeming him in Legion of Three Worlds, so who knows?

 

[Turbo]

They like picking at scabs (like the recent hint of yet another origin story for Hawkman; ugh).

Oh, please god, no.

 

[CaptainCanada]

They like picking at scabs (like the recent hint of yet another origin story for Hawkman; ugh).

Oh, please god, no.

Where is your god now?

 

[Gojirob]

Well, Superman seems to have set his sights on redeeming him in Legion of Three Worlds, so who knows?

I'll allow for anything, if its well written. That said, the only 'forgiveable' sin of SP's in my eyes is the fight with the Titans. He lost control and went batshit from the blood on his hands. But there's been so much since, including Kal-L, the embodiment of the original Superman from 1938 and the TV series. That old man had been like a father to SP. But he was just another obstacle to vengeance and 'starting over' with the universe (Geez, SP--that trick never works! ). Then there's who knows how many alt-Earths during Countdown.

And if redeemed, what then? Who would take him in, to keep him from losing it again? A being with his power and trauma is always going to be a danger.