Fun and Adventure gone?

[RobertScorpio]

Over the past few years or so people lament Star Trek from moving away from the fun and adventure of TOS to a more character driven/message ladened format. Some even trace TREK's fall, in the later series, to this belief.

Do you believe TREK substituted substance for adventure? Or do you think these are fans who are looking back on TOS with 'rose tinted' glasses that do not take modern day tastes into account?

Rob
Scorpio

 

[number6]

I think that "fans" who lament the lack of fun and adventure in the modern series are missing out on what those other series have had to offer.
I've found plenty to enjoy in all the series. Sorry others cling so tenaciously to such a narrow view of the Trek universe that they can't (or rather refuse) appreciate the rest of it.

 

[SFRabid]

I think that anyone that does not think TOS was message laden never really watched TOS.

 

[number6]

I think that anyone that does not think TOS was message laden never really watched TOS.

Haha.. Very true!!

 

[SFRabid]

Oh, and with 28 seasons of Star Trek plus animated series plus movies, it would be a huge mistake not to vary the formula. Who could take 28 seasons of TOS?

 

[number6]

Oh, and with 28 seasons of Star Trek plus animated series plus movies, it would be a huge mistake not to vary the formula. Who could take 28 seasons of TOS?

There are a few guys who would like that.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Oh, and with 28 seasons of Star Trek plus animated series plus movies, it would be a huge mistake not to vary the formula. Who could take 28 seasons of TOS?

Yep..I agree. And I also agree with you that, for its time, Trek did have a message. But there was also a campiness that I don't think today's audience would go for.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[maryh]

As Leila Kalomi said "Yes, to both questions".

I think the issue here is fun and adventure rather than message. Except for TOS, IMO none of the Treks had that intangible feeling of fun, subtle humor, dangerous gripping adventure of the unknown that kept you on the edge of your seat. Also the ability of feel right along with the characters was also lacking. Other Treks did offer other things, but for me personally I watch Trek for the entertainment, fun, adventure, emotional impact, dramatic thought provoking storylines set to a futuristic exotic backdrop.

I guess that with this being an election year I'm a little sick of being bombarded with messages, political statement, social commentaries etc. I watch Trek to escape from all that.

 

[number6]

As Leila Kalomi said "Yes, to both questions".

I think the issue here is fun and adventure rather than message. Except for TOS, IMO none of the Treks had that intangible feeling of fun, subtle humor, dangerous gripping adventure of the unknown that kept you on the edge of your seat. Also the ability of feel right along with the characters was also lacking. Other Treks did offer other things, but for me personally I watch Trek for the entertainment, fun, adventure, emotional impact, dramatic thought provoking storylines set to a futuristic exotic backdrop.

I guess that with this being an election year I'm a little sick of being bombarded with messages, political statement, social commentaries etc. I watch Trek to escape from all that.

We must have been watching different shows. the Star Trek I've been watching for the last 35+ years have had a balance of both fun and message.

Sorry you missed it.

 

[maryh]

We must have been watching different shows. the Star Trek I've been watching for the last 35+ years have had a balance of both fun and message.

Sorry you missed it.

If we can believe what then OP said, I'm not the only one who finds the fun and adventure lacking in non-TOS Trek. Messages have always been there for all the Treks, though IMO the better episodes were simply great stories without hidden messages. But fun and adventure is definitely lacking for me and others in later Trek. Too message heavy, indoctrinating, preachy, slow, out-of-touch with human nature, unexciting and uneventful for my tastes. Can't judge DS9 though because I haven't seen enough of it.

 

[number6]

I'm not buying the words of the few bitter fanboy types who dine on the sound of their own rhetoric. I enjoyed the shows to varying degrees and felt that some had fun and adventure and a message. There are those who were involved with the original show who said that the underlying message was Star Trek at its best. I thought TNG could be heavy handed sometimes, but they had fun too. I thought DS9 captured the spirit of TOS with it's rich characterizations and social commentary. ENT captured the fun and chemistry between the characters and VOY tried to give us the best of both worlds and occasionally succeeded. If you want to whine and bitch about how much you feel cheated, go on right ahead, but it does make you sound bitter and occasionally petty.

Geez.. I didn't know how much Star Trek sucked until I started coming to a fan site. Go figure!

 

[maryh]

I'm not buying the words of the few bitter fanboy types who dine on the sound of their own rhetoric. I enjoyed the shows to varying degrees and felt that some had fun and adventure and a message. There are those who were involved with the original show who said that the underlying message was Star Trek at its best. I thought TNG could be heavy handed sometimes, but they had fun too. I thought DS9 captured the spirit of TOS with it's rich characterizations and social commentary. ENT captured the fun and chemistry between the characters and VOY tried to give us the best of both worlds and occasionally succeeded. If you want to whine and bitch about how much you feel cheated, go on right ahead, but it does make you sound bitter and occasionally petty.

Geez.. I didn't know how much Star Trek sucked until I started coming to a fan site. Go figure!

I'd say there were more than a few disgruntled fan boys involved. The execs at Paramount saw the ratings and interest decline. As a desperate attempt to resurrect a dying franchise they did the smart thing and went back to the prolific roots of ST again to recapture the fun and adventure that addicted so many to ST. I for one lost interest for reasons stated in the OP. If the ratings and following dipped, I'm not alone. No bitterness, I just got bored from lack of entertainment within ST. Accept some constructive criticism - might help ST have a future.

 

[number6]

I'm not buying the words of the few bitter fanboy types who dine on the sound of their own rhetoric. I enjoyed the shows to varying degrees and felt that some had fun and adventure and a message. There are those who were involved with the original show who said that the underlying message was Star Trek at its best. I thought TNG could be heavy handed sometimes, but they had fun too. I thought DS9 captured the spirit of TOS with it's rich characterizations and social commentary. ENT captured the fun and chemistry between the characters and VOY tried to give us the best of both worlds and occasionally succeeded. If you want to whine and bitch about how much you feel cheated, go on right ahead, but it does make you sound bitter and occasionally petty.

Geez.. I didn't know how much Star Trek sucked until I started coming to a fan site. Go figure!

I'd say there were more than a few disgruntled fan boys involved. The execs at Paramount saw the ratings and interest decline. As a desperate attempt to resurrect a dying franchise they did the smart thing and went back to the prolific roots of ST again to recapture the fun and adventure that addicted so many to ST. I for one lost interest for reasons stated in the OP. If the ratings and following dipped, I'm not alone. No bitterness, I just got bored from lack of entertainment within ST. Accept some constructive criticism - might help ST have a future.

Thanks for the skewed history lesson. My acceptance of your opinion of Star Trek-constructive and otherwise- will neither impact my enjoyment of the new film, or the future of the franchise, whose history of its rise and decline is way more complicated than you think.

I'm sorry you don't find ST entertaining. I have and continue to do so. Your loss.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, and with 28 seasons of Star Trek plus animated series plus movies, it would be a huge mistake not to vary the formula. Who could take 28 seasons of TOS?

Yep..I agree. And I also agree with you that, for its time, Trek did have a message. But there was also a campiness that I don't think today's audience would go for.

Rob
Scorpio

I dunno. I don't think the "campiness" went over all that well in the 60s either.

 

[number6]

Oh, and with 28 seasons of Star Trek plus animated series plus movies, it would be a huge mistake not to vary the formula. Who could take 28 seasons of TOS?

Yep..I agree. And I also agree with you that, for its time, Trek did have a message. But there was also a campiness that I don't think today's audience would go for.

Rob
Scorpio

I dunno. I don't think the "campiness" went over all that well in the 60s either.

It went over pretty well when we used to get stoned and would watch Batman and Star Trek in high school and college.

Some people take their Trek wayyyyy too seriously.

 

[DanStro]

Over the past few years or so people lament Star Trek from moving away from the fun and adventure of TOS to a more character driven/message ladened format. Some even trace TREK's fall, in the later series, to this belief.

Do you believe TREK substituted substance for adventure? Or do you think these are fans who are looking back on TOS with 'rose tinted' glasses that do not take modern day tastes into account?

Rob
Scorpio

I remember when Voyager was on the air (not sure if DS9 was too but I think it was) a lot of people were critical of the modern shows saying that they didn't have the allegory content that TOS had. They would say that the shows focused too much on the fun and adventure at the expense of real substance.

Interesting how the impressions change.

 

[number6]

Interesting how the impressions change.

Not really.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yep..I agree. And I also agree with you that, for its time, Trek did have a message. But there was also a campiness that I don't think today's audience would go for.

Rob
Scorpio

I dunno. I don't think the "campiness" went over all that well in the 60s either.

It went over pretty well when we used to get stoned and would watch Batman and Star Trek in high school and college.

Some people take their Trek wayyyyy too seriously.

All I know is some of the campier episodes tend to wind up on the worst of trek lists. Though being in elementary in the 60s I didn't get a chance to watch Trek when high.

 

[number6]

I dunno. I don't think the "campiness" went over all that well in the 60s either.

It went over pretty well when we used to get stoned and would watch Batman and Star Trek in high school and college.

Some people take their Trek wayyyyy too seriously.

All I know is some of the campier episodes tend to wind up on the worst of trek lists. Though being in elementary in the 60s I didn't get a chance to watch Trek when high.

Which campier episodes are considered their worst?? and by whom??

The only ones I can think of are Spock's Brain, ATCSL, and the Way to Eden, all three of which are certainly entertaining for reasons other than what the producers had intended...and there's nothing wrong with that in the least!!

 

[SFRabid]

Star Trek has always had a small but visible following. Never enough ratings to keep it on network television, but yet invoking a fanatical following. Ratings arguments never hold for Star Trek no matter which side you take.

I don't like all the series equally but I respect the variety they give. That is why we have arguments over which series is the best. What I don't like is the "They did not do it the way I wanted so the show is bad and anyone that likes is it crazy" attitudes that so many fanboys have. To them I say "Come back and put me down for liking modern day ST after you go to Hollywood and create a more popular series." Then I might consider you worthy of the insults.