Issues with Voyager
- Thread starter jimbtnp2
- Start date
Voyager was a great show--a great cast, an interesting seven year journey, an awesome captain, an awesome Borg, an awesome ongoing serious relationship to enjoy for once, an awesome Vulcan, and like that. Some love it, some hate it, some are ambivalent...seems like it's time for this thread to wind down, everyone is just repeating themselves now. We'll have a new "I hate Voyager thread" sometime in August--I guarentee it.
You've already been friendlied about your trolling - in fact I'm the one who has insisted on giving you the benefit of the doubt since you started posting here. However, you've overplayed your hand. It's obvious you're not here for any constructive conversation - you just want to provoke.
Warning for trolling. Comments to pm and/or MA.
Enterprise was the worst. They took a good cast and gave them some of the worst stories in Trek history.
clonewarrior
Ensign
Enterprise had one thing going fot it over voayger - it TRIED to be serious - no holo-stories, neelix, etc
1.Great premise, executed at the same time as lots of other premises which lead to slow start and nightmarish results.
2.I liked when they would just make a holodeck program to hang out in, but it's the source of death and destruction way too many times.
3. Oh, I dunno. I think Bill Shatner could give them a run for their money. And from a visual aspect, the animated adventures have them beat hands down.
4. Star Trek's deus ex machina. Live with it.
5. Not so much Lameway as Playsfavoritesway.
6. Actually liked Naomi, but what annoyed me was not her presence but her lack of presence for so long. She's born, and then remains so invisible as to be nameless for two years. Two years!
7. The Borg didn't get neutered. Overused and devillified, yes, but neutered, no. Well, except in Endgame, but I don't pay attention to Endgame unless I'm forced to watch it.
I think once you accept Voyager for what it is, it's actually a good sci-fi show. I complained recently about the early seasons, because the show seemed to be conflicted in what it was trying to do. Towards the end of season 3 and into season 4, it's as though a decision was made to just make Voyager an acceptable TNG clone. By this point, it became fast food entertainment.
Enterprise suffered from a weak cast. Sure they didn't have anybody as annoying as Neelix or Harry, but at least those characters got development. Outside of Archer, Trip and T'Pol, the others were more like recurring extras rather than main characters. Seasons 3 and 4 were perhaps better than any single Voyager season, however there's more of Voyager to enjoy, so I guess it's a case of quantity over quality.
Enterprise suffered from a weak cast. Sure they didn't have anybody as annoying as Neelix or Harry, but at least those characters got development. Outside of Archer, Trip and T'Pol, the others were more like recurring extras rather than main characters. Seasons 3 and 4 were perhaps better than any single Voyager season, however there's more of Voyager to enjoy, so I guess it's a case of quantity over quality.
See!
Breezy and Windy were the most convincing transvestites ever!
I wonder if any of the other actors on Enterprise only pretended to have testicles?
Surly y'all remember that an alien Holodeck turned up in the 5th episode Unexpected? The episode was called Unexpected because it was unexpected that Rick and Brannon could hold out so long before grabbing one of their hokey crutches. Everyone was so proud of their amazing fortitude and staying power for keeping off their trite deus ex mechana devices like they did if you don't count a couple other minor lapses earlier on in the season.
Breezy and Windy were the most convincing transvestites ever!
I wonder if any of the other actors on Enterprise only pretended to have testicles?
Surly y'all remember that an alien Holodeck turned up in the 5th episode Unexpected? The episode was called Unexpected because it was unexpected that Rick and Brannon could hold out so long before grabbing one of their hokey crutches. Everyone was so proud of their amazing fortitude and staying power for keeping off their trite deus ex mechana devices like they did if you don't count a couple other minor lapses earlier on in the season.
What was wrong with Voyager in a (large) nutshell.
1.Extreme reliance on techno-babble as plot resolution. There comes a point when all of that really amounts to "let's push this button and make eveything better).
2. No palpable sense of danger. Lost, alone,cut off from any aid,and after 5 years their biggest problemis how to keep the Irish holodeck program running. The ship was never damaged, we never really saw them going without anything,
3. No continuity.
4. The Borg- Prime example of Voyager writing a threat down to make it easier to handle, than writing the crew up to make them truly intelligent and innovative.
I guess I am actually one of the few people who didn't want to see more tension between Starfleet and Maquis. The Maquis were criminals in name only and saw themselves as moral people fighting for a good cause. They were smart enough to realize cooperation was the best way to go. Besides I think more focus on the crew would only have detracted from elaborating on the aspects of the Delta Quadrant.
I actually kind of liked the Skipper/Gilligan thing Seven had going with Naomi. It helped humanize Seven and was kind of fun.
I hated it, but I can forgive the ever malfunctioning holodeck episodes as it was overused on TNG as well
The cast were perfectly fine in their roles(except for Garret Wang. Either him or Kim or both were just annoying.)
Janeway could be over the top, but I think that is more the fault of the writers schizophrenic presentation of her than Kate Mulgrews fault.
1.Extreme reliance on techno-babble as plot resolution. There comes a point when all of that really amounts to "let's push this button and make eveything better).
2. No palpable sense of danger. Lost, alone,cut off from any aid,and after 5 years their biggest problemis how to keep the Irish holodeck program running. The ship was never damaged, we never really saw them going without anything,
3. No continuity.
4. The Borg- Prime example of Voyager writing a threat down to make it easier to handle, than writing the crew up to make them truly intelligent and innovative.
I guess I am actually one of the few people who didn't want to see more tension between Starfleet and Maquis. The Maquis were criminals in name only and saw themselves as moral people fighting for a good cause. They were smart enough to realize cooperation was the best way to go. Besides I think more focus on the crew would only have detracted from elaborating on the aspects of the Delta Quadrant.
I actually kind of liked the Skipper/Gilligan thing Seven had going with Naomi. It helped humanize Seven and was kind of fun.
I hated it, but I can forgive the ever malfunctioning holodeck episodes as it was overused on TNG as well
The cast were perfectly fine in their roles(except for Garret Wang. Either him or Kim or both were just annoying.)
Janeway could be over the top, but I think that is more the fault of the writers schizophrenic presentation of her than Kate Mulgrews fault.
I found something else about Voyager that I didn't really like..the fact that they were stranded in the Delta Quadrant WITH supplies. I think it would have been better if they were stranded with LIMITED supplies, having to make allies and trade negotiations with aliens who, at times, didn't want to be an ally-but an enemy. 
This is one thing(and I know I shouldn't compare series..but humor me, I'm using this as an example!) that I really enjoy about nBSG..they have limited supplies on their ship and have to find allies to fight against the Cylons. If Voyager's writers had done that, the series probably would have taken a totally different direction.
And I do agree-Fair Haven and Spirit Folk were painful episodes to watch. I was really disappointed in both of them.
This is one thing(and I know I shouldn't compare series..but humor me, I'm using this as an example!) that I really enjoy about nBSG..they have limited supplies on their ship and have to find allies to fight against the Cylons. If Voyager's writers had done that, the series probably would have taken a totally different direction.And I do agree-Fair Haven and Spirit Folk were painful episodes to watch. I was really disappointed in both of them.
I think Gul Evek's Cardassian ship, rather than being destroyed, should have been pulled into the DQ with Chak's Maquis fighter. Imagine the conflict you could have had between the Starfleet, Cardie, and Maquis crews if that had happened? Janeway would be flat out trying to keep the Maquis and Cardassians from killing each other.
Also, they should have left Suder alive.
Also, they should have left Suder alive.
Jeri claimed that lon was irredeemable so she kicked him off the ship.
I think the biggest flaw was the PREMISE. When Roddenberry first devised TOS, when the Enterprise was the Yorktown, he toyed with the idea of having it be lost in space and trying to get home. Then he wisely realized that this would wear thin after a half a dozen episodes and instead decided to keep the ship in contact with the authoritries (Starfleet) at least on a limited basis and for the most part, he would give the ship orders every episode. It hardly mattered whether or not the show always went along with those orders..it could have met Trelane instead, for example, but it gave the show a lot of room to develope.
With Voyager it's just getting home. Oh, we'll seek out new life, but all we really care about is getting home. Hope some technology or anamoly will help us. You know that any episode that promises early on the possibility of getting home will probably not get them home, so there's little point in watching them. I hated even more episodes that say "we got such and such nhumber of light years closer". I just couldn't care after a while. The show also only paid lip service to other tangient aspects to this premise, such as repairing damage, getting supplies and all of that ..and all of that is devoid of any intrigue or drama. And the big hook Feds and Marquis working together was so flat and unworkable it was ridiculous. How were they going to feed this plot, anyway? "Captain we got two people fighting down there on deck six.. what do we do? One is Maquis."
Then they couldn't really think of an adversary unique to Voyager that had any real fascination. TNG had the Borg, DS9 had the Dominion, and Voyager had..uh.. the Borg!
With Voyager it's just getting home. Oh, we'll seek out new life, but all we really care about is getting home. Hope some technology or anamoly will help us. You know that any episode that promises early on the possibility of getting home will probably not get them home, so there's little point in watching them. I hated even more episodes that say "we got such and such nhumber of light years closer". I just couldn't care after a while. The show also only paid lip service to other tangient aspects to this premise, such as repairing damage, getting supplies and all of that ..and all of that is devoid of any intrigue or drama. And the big hook Feds and Marquis working together was so flat and unworkable it was ridiculous. How were they going to feed this plot, anyway? "Captain we got two people fighting down there on deck six.. what do we do? One is Maquis."
Then they couldn't really think of an adversary unique to Voyager that had any real fascination. TNG had the Borg, DS9 had the Dominion, and Voyager had..uh.. the Borg!
Well Voy did suffer from Gilligan's Island Syndrome. Nothing was ever going to really get them home, not even the Professor's nifty new warp slingshot or B'Elanna's new coconut bra. But despite this, there was something to the premise of carrying one's values beyond the purview of one's society, that hit home in the age of globalization & evaluation of one's own heritage or morality. Remove the social pressure and you begin to explore your own true values.
I've always loved the premise of VOY. Could have done with a bit more realism, but that's now, not 1995.
I've always loved the premise of VOY. Could have done with a bit more realism, but that's now, not 1995.
Meego
Lovers Knot.
Herman's Head
Baywatch
Alf
The New Gidget.
No lawyers seemed to be comptrolling the licensing issues on Gilligan's Island. Now that would have been a Holodeck vista which would have been fraking amazing to visit every couple weeks or so... But mostly to see B'Elanna in a coconut Bra, or harry and Gilligan trading hard luck stories.
Lovers Knot.
Herman's Head
Baywatch
Alf
The New Gidget.
No lawyers seemed to be comptrolling the licensing issues on Gilligan's Island. Now that would have been a Holodeck vista which would have been fraking amazing to visit every couple weeks or so... But mostly to see B'Elanna in a coconut Bra, or harry and Gilligan trading hard luck stories.