Trying to recapture the spirit of TOS/TNG = The end of Trek
- Thread starter Gotham Central
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I loved the idea of "even more Star Trek" when DS9 was announced. But I was very lukewarn to the first handful of episodes. However, I don't think it looked back after "Blood Oath", which reunites three Klingon nemeses from Kirk's day (Kor, Koloth and Kang, all now bumpy-headed) and sends them off on a kooky quest with a very perky Jadzia Dax, whom they remember as Curzon.
From that moment on, I was hooked.
However, when TNG and DS9 were on air simultaneously, TNG's ratings were still going up, while DS9's slid down. So it wasn't just trends in the TV business.
And you're also forgetting that TOS was cancelled for poor ratings in its third season. That makes it the least successful Star Trek series of all time. Even ENT made it through four..
Depends on how you're measuring. Repeats of TOS - in early primetime, five days a week - were highly successful, and it was the momentum of this building family audience that made ST:TMP possible.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
There is much truth here...
TOS was different than all other series in one respect.
TOS - first two years were good and then it went bad.
Other ST series - first two years were bad and then they improved.
Also,
TOS was on a major network with little competition.
TNG was the most available of the spin-offs with wide dispersement through syndication. Each following series had a greater struggle for air time ending with Enterprise being slowly suffocated on a network available to only half of the US population.
TOS - first two years were good and then it went bad.
Other ST series - first two years were bad and then they improved.
Also,
TOS was on a major network with little competition.
TNG was the most available of the spin-offs with wide dispersement through syndication. Each following series had a greater struggle for air time ending with Enterprise being slowly suffocated on a network available to only half of the US population.
While TOS declined in its 3rd year its still superior to all modern trek on the whole whenu consider all aspects of the show
I have to disagree that TNG got better - I feel that TNG s1 is best followed by S3 - after that things degraded fast and Voy and Ent S1-2 were worse
This an interesting interpretation. I don't agree with all of it, though. Original TNG was too much a product of GR's later years after he started believing all his own press. I was long of the opinion that TNG hadn't aged well--but when I recently watched seasons 4 and 5 on dvd, I was amazed at how good it was...once GR had pulled back.
Can you redo your list and break up TNG into seasons? Same with Voyager--1-3 with Piller at the helm (right?), and the 7 or 9 years (4-7) are different (I love them equally, though, I think).
TOS--Devil in the Dark, Planet Killer, Tholian Web, 'nuf said. Great stuff. I saw all the eps multiple times in the 70s as a preteen and teenager, started a life-long love of Sci Fi for me. Favorite episode: Devil in the Dark
TNG--kind of an "at last, it's back" feeling, great to have spaceships on tv again, at its peak in the middle years. Piller should be mentioned with Behr. Favorite Episode: The Measure of a Man
DS9--The Federation presides over Israel/Palestine, yawn, only series I own none of on dvd. I tried to watch later seasons on t.v. this winter since sensible folks on these forums loved it, but I just don't like my Trek filled with war and terrorism, just not my cup of tea, though I generally agree that the writing, directing, and cast were all fine. Favorite Episode: Trials and Tribble-ations
Voyager--Only made it through a season and a half when it was on, though I caught an ep here and there until the end. But I loved watching it all on dvd this spring--a fantastic seven-year journey, this show did have its own spirit and its own concept. Sure it changed over the years, especially since Seven came on--but she's my favorite character outside of Janeway and Torres, so no complaints for me. This show was the only one about a singular journey--loved it. It has the best female characters of any Trek show. Favorite episode--a top 10 list would be the best I could do
Enterprise--season 1 had me more excited about Trek than I had been in years, couldn't get enough of it. Season 2 was fine. Season 3--I wasn't happy with my show becoming all about 9/11, and Similtude showed us what kind of crap Manny Coto was capable of providing. Season 4--fanwank, Enterprise characters shoved aside for pre-TOS stories. Brent Spiner--yawn; Daedelus--double yawn; Mirror Universe, gag. Still loved Enterprise until the end, though. Favorite season: one
I'm not sure TOS and modern Trek can really be compared, though. I'd probably only divide Trek in three:
TOS
GR's massive ego on display, TNG seasons 1-2
TNG 3-7, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise--the real "next generation"
If there's one thing that sets modern Trek apart and is at the root of the worst of Trek (with a few exceptions, of course, as with anything) it's holodoecks and holograms.
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Judging a series by its first 2 episodes would be a mistake. By that logic, TNG wouldn't have lasted a full season, because Encounter at Farpoint and Naked Now were both awful. How about watching a good DS9 episode before judging the series?
I'd rather prefer TPTB concentrate on giving/writing a good story -- rather than trying to capture TOS's "lightning in a bottle" a second (or sixth) time...
Cheers,
-CM-
Cheers,
-CM-
I think its a defensible position I think S3 of TNG still had some of GR's influence from S1 (trek lite) with better stories and Fx- and the music was still there until exercise by Berman post S3
I personally think if TNG had ended after S3 it's impact on Americana and its general perception would be much much higher
My favs from S3
Tin Man
BOBW
Yesterday's enterprise
High Ground
Sarek
The Survivors
V-factor
Sins of the Father
Ensigns of Command
The Most Toys
The Defector
That's very true - but i think it would result in the most TOS worthy successor
jimbtnp2, I notice that you double post a lot. If you could use the "multi-quote" feature to combine your responses it would be appreciated, alternatively do it manually.
Thanks.
Thanks.
If the best they can come up with is going down the road that DS9 did then "Star Trek" is well and truly dead and that's just as well.
If Abrams' movie works - that is, if it's a commercial hit and if it intrigues people the way the original "Star Trek" did or holds their attention and affection as TNG successfully did for most all of its run - then the new version of "Star Trek" may live (again or for the first time, depending upon how faithful you think it is).
Otherwise, R.I.P. "Star Trek."
If Abrams' movie works - that is, if it's a commercial hit and if it intrigues people the way the original "Star Trek" did or holds their attention and affection as TNG successfully did for most all of its run - then the new version of "Star Trek" may live (again or for the first time, depending upon how faithful you think it is).
Otherwise, R.I.P. "Star Trek."
If they set out to recapture the spirit of TOS with the new movie, then I'll be watching happily. If they set out to recapture the spirit of TNG then I won't be watching. Why? Because I can hardly stand to watch TNG reruns now. I tune in occasionally for my favorites like Yesterday's Enterprise or Chain of Command. But I simply can't sit down and watch repeat episodes of TNG like I can with TOS, DS9 and some of ENT. TNG just seems so corny and heavy handed now that I'm an adult.
I was 10 when TNG premiered and a senior in high school when it ended. I imagine what I defined as good story telling changed pretty dramatically.
I was 10 when TNG premiered and a senior in high school when it ended. I imagine what I defined as good story telling changed pretty dramatically.
how does that work?
TNG seasons 1-2 were Gene's dream. Say what you will about his buying into his own press, but Star Trek helped a lot of people and trying to tap into the core of what made that possible was a noble effort; IMHO, far superior to the melodrama that many outspoken people here prefer.
I think of Seasons 3-5 to be the Golden Era - just the right mix of Gene's vision and Berman's touch. Seasons 6-7 were when things began to decline.
DS9 seasons 1-2 were trying too hard be TNG on a space station, but what else was there than TNG at the time, and still it produced some of my favorite stuff of my and many fans' favorites in the series - "Duet," "Dax," "In the Hands of the Prophets," "Progress," "Necessary Evil," "The Wire," "Cardassians," "Crossover," The Circle Trilogy, "The Maquis," more.
Mid DS9 had its own admirable flare, but the end, like w/TNG and TOS before it, was a mess.
VOY's and ENT also went through stages...someone else want to break them down? I feel VOY's main problem was that it was Gene-less TNG.
I think of Seasons 3-5 to be the Golden Era - just the right mix of Gene's vision and Berman's touch. Seasons 6-7 were when things began to decline.
DS9 seasons 1-2 were trying too hard be TNG on a space station, but what else was there than TNG at the time, and still it produced some of my favorite stuff of my and many fans' favorites in the series - "Duet," "Dax," "In the Hands of the Prophets," "Progress," "Necessary Evil," "The Wire," "Cardassians," "Crossover," The Circle Trilogy, "The Maquis," more.
Mid DS9 had its own admirable flare, but the end, like w/TNG and TOS before it, was a mess.
VOY's and ENT also went through stages...someone else want to break them down? I feel VOY's main problem was that it was Gene-less TNG.
If you click the "multi-quote" option at the bottom of each desired post, then click reply, you can then compose a post that contains quoted material from all those selected.
Otherwise you can just copy/paste what you want.
But, TNG did end after S3. It ended at S7. You'll never make it to New Veriform City the way you're going!
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