'fire one shot and we'll blast you back where we found you"?

[tobindax]

Who wrote that thing? It's in 'sleeping dogs', one of the introductory episodes to Klingons. The episode itself depicts them aggressive, ready to make enemies and with a sense of honor. 'Take what little Honor you have left and head home'?

Reality: The would have fired, he may have fired, he would have killed dozens of Klingons and Holy Archer the Just would have his first dead bodies. Alternatively, they would have fired, he would flee to avoid killing them.

It's ridiculous seeing Archer with a self satisfying look after the incident when you know if those were realistic Klingons according to the episode's depiction itself, let alone most other trek, they would have fired. Did they find the 1 in a 10,000 Klingon that was a chicken? Lucky them.

 

[JiNX-01]

Who wrote that thing? It's in 'sleeping dogs', one of the introductory episodes to Klingons. The episode itself depicts them aggressive, ready to make enemies and with a sense of honor. 'Take what little Honor you have left and head home'?

Reality: The would have fired, he may have fired, he would have killed dozens of Klingons and Holy Archer the Just would have his first dead bodies. Alternatively, they would have fired, he would flee to avoid killing them.

It's ridiculous seeing Archer with a self satisfying look after the incident when you know if those were realistic Klingons according to the episode's depiction itself, let alone most other trek, they would have fired. Did they find the 1 in a 10,000 Klingon that was a chicken? Lucky them.

There was also Judgment (Duras admits being beaten by a human); Marauders (the Klingons get their butts kicked and flee like terrified chickens. Real Klingons would have returned to their ship and blasted the hell out of that mining site).
What the heck: Broken Bow... a Klingon running away and hiding in the opening scene?

 

[SFRabid]

In Enterprise the Klingons seem to be a much more fractured society than they are in TNG, not quite as brave or honorable. It also seems consistant with the Klingons of TOS. The Klingons in "Trouble with Tribbles" are very different than they are in TNG and DS9. I always thought it was TNG and DS9 that got Klingons wrong.

 

[KayArr]

In Enterprise the Klingons seem to be a much more fractured society than they are in TNG, not quite as brave or honorable. It also seems consistant with the Klingons of TOS. The Klingons in "Trouble with Tribbles" are very different than they are in TNG and DS9. I always thought it was TNG and DS9 that got Klingons wrong.

Yeah--for all of the "there's no continuity with later Trek" bashers, this the one thing they did right, correct?

 

[tobindax]

Who wrote that thing? It's in 'sleeping dogs', one of the introductory episodes to Klingons. The episode itself depicts them aggressive, ready to make enemies and with a sense of honor. 'Take what little Honor you have left and head home'?

Reality: The would have fired, he may have fired, he would have killed dozens of Klingons and Holy Archer the Just would have his first dead bodies. Alternatively, they would have fired, he would flee to avoid killing them.

It's ridiculous seeing Archer with a self satisfying look after the incident when you know if those were realistic Klingons according to the episode's depiction itself, let alone most other trek, they would have fired. Did they find the 1 in a 10,000 Klingon that was a chicken? Lucky them.

There was also Judgment (Duras admits being beaten by a human); Marauders (the Klingons get their butts kicked and flee like terrified chickens. Real Klingons would have returned to their ship and blasted the hell out of that mining site).
What the heck: Broken Bow... a Klingon running away and hiding in the opening scene?

some writer may have thought it's true what they say about bullies 'they're just cowards trying to take it on weaker beings'.

too bad it's not true. bullies, aren't cowards, they're bullies, that's why they're not cowards. being not cowards doesn't make them "good" but trying to say someone is aggressive and at the same time coward makes you an idiot for not seeing the antithesis.

 

[SFRabid]

some writer may have thought it's true what they say about bullies 'they're just cowards trying to take it on weaker beings'.

too bad it's not true. bullies, aren't cowards, they're bullies, that's why they're not cowards. being not cowards doesn't make them "good" but trying to say someone is aggressive and at the same time coward makes you an idiot for not seeing the antithesis.

I'm not sure exactly what you were saying but bullies do tend to be cowards taking their frustrations out on the week. Smack one and watch him run to his friends for help.

If Klingons were agressive to the point that a spy would face sure death rather than deliver imiportant information they would never have developed as much tech as they have.

 

[tobindax]

It doesn't fit with how klingons are depicted almost anywhere else. Simple as that, even if the 'bullies' parallel isn't exactly right.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Klingons in Enterprise behave more like the Klingons from TOS.

So what's the problem?

 

[tobindax]

Klingons from TOS were tossed by the movies. Let alone they were shown for like 10 seconds. Enterprise's first episode showed them more.

 

[DarthPipes]

Klingons in Enterprise behave more like the Klingons from TOS.

So what's the problem?

I think you mean Klingons in Enterprise should have behaved more like Klingons from TOS.

This was always a problem with Enterprise's portrayel of Klingons. Part of the reason to do a prequel was to use them again for the enemies. Yet almost every time they appeared, it was anti-climatic. First contact with the Klingons was described as a disaster in TNG and it's portrayed as completely anti-climatic and listless. The Klingons could care less when Archer and company show up. Then whenever you did find "bad" Klingons like in Marauders, the writers always took pains to tell us that they were rogue Klingons, not following the will of the Empire.

TNG and DS9 fleshed out the Klingons and made them more compelling characters. No question there. But if the Klingons were supposed to be villains in Enterprise, then they should have been portrayed as much. Not to mix of TOS and TNG where they are bad but "honorable" and only truly bad Klingons were performaning these isolated exercises in evil. They could never make up their mind whether they wanted them to be evil or honorable. They act friendly one minute then at the last minute, they yell at Archer to prove they're "evil." Just a mess.

 

[KayArr]

They could never make up their mind whether they wanted them to be evil or honorable. They act friendly one minute then at the last minute, they yell at Archer to prove they're "evil." Just a mess.

Gosh...that sounds a lot like...LIFE!

 

[cooleddie74]

Klingons have always been a multihued society with many social strata. DOMINATED and DIRECTED by the warrior and military class to be sure, but still containing many poets, musicians, doctors, lawyers and farmers who don't all share the same cookie-cutter views of combat and honor.

 

[tobindax]

Truth be told, I never found Klingons realistic. It's simply impossible to develop a civilization with such aggressiveness. Sure, an alien species may have different advantages, but we don't see other advantages, they are simply: human but aggressive. e.g. Vulcans are 100 times more intelligently depicted: They are shown to have been trying to repress feelings but at the same time there is a backstory that makes perfect sence: their physiology makes it easy to explode emotionally so some emotion-repressing meditation is constantly needed, makes sense. Klingons, what are they, humans from the dark ages. They have nothing other than being aggressive, humans with a problem. Realism and logic suggests they are a fairy tale, they would not have developed beyond caves with such aggressiveness, how are they even going to develop groups for a common purpose with such hate and destructive tendencies. Unless they stole it all.

 

[SFRabid]

Klingons in Enterprise behave more like the Klingons from TOS.

 

[KayArr]

Truth be told, I never found Klingons realistic. It's simply impossible to develop a civilization with such aggressiveness. Sure, an alien species may have different advantages, but we don't see other advantages, they are simply: human but aggressive. e.g. Vulcans are 100 times more intelligently depicted: They are shown to have been trying to repress feelings but at the same time there is a backstory that makes perfect sence: their physiology makes it easy to explode emotionally so some emotion-repressing meditation is constantly needed, makes sense. Klingons, what are they, humans from the dark ages. They have nothing other than being aggressive, humans with a problem. Realism and logic suggests they are a fairy tale, they would not have developed beyond caves with such aggressiveness, how are they even going to develop groups for a common purpose with such hate and destructive tendencies. Unless they stole it all.

I think that you are correct. One of the earliest TNG novels, A Call to Darkness, by Michael Jan Friedman, has Worf come to a similar realization--that it's his place between two worlds that has made him stronger.

 

[pookha]

Who wrote that thing? It's in 'sleeping dogs', one of the introductory episodes to Klingons. The episode itself depicts them aggressive, ready to make enemies and with a sense of honor. 'Take what little Honor you have left and head home'?

Reality: The would have fired, he may have fired, he would have killed dozens of Klingons and Holy Archer the Just would have his first dead bodies. Alternatively, they would have fired, he would flee to avoid killing them.

It's ridiculous seeing Archer with a self satisfying look after the incident when you know if those were realistic Klingons according to the episode's depiction itself, let alone most other trek, they would have fired. Did they find the 1 in a 10,000 Klingon that was a chicken? Lucky them.

There was also Judgment (Duras admits being beaten by a human); Marauders (the Klingons get their butts kicked and flee like terrified chickens. Real Klingons would have returned to their ship and blasted the hell out of that mining site).
What the heck: Broken Bow... a Klingon running away and hiding in the opening scene?

i agree with sfrabid.
we see different sets of klingons in tos that are not always honorable.

trouble with tribbles is one and elaan of troyius is another .
you see variations of it fridays children ect..

 

[commodore64]

Klingons in Enterprise behave more like the Klingons from TOS.

So what's the problem?

I think you mean Klingons in Enterprise should have behaved more like Klingons from TOS.

This was always a problem with Enterprise's portrayel of Klingons. Part of the reason to do a prequel was to use them again for the enemies. Yet almost every time they appeared, it was anti-climatic. First contact with the Klingons was described as a disaster in TNG and it's portrayed as completely anti-climatic and listless. The Klingons could care less when Archer and company show up. Then whenever you did find "bad" Klingons like in Marauders, the writers always took pains to tell us that they were rogue Klingons, not following the will of the Empire.

TNG and DS9 fleshed out the Klingons and made them more compelling characters. No question there. But if the Klingons were supposed to be villains in Enterprise, then they should have been portrayed as much. Not to mix of TOS and TNG where they are bad but "honorable" and only truly bad Klingons were performaning these isolated exercises in evil. They could never make up their mind whether they wanted them to be evil or honorable. They act friendly one minute then at the last minute, they yell at Archer to prove they're "evil." Just a mess.

Totally agree. For those who say the TOS and ENT Klingons are the same, I totally disagree. The TOS Klingons are depicted as warlike -- without honor -- almost more like the ENT Andorians.

 

[SFRabid]

Wasn't it a Klingon in disguise that poisoned the grain in "Trouble with Tribbles"? Seems like TOS got Klingons confused with Romulans. Good thing that TNG fixed that and made Klangons more like Klingons. Going even further, DS9 almost made them human.

 

[tobindax]

they are simply: human but aggressive. e.g. Vulcans are 100 times more intelligently depicted: They are shown to have been trying to repress feelings but at the same time there is a backstory that makes perfect sence: their physiology makes it easy to explode emotionally so some emotion-repressing meditation is constantly needed, makes sense. Klingons, what are they, humans from the dark ages.

Wait a second, I just had an epiphany. Sry for replying to my own reply but I think that logic goes somewhere: If Vulcans were aggressive in their ancient times and their developed a culture of meditation to repress their physiologically explosive feelings, what if Klingons are nothing but at that ancient stage of Vulcans. That'd be a twist. That of course wouldn't explain the paradox of having hateful aggressive people having developed remarkable technology (unless they stole it at a time) but anywho.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Klingons in Enterprise behave more like the Klingons from TOS.

So what's the problem?

I think you mean Klingons in Enterprise should have behaved more like Klingons from TOS.

This was always a problem with Enterprise's portrayel of Klingons. Part of the reason to do a prequel was to use them again for the enemies. Yet almost every time they appeared, it was anti-climatic. First contact with the Klingons was described as a disaster in TNG and it's portrayed as completely anti-climatic and listless. The Klingons could care less when Archer and company show up. Then whenever you did find "bad" Klingons like in Marauders, the writers always took pains to tell us that they were rogue Klingons, not following the will of the Empire.

TNG and DS9 fleshed out the Klingons and made them more compelling characters. No question there. But if the Klingons were supposed to be villains in Enterprise, then they should have been portrayed as much. Not to mix of TOS and TNG where they are bad but "honorable" and only truly bad Klingons were performaning these isolated exercises in evil. They could never make up their mind whether they wanted them to be evil or honorable. They act friendly one minute then at the last minute, they yell at Archer to prove they're "evil." Just a mess.

Totally agree. For those who say the TOS and ENT Klingons are the same, I totally disagree. The TOS Klingons are depicted as warlike -- without honor -- almost more like the ENT Andorians.

Honor is a relative concept.