Where No Man fits in?

[RobertScorpio]

Is it possible that Where No Man Has Gone Before takes place in the first year of the five year mission..and when the next episode comes along, Corbormite or Man Trap or whatever, that two years have passed (uniform change--ship looks different) and that season one of TOS is actually year 3 of the show? This would make since, I think, with the quote from Kirk to Spock in Amok time (year 4 of five year mission) when he says "in all the years I have known you"..ect...

What do you think?

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Christopher]

We know from Voyager: "Q2" that the 5-year mission ended in 2270, and the series proper is generally assumed to be 2266-9, which would make it years 2-4 of the 5YM, leaving an additional year for the animated series and whatever novels and/or comics you want to accept. "Where No Man" is generally placed in 2265 (which makes sense given that it was produced in 1965 and the series ran from 1966-9).

The changes in the ship's appearance are easy enough to explain without requiring two elapsed years. After all, the ship was badly damaged at the barrier, and thus presumably would be in need of a refit once it limped back home. Although it seems likely that limping back from the edge of the galaxy would take a long time.

Of course, there's no reason to assume that the galaxy-edge mission was part of the 5-year mission of the series proper. It could've been a separate, shorter-term mission preceding the 5-year tour of general exploration, support, and diplomatic missions that we saw in TOS/TAS. For some reason, fans are too quick to assume that all starship missions must be 5-year missions.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Is it possible that Where No Man Has Gone Before takes place in the first year of the five year mission..and when the next episode comes along, Corbormite or Man Trap or whatever, that two years have passed (uniform change--ship looks different) and that season one of TOS is actually year 3 of the show? This would make since, I think, with the quote from Kirk to Spock in Amok time (year 4 of five year mission) when he says "in all the years I have known you"..ect...

What do you think?

Rob
Scorpio

Rob,



I know it's not canon, but it was one person's interpretation that you might find interesting.

 

[Shatmandu]

I thought this thread was going to be about Nichelle Nichols' vagina.

Joe, base

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Of course, there's no reason to assume that the galaxy-edge mission was part of the 5-year mission of the series proper. It could've been a separate, shorter-term mission preceding the 5-year tour of general exploration, support, and diplomatic missions that we saw in TOS/TAS. For some reason, fans are too quick to assume that all starship missions must be 5-year missions.

I prefer this idea that the Galactic Edge, for lack of a better term, mission was outside of the Five-Year mission. You can also infer it from the Captain's Log in the pre-broadcast cut of WNMHB, where Kirk states that their mission up until that point was space law regulation and contact with Earth colonies Then he dramatically states that they have a new mission, "a probe out to where no man has gone before."

It seems from the way everyone acts at the beginning of the episode that this is a specific mission profile that has nothing to do with any other long-term exploration directives like the Five-Year.

 

[Christopher]

^^Also, the idea of the Edge mission as separate from the 5YM allows more room in the 5YM for novels, comics, short stories, etc. Not all of them, of course; by this point, there have been enough stories set in the 5-year mission to take up 10 or 15 years.

Of course, it's possible the new movie will scuttle that idea by having the crew set out on a 5-year mission immediately after they first come together.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^^Also, the idea of the Edge mission as separate from the 5YM allows more room in the 5YM for novels, comics, short stories, etc. Not all of them, of course; by this point, there have been enough stories set in the 5-year mission to take up 10 or 15 years.

Fo' sure.

Of course, it's possible the new movie will scuttle that idea by having the crew set out on a 5-year mission immediately after they first come together.

Well, at least, it'll give us all on the BBS something new to argue-- um, I mean debate-- about. Should be interesting around here after next May.

 

[cooleddie74]

Here's my timeline conjecture that I've held for several years now:

April 2265: Kirk's five year mission begins

September 2265: WNMHGB. The Galactic Barrier/Delta Vega mission.

Between Sep. 2265 and summer 2266: The Enterprise receives a minor series of equipment and system refits that include new Starfleet uniform tunics as well as altered appearances for many rooms aboard the ship.

September 2266: "The Corbomite Maneuver."

 

[Phoenicianknight]

I don't really care how it all fits in, it was fun to watch which ever way either way.

I just never, not in my life time, nor my children's lifetime,

Do I ever want the Star Trek manskirt to make another appearance.

 

[erastus25]

It's not canon, but my personal interpretation is that WNMHGB is a separate short-term mission (several months to a year) set before the 5-year mission. To make this fit I assume that the Galactic Barrier is a fair distance from space regularly traveled by the Federation and thus they sent the Enterprise on a separate mission so as not to divert another ship from its mission for several months. It was also an audition for Kirk, Spock and the others, which they passed, and were subsequently given a 5-year mission.

 

[Christopher]

To make this fit I assume that the Galactic Barrier is a fair distance from space regularly traveled by the Federation and thus they sent the Enterprise on a separate mission so as not to divert another ship from its mission for several months.

I don't think it's even necessary to postulate that. People tend to assume that 5-year missions are somehow the default for all ships, hence your suggestion that any different mission profile is an aberration that requires justification. But there's absolutely no evidence that 5-year missions are standard. We know of exactly one starship that had a 5-year mission, namely the Enterprise. We have never, ever heard a specific reference to any other starship at any other time being assigned to a 5-year mission, except in non-canonical sources like novels and fan reference books.

So it could just as easily be the other way around: that the norm is to assign ships to specific, focused missions of limited duration (which is actually closer to the case in a real-life navy), with the Enterprise's extended, broad-based 5-year tour being an atypical one. Or it could be that both types of mission are commonplace. Either way, a specific mission to the galactic rim is a type of mission profile that would be pretty commonplace, not requiring any special explanation.

 

[Red Ranger]

I thought this thread was going to be about Nichelle Nichols' vagina.

Joe, base

Speak for yourself, bro! I know mine would fit!

Back on topic, I think WNMHGB is early in the five-year mission, but as someone else above pointed out, don't think it would take a year for the Enterprise to be refitted to the appearance we are most familiar with.

So in my view, maybe six months pass between the ep and the next earlier one. Enough time to get new uniforms and for a refit to be completed.

Red Ranger

 

[cooleddie74]

Six to twelve months between "WNMHGB" and "Corbomite". I conjecture an entire year.

 

[pookha]

even if a five year mission was common what happened in wnmhgb could have taken place at what would have been the tail end of the five year mission for pike.
but , pike is unexpectedly for some reason promoted and kirk is bought in to be the new commander and finish out the five year mission.
it would fit in with why they doing political house calls ect and were starting out just then on a big exploration mission.

the mission had been adjusted slightly with a new commander .

so then where no man has gone before could have been the end of that five year mission then a short period of time for a refit then they go back out on a new five year mission.

though i also like the point that we dont know how common the five year mission was for starfleet.

 

[erastus25]

To make this fit I assume that the Galactic Barrier is a fair distance from space regularly traveled by the Federation and thus they sent the Enterprise on a separate mission so as not to divert another ship from its mission for several months.

I don't think it's even necessary to postulate that. People tend to assume that 5-year missions are somehow the default for all ships, hence your suggestion that any different mission profile is an aberration that requires justification. But there's absolutely no evidence that 5-year missions are standard. We know of exactly one starship that had a 5-year mission, namely the Enterprise. We have never, ever heard a specific reference to any other starship at any other time being assigned to a 5-year mission, except in non-canonical sources like novels and fan reference books.

So it could just as easily be the other way around: that the norm is to assign ships to specific, focused missions of limited duration (which is actually closer to the case in a real-life navy), with the Enterprise's extended, broad-based 5-year tour being an atypical one. Or it could be that both types of mission are commonplace. Either way, a specific mission to the galactic rim is a type of mission profile that would be pretty commonplace, not requiring any special explanation.

Excellent point. I like my theory even more now.

As an aside, I've never bought the theory that the lack of Kirk's narration in WNMHGB is a justification for the belief that the episode is outside the 5-year realm. It's not like captains in the ST reality are reciting their speech every time they go on a new mission. The opening credits are just filler and should not be considered part of canon, in my opinion.

 

[Christopher]

^^Indeed. Outside of the opening narration, there's nothing in TOS itself to prove that they even were on a 5-year mission rather than an open-ended one or just a variety of different assignments as needed. The only canonical evidence is in ST:TMP, where Kirk's "five years out there" as Enterprise captain are referenced several times. But those five years are never clearly referred to as an assigned mission duration.

One thing to keep in mind, also, is that the original idea behind Kirk's log entries and narrations is that they were meant to be reporting on the events after the fact, to make these fanciful events seem a bit more grounded by having them portrayed as something that had already happened and was being described in retrospect -- much like literature in the 17th-early 20th centuries usually presented fictional tales, especially fantasy/SF/horror tales, as though they were true stories where the author was one of the participants in the tale (Gulliver, Dr. Watson, Mina Harker) or had been told the tale by or found a manuscript by the protagonist (the Time Traveler, John Carter of Mars). So one could interpret the opening TOS narration as something looking back on the mission after its completion. Even if it's treated as genuine, it doesn't necessarily prove that the Enterprise's mission was designed to be five years long, simply that it ended up being five years long.

 

[Red Ranger]

A bit off topic, but still relevant, is I'm glad they got rid of that phrase in TNG and replaced it with "its continuing mission," which I think made its debut at the end of TWOK, so as not to hamstring the movies or the series. Just as glad as how they changed it to "where no one has gone before." Nyah, nyah! -- RR

 

[erastus25]

A bit off topic, but still relevant, is I'm glad they got rid of that phrase in TNG and replaced it with "its continuing mission," which I think made its debut at the end of TWOK, so as not to hamstring the movies or the series. Just as glad as how they changed it to "where no one has gone before." Nyah, nyah! -- RR

It's also good they changed it to "no one". Not just for the feminists out there but also because there are aliens on the Enterprise!

 

[Mr. Fergy]

I thought this thread was going to be about Nichelle Nichols' vagina.

Joe, base

We wish.

 

[cooleddie74]

I thought this thread was going to be about Nichelle Nichols' vagina.

Joe, base

We wish.

"Pleasure folds open, sir..."