What if the Stargazer was destroyed at Zeta Maxima?

[Kaziarl]

I dunno, I would think activeness would make it harder. Something about not being in the same place twice. And I'm sure there have been other derelicts, I just don't recall them. And you didn't comment on the dyson sphere. It's still a valid argument considereing they practically tripped over it at a full run.

 

[Basill]

I haven't read Christopher's Buried Age, though I must say I am now more motivated to do so than ever. That being said, the book's explanation given in this post sounds like the best explanation I have ever heard for the scenario that eventually played out in The Battle. Also, I see no necessary implication of remote control of the Starship after they abandoned it. Again I haven't read the book or know anything about a PADD control, but once the ship was put on auto pilot (with what limited control the damaged computers may have had) or simply aimed and shot in the proper direction with hopes of gravity's mastery doing its job, there would have been no one on board for necessary course corrections after Picard and crew had abandoned her.

Picard's final log entry, regardless of his post-incarnation philosophies (a debatable subject) may have just been Jean-Luc waxing poetic as he was known to do from time to time. Considering the spooky nostalgic music that played in that scene, that is how I have always interpreted it.

Upon the crew's rescue weeks later, Starfleet may have done a limited search for any remains of the Stargazer; a just-in-case scenario. But based on Picard's scuttle intent and the crew's corroborating testimony, not finding anything immediately may have been enough to abandon any hope of rescuing the ship and any lost Federation technology. Again, the age of the vessel may have made this less of a priority. There could also have been some odd interference, due to the nature of the Maxia Zeta star system, which might have augmented barriers to a search for the unpowered derelict. But that's just speculation.

Daimon Bok on the other hand may have been more passionate in his search, discovering the Stargazer by chance, in a desperate search to find any trace of his lost son's vessel.

 

[USS Fardell]

Ah, good point. But Starfleet might be thinking in terms of realism: the odds of somebody stumbling onto a dead starship are virtually zero, unless that somebody possesses such advanced sensors as to put Starfleet to shame.

Does "the Battle of Maxia"—assuming Maxia isn't Ferengi for "middle of freakin' nowhere"—imply proximity to, say, the Maxia star system or other astronomical [heh ... I actually wrote astrological first, here; feel free to yank on my Freudian slip] phenomenon? Such would greatly increase the likelihood of discovery. After all, if Starfleet was investigating the area, others might well be inclined to do so, as well.

It is mentioned in The Buried Age that:

TNG's Starfleet strikes me as far more idealistic than to simply consign one of their ships to the cold dark, but ... see below.

A ship closer to home might have been subject to a PD sanitation team mission. But it's possible that Picard was too far outside the actual operating theater of Starfleet, and it simply wasn't affordable to enforce the Prime Directive to the fullest.

Yep. It might well have been functionally impossible.

Agreed.

We would not have had to sit through "The Battle."

Maybe, but did you read the whole post?

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I haven't read Christopher's Buried Age, though I must say I am now more motivated to do so than ever. That being said, the book's explanation given in this post sounds like the best explanation I have ever heard for the scenario that eventually played out in The Battle. Also, I see no necessary implication of remote control of the Starship after they abandoned it. Again I haven't read the book or know anything about a PADD control, but once the ship was put on auto pilot (with what limited control the damaged computers may have had) or simply aimed and shot in the proper direction with hopes of gravity's mastery doing its job, there would have been no one on board for necessary course corrections after Picard and crew had abandoned her.

That, and shortly after setting her on autopilot the survivors from the Stargazer in the various shuttles and escape pods left in a sort of convoy at the fastest warp speed the things could do.

Picard's final log entry, regardless of his post-incarnation philosophies (a debatable subject) may have just been Jean-Luc waxing poetic as he was known to do from time to time. Considering the spooky nostalgic music that played in that scene, that is how I have always interpreted it.

In The Buried Age, it's argued as more of a metaphorical statement, sort of like a brief eulogy in a way. (Oh, and that was something that Philippa Louvois used against him during the court martial).

Upon the crew's rescue weeks later, Starfleet may have done a limited search for any remains of the Stargazer; a just-in-case scenario. But based on Picard's scuttle intent and the crew's corroborating testimony, not finding anything immediately may have been enough to abandon any hope of rescuing the ship and any lost Federation technology. Again, the age of the vessel may have made this less of a priority. There could also have been some odd interference, due to the nature of the Maxia Zeta star system, which might have augmented barriers to a search for the unpowered derelict. But that's just speculation.

I don't know if I'm remembering things correctly, but I don't think Starfleet sends any search for the Stargazer. Since it was put on autopilot towards a nearby gas giant, and I think the crew stayed long enough to watch it get there, Starfleet just takes their word. I think the book said that it took a while, but a few weeks later the Stargazer finally came back out of the atmosphere of the gas giant, having hit it at enough of an angle. And the Stargazer was an aging ship. It might have been fairly new back when Picard took command in 2332 or whenever, but even then it had been around for a while. And this is 2355 when the ship is lost, so it was a fairly old ship.

Daimon Bok on the other hand may have been more passionate in his search, discovering the Stargazer by chance, in a desperate search to find any trace of his lost son's vessel.

Actually, Bok doesn't have to look for it. He goes to where his son was last, and there's the ship. And when he hears Picard's log entry, he begins to plot revenge.

ETA: Someone earlier asked about the Maxia Zeta system, and if there was anything of interest to cause others to come. Not really. Maxia Zeta is a relatively uninteresting star system, with no life on any planets and little interesting anomalies or anything really worth the effort. The only reason Picard is excited to be there at the beginning of the book is because of its lack of being explored.

 

[Basill]

Actually, Bok doesn't have to look for it. He goes to where his son was last, and there's the ship. And when he hears Picard's log entry, he begins to plot revenge.

Well, that is sort of what I meant. Whereas a Starfleet search (if any) would have been quick and dirty, given their impression that the ship had been scuttled, Bok would have been searching fervently for his lost son (however unprofitable) and instead would have happened upon the Stargazer, where all his answers were revealed.

I find it hard to believe the ship managed itself out of the gas giant's atmosphere, but I still look forward to reading the book and seeing how it all works out.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Actually, Bok doesn't have to look for it. He goes to where his son was last, and there's the ship. And when he hears Picard's log entry, he begins to plot revenge.

Well, that is sort of what I meant. Whereas a Starfleet search (if any) would have been quick and dirty, given their impression that the ship had been scuttled, Bok would have been searching fervently for his lost son (however unprofitable) and instead would have happened upon the Stargazer, where all his answers were revealed.

I find it hard to believe the ship managed itself out of the gas giant's atmosphere, but I still look forward to reading the book and seeing how it all works out.

I present to you all an excerpt from The Buried Age, by Monsieur Christopher L. Bennett:

Spoiler: The Buried Age excerpt

Once this was under way, Picard realized there was one more duty he had to perform before leaving his ship behind for the last time. He struck his commbadge. "Picard to Stargazer computer."

"Working."

He resisted an irrational temptation to apologize. "Cap-" His voice dissolved in choking. "Captain's log. Final entry, stardate...three-two-two-one-seven point four." He noticed his crew members looking at him, and he held their gaze as he began to speak. But no great valedictory speech came to him, no stirring words to inspire hope. In all likelihood, the computer recording this entry would be burned away to nothing within two weeks' time. So all he said was, "We are forced to abandon our starship. May she find her way without us."

I'm sorry.

Fifteen days later

Science officer Skwart came up to Bok uneasily, his reluctance to speak sincere rather than an invitation for a bribe. Bok had been in a simmering rage, quick to unleash his anger upon his crew since they had confirmed the destruction of his son's ship. Worse, it had been no accident. He had been slain by the occupants of the battered, half-radioactive vessel that Bok's crew had salvaged from the fringes of the giant planet's atmosphere. The vessel they had identified as belonging to the Federation Starfleet.

Bok skewered the science officer with his gaze, impatient to learn all he could about the assasins. "Report! Is the ship a trap?"

"We do not believe so, DaiMon. Analysis of the scorch patterns on its hull suggests that it must have first fallen into the planet's atmosphere some days ago. By a thousand-to-one shot, its disk hit at just the right angle to skim off the atmosphere and bounce back out. That gave it enough velocity to remain in a decaying orbit long enough for us to find her." Skwart shook his head. "It was an amazing fluke of luck, DaiMon, the kind a Ferengi dreams of his whole life! We are truly blessed by the River to have such a valuable acquisition as this ship dropped into our hands!"

Bok glared at him. "Blessed, science officer? You dare to say that after the loss I have suffered?!"

Skwart cringed. "I meant no disrespect to your son, DaiMon. I simply meant that we can always find comfort in profit."

To Bok, the words rang hollow. The profit he could gain from this ship's technological secrets brought him no comfort, any more than did the mineral wealth of this system. His son, the only male heir his useless mate had ever spawned, was dead. Bok no longer had a legacy; upon his death, his wealth would be scattered on the waves of the Great River. So what was the point of wealth?

But Bok was too shrewd a negotiator to reveal such blasphemous thoughts; that could lead to his sanity being challenged, his command and wealth being taken from him. He might not care about those things for their own sake anymore, but they were still useful tools for pursuing the only goal that still mattered. He would keep this rage to himself, hold it inside him until he could find a worthy beneficiary to offer it...as a gift. The thrill of the obscene thought gave him the strength to continue.

The derelict was abandoned, its hangars empty. So the killers of his son had survived, no doubt escaped back to their Federation. That put them beyond his reach for now. But he understood how to let an investment mature. He would have the time he needed to prepare a suitable revenge, and be ready to spring it once open contact was finally made.

Gazing at the ship on the main viewer, he decided that it would be the instrument of his vengeance. Its crew must have thought it lost forever, doomed to destruction in a gas planet's bottomless atmosphere. Imagine its captain's joy when Bok found him and offered the ship to him again. It would be a precious item he would gladly reclaim, like the fabled treasure chest of Narj. And once he took the chest into his vault, the trap would be sprung.

"Prepare for warp tow," he ordered. "We will take the ship with us."

Skwart grinned, the familiar light of avarice in his eyes. "Very good, DaiMon! We will profit handsomely from the technologies we can salvage from this ship."

"No! The ship is mine, Skwart, and I intend to keep it intact. Indeed, I want you and the engineering teams to work on decontaminating it and restoring it to operating condition."

"Ah...I see. You wish to sell it as a collectible?"

"It is for my own private use. Ask no further, Skwart. You will be well enough compensated for your labor."

"Thank you, DaiMon." Skwart hesitated. "But what of the Nagus and the GuiMon? They might have other ideas for the ship."

"I will offer them the mining rights to this system in exchange for letting me keep it."

Skwart gasped. "All the mining rights, sir?"

Bok realized he had shown too much of his hand. "I meant a suitable percentage, obviously, you idiot. Now, proceed with the towing operation!"

Skwart acknowledged the command and hurried away to oblige. Bok resumed staring at the eyesore of a ship, memorizing its every line and contour. This ship had been used to murder his son, and now he claimed it as just compensation. But it was only a means toward his true compensation, a price that would not be paid until he found the commander of this vessel.

Days later, in Bok's private shipyard, enough of the ship had been decontaminated to allow his crew to access the vessel's computer system. Bok listened to its logs, heard the voice of its captain. He learned the name of the man who killed his son.

Zhon Look Picard, he mused. What kind of man is he? And what will become of him between now and the day when I take my revenge? Will he be disgraced for losing his ship, or rewarded for destroying a defenseless enemy? Will I find him wealthy and flourishing, or destitute on the streets?

Where will the River take you, Captain Picard?

And...exeunt.

 

[Red Ranger]

^Vixen: Thanks for posting that excerpt. Makes me want to read that story now. I like how the writer tied up all the loose ends regarding why the Stargazer wasn't destroyed, as well as describing the slowly burnning hatred Bok had toward Picard. -- RR

 

[Timo]

Some minutiae:

I dunno, I would think activeness would make it harder. Something about not being in the same place twice.

The point would be that an active ship would emit stuff: warp fields, unusual concentrations of neutrinos, whatever. If there were no emissions, the ship would essentially be a miniature asteroid, a dead rock that would only register if you bombarded it with the emissions of a radar-like device; if there were emissions, passive sensors would have a chance of picking up the ship against the inert background of space.

Essentially, the difference would be like between an extinguished torch in the night, and a lit one... A good pair of binoculars would let you spot the torch from a considerable distance if lit, but you might pass it by two centimeters otherwise and not notice a thing. Easily a millionfold difference.

And you didn't comment on the dyson sphere. It's still a valid argument considereing they practically tripped over it at a full run.

Perhaps; but the fact that you might notice a structure the size of a solar system doesn't exactly translate to your spotting structures the size of starships at any regularity.

And speaking of regularity, the Jenolan was supposedly on a milk run to a well-established colony, apparently a popular retirement spot for weird-accented engineers, when she was forced out of warp by a rare malfunction and spotted the sphere. Apparently, none of the previous, non-malfunctioning Federation travelers of the route had made the discovery...

The fact that the star's radiation was masked by a giant veil was apparently enough to make it unobservable; the gravitic pull was the first telltale that the Jenolan or the E-D observed, although I'm sure other things could have been seen after they knew where to look. When a largely non-radiating object the size of a star system can hide from Starfleet along a frequented spacelane despite having massive gravitic pull and possible thermal exhaust of some sort, the odds of anybody stumbling onto an even less radiating object a trillionth of the size begin to seem dim.

Still, some relevant examples of Starfleet stumbling onto dead spacecraft:

In TOS "Space Seed", the Botany Bay was essentially dead. She had a radio beacon going, but it seems that Spock's "sensor readings" were what lured our heroes there in the first place, and Uhura picked up the beacon only after the ship was in the crosshairs. Passersby with 23rd century Starfleet sensors and Spocklike skills should thus have been able to pick up the Stargazer, too.

In TNG "The Neutral Zone", the cryosatellite was essentially dead. However, she was within a solar system where our heroes were already present and idly scanning the surroundings. The proximity would improve the odds a lot - but then again, if the Stargazer remained in the Maxia Zeta system, passersby would enjoy proximity, too.

Timo Saloniemi