Destruction of NCC-1701

[Jon1701]

Was anyone else thrilled when they used the same code they used in the series?

Yes. It rocked.

Only thing the bugs me, and this is my inner star trek nerd (which admittedly - ony shows up after you've seen the movie fifty times or so) - is that Kirk's final code for the one minute countdown.

"zero, zero, zero...destruct...zero"

Which is four "0's" even though three show up onscreen. I've spent many an hour trying to rationalise it.

Sometimes I fucking hate being a nerd

That's because "000" is the final code. "Destruct Zero" is the type of destruct specified. Destruct Zero detonates charges throughout the ship, rendering it a useless hulk. Destruct One would blow the reactor in a huge nuclear fireball, incinerating everything within a few hundred kilometers.

I suppose. Sure does take a long time for that final "0" to appear on the screen (ie after the "destruct zero").

Anyone would think they were using 1980's Computers...

 

[Krieg1981]

I thought the whole affair was great! A glorious way for a legend to die. Although there was more damage on the hull in III than I remember there being in II. Any thoughts?

 

[cardinal biggles]

There was. ILM added more exterior scarring on the starboard side of Engineering even though Khan didn't score any hits there. Most likely it's because in so many shots, we see the Enterprise in profile from starboard, or she's moving across the screen from left to right.

 

[trevanian]

I'm still surprised at how gutsy the whole thing was. I mean, Kirk blows up the Enterprise on a gamble that a lone Klingon stuck on board the Bird of Prey wouldn't just warp away.

Well, he couldn't let the Klingons take the Enterprise and, by destroying the ship, he knew he could kill a lot of them, making the take-over of their ship more possible. To do that, he needed to get aboard and that's where beaming down to the planet to save Saavik and Spock came in, since Krudge thought that Kirk and possibly Spock and Saavik knew the secret to Genesis.

It was indeed a brilliant and very gutsy move.

To me it was perhaps as stupid a move as Kirk ever made, cementing for me Bennett's inability to plot for beans. You beam to the other ship, not to a disintegrating planet where you have to talk yourself up from after. It would have even been better if the self-destruct didn't go off, and then Kirk had to destroy the Enterprise himself from the BOP ... SFS squanders everything good from TWOK.

 

[rocketscientist]

I'm still surprised at how gutsy the whole thing was. I mean, Kirk blows up the Enterprise on a gamble that a lone Klingon stuck on board the Bird of Prey wouldn't just warp away.

Well, he couldn't let the Klingons take the Enterprise and, by destroying the ship, he knew he could kill a lot of them, making the take-over of their ship more possible. To do that, he needed to get aboard and that's where beaming down to the planet to save Saavik and Spock came in, since Krudge thought that Kirk and possibly Spock and Saavik knew the secret to Genesis.

It was indeed a brilliant and very gutsy move.

To me it was perhaps as stupid a move as Kirk ever made, cementing for me Bennett's inability to plot for beans. You beam to the other ship, not to a disintegrating planet where you have to talk yourself up from after. It would have even been better if the self-destruct didn't go off, and then Kirk had to destroy the Enterprise himself from the BOP ... SFS squanders everything good from TWOK.

I was wondering about that myself. I can only assume that the BOP had some sort of transporter beam scrambler or perhaps it was keeping its shields up, enabling it to only beam the Klingons aboard and not giving Kirk and company a window to beam over. Remember, the BOP had taken some damage but was still largely operational.

I just assumed there was some reason why that couldn't be done. I do think Bennett probably should've put in some explanation why they couldn't beam over to the Klingon ship.

Also, if Kirk was on the Klingon BOP, who would save Saavik and Spock? They'd be beaming on a Klinon ship they weren't familiar with and Krudge would still have his hostages who he could very well have killed if he knew Kirk was taking over his ship. After the destruction of the Enterprise, Kirk had the element of surprise and made it his priority to save Saavik and Spock. He figured Krudge would still want Genesis and that gave him some leverage.

Anyway, that's how I look at it.

 

[Timo]

I don't think it should be difficult to understand at all. If Kirk beamed aboard the Klingon ship before the Klingons beamed over, he would be outnumbered by a horde of heavily armed warriors. If he beamed aboard the Klingon ship after the Klingons beamed over, they'd simply beam back while Kruge and Maltz fought a delaying battle.

No, first the balance of Klingons had to be lured to their deaths and be dealt with, and then Kirk could attempt to take over the enemy vessel. The Klingons were unrealistic idiots in trying to commandeer a ship supposedly filled with enemy soldiers, but "unrealistic idiots" was their plot function in the movie anyway. Kirk couldn't have been similarly stupid, as this wasn't his plot function here (although it had been in ST:TMP and ST2, where rather realistically the old and rusty paper-pusher screwed up and endangered everybody).

Also, fully agreed about the hostage thing. Saavik and Spock were Kirk's primary concern; for all he knew, he would be safe down on the planet forever if he managed to defeat those Klingons on the surface. At worst, Kruge would come after him, at which point he could wring further vengeance for his son. Kirk would only much later learn that there was a time limit for their stay.

A curiosity about the boarding scene, though: the Klingons seem to arrive via a Federation transporter beam.

Nothing technologically impossible about that, of course. The two transporter systems could have been rigged to work together (so the Klingons would disassemble in a sparkle of red and reassemble in a sparkle of blue), or then the transport was solely managed by the Starfleet unit. But we know the Klingon ship had transporters of her own - why would the warriors agree to risk their lives on enemy hardware?

Unlike the general logic of the boarding action, this probably requires a bit of rationalization not explicitly given in the movie. Kruge's transporter could have been on the fritz after Kirk's attack and would only be repaired later on - which is also why Kruge couldn't beam his boarding party to safety when he realized what was going on.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RyanKCR]

Kirk, knowing that Kruge believed him to know all about and have the data about Genesis, should have threated self destruct if Kruge killed any of the hostages. We know Kirk is the master of the Bluff against impossible odds. I think the self destruct was a waste on Bennett's part, although it did add to Kirk's character.

 

[JuanBolio]

On the other hand, such a bluff might have offended Kruge to the point where he'd have Spock killed. Spock being the whole cause behind the sacrifice of his career and the death of his son. At that point I think Kirk was done dicking around - shit's getting blown up, Klingons are gonna die, etc etc etc....

 

[trevanian]

I don't think it should be difficult to understand at all. If Kirk beamed aboard the Klingon ship before the Klingons beamed over, he would be outnumbered by a horde of heavily armed warriors. If he beamed aboard the Klingon ship after the Klingons beamed over, they'd simply beam back while Kruge and Maltz fought a delaying battle.

The beaming seems to take place simultaneously (if it wasn't arranged that way, then it sure LOOKS like it, since another couple seconds and we'd have had THE FLY telepod accident happening.)

If Kirk was beaming over WHILE the prize crew beamed in, he'd have had Kruge and Maltz cold, and could have dictated to the numbheadlings down below from that point. Deal from strength, not from stupidity.

 

[JuanBolio]

Or he might possibly have disarmed the Klingons in mid-transport, or reduced them to their component molecules and beamed them out into space, but none of that would've helped the hostage situation on the planet.

 

[RyanKCR]

On the other hand, such a bluff might have offended Kruge to the point where he'd have Spock killed. Spock being the whole cause behind the sacrifice of his career and the death of his son. At that point I think Kirk was done dicking around - shit's getting blown up, Klingons are gonna die, etc etc etc....

But Kruge wanted Kirk and the Enterprise that supposedly held the data on Genesis. Kruge was even stupid enough to knowingly kill one of the scientists on the project. It was just bad writing on Bennet's part in order to get rid of the Enterprise.

 

[JuanBolio]

Eh - it was drama, and very Kirk-like. I think it fits, and it was a great way to give the old girl a send-off.

 

[RyanKCR]

Eh - it was drama, and very Kirk-like. I think it fits, and it was a great way to give the old girl a send-off.

I agree but I hated that my favorite starship was destroyed.

 

[JuanBolio]

All good things...

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

I'll never understand why so many people are okay with the action/plot/battle/1701 blow-up in TSFS---but they are!!!

Basically the ending has 'one-shot each' exchange between the BOP & the Ent and then a single mano a mano between Kirk & Kruge. that's it.

The powerful Ent being destroyed by a scout ship (whatever the circumstances) is unfitting to my thinking. We don't see Saavik or the other Ent crew contribute to any fighting as opposed to Day of the Dove etc---Saavik is sound asleep when taken by the klingons !!!! Everybody in Starfleet are incompetant jerks.

Why doesn't Maltz resist--yes of course he'd lose & die, but he's a Klingon--why not go down shooting? Hey maybe even a couple ar errant shots would disable the BOP and deny its use to Kirk. Why is it that the guard on Genesis be shot by Kirk--why not have his ass kicked by Sulu or Chekov??

I don't ecpect to have Die hard style action but why not take advantadge of the action opportunites the story gives you??

Hey, but folks wanted Spock back and they got him and they were pretty much hapy.

 

[trevanian]

Why is it that the guard on Genesis be shot by Kirk--why not have his ass kicked by Sulu or Chekov??

I don't ecpect to have Die hard style action but why not take advantadge of the action opportunites the story gives you??

Hey, but folks wanted Spock back and they got him and they were pretty much hapy.

I agree with all your points ... personally, I thought it'd've been good if Kirk stumbled and went down when about to shoot the klingon guard ... then you hear a whine and realize Scott, Sulu and Chekov have ALL shot the guard simultaneously.

I'd've been as happy if Spock stayed dead ... especially if in the course of SFS they realized that maybe some things are worth dying for and others are worth staying dead for. If they had gone out just to save Spock, but then realized the klingons had a genesis scientist and would twist the thumbscrews on him, they SHOULD realize that is the bigger issue. Kirk letting his son die to preserve the knowledge of the process would have been better than the limpass stuff they did.

Yet when I think of a couple bits in SFS ... the "i hear you" kirk says to Morrow is one ... I realize how good it could have been, and how good it SHOULD have been. Pisses me off even more than watching it again. Most squandered trek feature opportunity IMO (outside of not doing an Ent-B thing, that is.)

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

^^Yes, there are parts of TSFS I absolutely love.
I think you could have shown their teamwork and loyalty without showing the rest of starfleet as losers.
I think they could have stolen the Ent and had a slam-bang last act of BOTH action & character stuff.
They really needed to hire a good writer to do the follow-up rather than just giving the producer the aditional paycheck.

I love the score, the new ships, the family aspects, having Sarek, but they forgot a lot of what made the second movie great.
Trek's biggest lost opportunity because they had a great movie right behind them and they didn't need to stray as far as they did.

I guess we folks who think they should have left Spock dead are in a tiny minority.
And also the running time---105 minutes?? Plus the fact that between flashbacks, recitng dialogue from TWOK, reviewing 'flight recorder footage' looong end credits you barely have 90 minutes of new material !!!!

Oh yes and Colicos or Ansara as the klingon captain---oh but wait Chris Lloyd is a 'big star' and a 'great get' Put all the leather on him you want he still looks fragile & burnt-out to me.

Can you imagine Ansara's booming voice and climactic showdown at the end??? Maybe even Uhura kicking Mara's ass instead of threatening jr. officers??

 

[InklingStar]

Wow, I'm surprised theres an explanation that actually makes perfect sense

I loved that line as the ship is burning up "my god bones...what have I done?"

Tho I think McCoy should have stopped at "what you had to do"..the rest of his words were just hammy

I like McCoy's lines here. It hearkens back to TWoK, where Kirk spoke of "cheating death".

 

[Colonel Midnight]

They gave one of the biggest stars of the entire series an ignominious end. ... The biggest single blight on all of TOS-dom. Fizzle.

I completely disagree. The 1701 was destroyed so her captain and crew could live and complete their mission to save Spock. I've always seen it as a quite honorable way for the old girl to go. And her "death" scene was handled with respect and dignity. I've never had a problem with how big (or little) the explosion was. The sequence is well done and effective and, quite honestly, chokes me up a bit every time I see it.

Me too. That whole sequence had so much drama. I actually think I was more horrified by the destruction of the Enterprise than I was of Spock. The Enterprise always got out of scrapes with gods, Klingons, Romulans, space amoebas, etc. I always had the sense it would go on, especially after TWOK. In TSFS, the Enterprise took one hit too many and gave her life to give Kirk and his crew a chance to live.


The destruction of the Ent-D wasn't nearly as good. Yeah, it was cool to look at, but drama-wise it definitely didn't pack the punch that the death of the original did. That was truly the end of an era and a seminal event in ST.

Actually, I'd put the death of the original Enterprise second only to Spock's death in ST in terms of impact.

Ditto here -- The death of ENT-A is a sucker punch every time. Even today.

For the ENT-D, I actually kind of cheered when it got destroyed. Never liked it's "Swan Struggling to Swallow A Dinner Plate" look...

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Ronald Held]

The 1701 was more than a ship to me, so it did have an impact when it when down. Not so for the 1701-D, not much of an impact at all.