whos your fave?

[exodus]

It kinds sounds like many just want formula and wanting the next Trek show to be similar to the one before it. I think that's why Voy. like ENT found an audience outside the standard long time Trek ones. While they varied in degrees of success, I see Voy & ENT. trying to expand Treks fanbase beyond the "Trekkie" crowd and bring in viewers that would never watch Trek in the past. Characters like Tom, Seven & Be'Lanna weren't as stuffy as the TNG crew, they were more like common people and easier to relate too.

If Trek is too grow and survive, it has to break from what we've become accustomed too and not appeal to the "next" generation but too a "new" one. If JJ Abrams gives us a Trek retelling like Nolan did for Batman with Batman Begins, then Trek will be reborn.

I agree with you 100%. I have always felt that if Star Trek wants to find itself a highly successful place in the hearts of TV watchers again than it will have to be completely revamped. I'm talking new writers, new characters, new ships and new ideas. The "same old" thing isn't going to be successful but they will still need to keep that special element that makes Star Trek...Star Trek, so that it won't those the millions of loyal fans it already has.

I'm not saying it is an easy job, and might I add I am glad it is not mine , but I think it can be done. I hope they don't jump into anything because they are desparate to get a show on TV. Afterall, it has only been 3 years since ENT was on TV.

Also, on a side note, I also agree that "Fire pasers" and "Yes, Captain" or "Rerouting auxillary power to the lateral thrusters erray" doesn't count as quality screen time. Quality screen time is when a characters gets numerous episodes to focus on their trials and tribulations to show them growing as characters.

The problem is that if they are changing too much, like giving in for current trends, making it "darker" or so, they might lose their regular fanbase and if they do, they are dead. Because the new fanbase they might attract may not be as loyal, they will move on to the next novelty while the regular fanbase will turn their backs on the new Trek completely.

They got to keep the regular fanbase who are actually keeping Trek alive, while at the same time try to attract new fans, just like TNG did in the end of the 80:s. Not an easy task.

Personally I think that they must use and develope what's best in Trek which is: Good characters, good stories and the original premise of a better future for mankind.

As for the characters, if they have 9 characters, then all of them must have a chance to shine. OK, the captain and maybe the first officer might get a little more screen time, like Picard and Riker, Kirk and Spock.

DS9 had all that but it didn't stop the declining viewership amoung Trek's current fanbase.

Paramount doesn't have time for the fickle Trek fanbase to catch up after the fact, if Trek is to survive then it needs results now. If that means leaving some of the fanbase behind, then so be it. It worked for TNG and again for NuBSG. After all, change breeds progression.

 

[AuntKate]

TNG and DS9 had the luxury of not having to please the suits at a network. I think the best thing for Trek is to be independently produced--but that isn't going to happen.

 

[kimc]

TNG and DS9 had the luxury of not having to please the suits at a network. I think the best thing for Trek is to be independently produced--but that isn't going to happen.

Or at least have suits who allow the creative personnel to be creative without being micro-managed. At least, that seems to be working for Battlestar Galactica.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

To answer the question (and this is odd, since I rarely pop into the Voyager forum) Kathryn Janeway is my favorite character, although B'Elanna is a close second.

 

[Captain Proton]

I want to change my vote to Kes...I've been watching the first season and the beginning of the second and I had forgotten how awesome Kes is! If it wasn't for her The Doctor would still be treated like a hypospray and there's just something about her as an actor that makes her character seem so genuine. (Not to mention how cute she is)

Kes FTW!

 

[AstroMike]

Paris. He just seemed like the common man in space. As a guy in my late 20's and early 30's at the time he was easy to identify with. I also love old B Sci Fi movies and Captain Proton rocked.

 

[MiralParis]

Paris. He just seemed like the common man in space. As a guy in my late 20's and early 30's at the time he was easy to identify with. I also love old B Sci Fi movies and Captain Proton rocked.

As a woman, Paris is just damn sexy. His a rebel and he's totally adorable, such a fly boy! His character had some highly interesting quirks and his interest in all things involving the 20th century was great It was a cool way to link Star Trek to our time and therefore connect the two in an identifiable way.

I loved in the episode "37's" how he totally knew all about the 1930's truck and he was completely fascinated with it. And then he started the truck and it backfired and Janeway and B'Elanna quickly ducked behind the console and Harry jumped back like 20 feet. Then Tuvok suggested the air in the cargo bay be better ventilated before they all died from exhaust poisoning

On a side note, I've never liked Kes but I do agree that she did a lot for the Doctor and his humanizing among the crew. I'll give her that much, she seemed like a very loving character.

 

[Lynx]

I like Paris and most of all his funny comments from time to time, like that comment to the kid in "Time And Again": "We ate him".

Or that one about Culluh: "Friendly sort!"

Funny remarks in the excatly right moment.

He seems like a nice buddy too, that kind of person which could be fun to hang out with, go and have a beer or so.

 

[MiralParis]

I like Paris and most of all his funny comments from time to time, like that comment to the kid in "Time And Again": "We ate him".

Or that one about Culluh: "Friendly sort!"

Funny remarks in the excatly right moment.

He seems like a nice buddy too, that kind of person which could be fun to hang out with, go and have a beer or so.

Yeah, Tom would be a great buddy, always having fun no matter what he's doing! His character cracks me up and I find him endlessly fascinating! He strikes me as a man's man. You know the type, very manly and in to all things guys like. I was ever so happy that he could also be the husband type and the father type

 

[The Dark Mage]

I would have to say that I am tied against Janeway, Neelix, The Doctor, and Kes.

 

[The Dark Mage]

Despite Neelix's strong jealousy tendacies, he is probably my most favoured out of the male characters. I like his sense of humour and kindness. However, I must say, he is one of the most jealous crew members. In Parturition, when he got extremely jealous over Tom Paris, it made me realize that despite Neelix being one of the most cheerful crew members, he has a darker, more jealous side to him. I suppose Talaxians can be territorial. I did not think that what Tom was doing that Neelix saw, was enough to get enraged over. But I suppose he thinks that Kes would find Tom Paris much more charming and that perhaps Paris was trying to get in Neelix's way and try to take Kes from him.
However, I did think that it was lovely when they became friends afterward and that Neelix and Kes made up.

 

[kimc]

Despite Neelix's strong jealousy tendacies, he is probably my most favoured out of the male characters. I like his sense of humour and kindness. However, I must say, he is one of the most jealous crew members. In Parturition, when he got extremely jealous over Tom Paris, it made me realize that despite Neelix being one of the most cheerful crew members, he has a darker, more jealous side to him. I suppose Talaxians can be territorial. I did not think that what Tom was doing that Neelix saw, was enough to get enraged over. But I suppose he thinks that Kes would find Tom Paris much more charming and that perhaps Paris was trying to get in Neelix's way and try to take Kes from him.
However, I did think that it was lovely when they became friends afterward and that Neelix and Kes made up.

A great episode to explore his "darker side" is "Jetrel" which reveals his war experiences. It's a great character episode for Neelix.

 

[Lynx]

I find "Jetrel" a great episode.

It showed that Neelix wasn't just some clown character and wasn't only some nice, cheerful person either. It showed that he had a real tragic background, one of the most tragic backgrounds in all of Star Trek. His whole family was annihilated by the Hakoonians while he was hiding on Talax, not wanting to be a part of a war he didn't believe in. After the war, he became a traveler, dealing with this and that together with his friend Wixiban and he did also become a drug addict for some time (according to the book "Pathways" written by Jeri Taylor), however Wixiban did help him out of that habit.

later on he had to abandon Wixiban who was caught and jailed by the Ubeans which must also have been a terrible blow because Wixiban was the only friend he had at that time. So he continued with wheeling and dealing for some years before ending up in Kazon territory and finally reaching the Ocampa system where he met kes and later on the Voyager crew.

After such a life of tragic events, neelix could have become a bitter and dissapointed person. Instead he kept his spirit up and tried to be as friendly, cheerful and helpful as he could be to the people he encountered, always ready to give a helping hand to those who needed it.

That he still had some not so nice sides to his personality, such as his jealousy makes him even more interesting, realistic and fascinating as a character.

As for the episode "Jetrel", it's a great scenario we see. Neelix meets the one who constructed the weapon who was used to annihilate his famnily and the other inhabitants on Rinax, a person he has hated ever since that day and discovers that Dr.Jetrel deep inside regrets his invention and actually comes up with a futile attempt to correct the damage he had participated in.

I'm not sure if Neelix really was serious when he said that he did forgive Jetrel but he did have the decency to let Jetrel die in peace by at least telling him that he did forgive him.

 

[kimc]

That he still had some not so nice sides to his personality, such as his jealousy makes him even more interesting, realistic and fascinating as a character.

It's interesting you should bring up the jealousy since jealousy is simply the fear of losing a loved one. As we saw in "Jetrel" Neelix had already lost quite a bit by the time he met Kes which puts an explanation on it.

Mind you the jealousy was still annoying at times but at least in the context of "Jetrel" it's somewhat understandable.

 

[MiralParis]

I find "Jetrel" a great episode.

It showed that Neelix wasn't just some clown character and wasn't only some nice, cheerful person either. It showed that he had a real tragic background, one of the most tragic backgrounds in all of Star Trek. His whole family was annihilated by the Hakoonians while he was hiding on Talax, not wanting to be a part of a war he didn't believe in. After the war, he became a traveler, dealing with this and that together with his friend Wixiban and he did also become a drug addict for some time (according to the book "Pathways" written by Jeri Taylor), however Wixiban did help him out of that habit.

later on he had to abandon Wixiban who was caught and jailed by the Ubeans which must also have been a terrible blow because Wixiban was the only friend he had at that time. So he continued with wheeling and dealing for some years before ending up in Kazon territory and finally reaching the Ocampa system where he met kes and later on the Voyager crew.

After such a life of tragic events, neelix could have become a bitter and dissapointed person. Instead he kept his spirit up and tried to be as friendly, cheerful and helpful as he could be to the people he encountered, always ready to give a helping hand to those who needed it.

That he still had some not so nice sides to his personality, such as his jealousy makes him even more interesting, realistic and fascinating as a character.

As for the episode "Jetrel", it's a great scenario we see. Neelix meets the one who constructed the weapon who was used to annihilate his famnily and the other inhabitants on Rinax, a person he has hated ever since that day and discovers that Dr.Jetrel deep inside regrets his invention and actually comes up with a futile attempt to correct the damage he had participated in.

I'm not sure if Neelix really was serious when he said that he did forgive Jetrel but he did have the decency to let Jetrel die in peace by at least telling him that he did forgive him.

What a wonderful insightful post, I really enjoyed reading it! I've been fond of Neelix for some time and I can totally understand his jealously, fueled by fear of losing Kes. His fears were warranted in a sense because Tom did, for a time, have feelings for Kes and Neelix rightfully feared she may share those same feelings.

After losing so many important people to him I think the world of Neelix for being strong enough to always look beyond his pain and continue living, and being happy. Neelix is fierecely loyal which is also a very comendable trait to posess!

Much love for Mr. Neelix!

 

[Lynx]

That he still had some not so nice sides to his personality, such as his jealousy makes him even more interesting, realistic and fascinating as a character.

It's interesting you should bring up the jealousy since jealousy is simply the fear of losing a loved one. As we saw in "Jetrel" Neelix had already lost quite a bit by the time he met Kes which puts an explanation on it.

Mind you the jealousy was still annoying at times but at least in the context of "Jetrel" it's somewhat understandable.

I agree with your statements about jealousy in general and also when it comes to Neelix, due to his experiences in life.

The reason for me to point it out as "a not so nice side" is because his jealousy made him over-react and made him draw the wrong conclusions on some occasions.

Which is understandable but might be annoying for the people close to him.

Jealousy or not, I like Neelix! A wonderful character.

 

[The Dark Mage]

Despite Neelix's strong jealousy tendacies, he is probably my most favoured out of the male characters. I like his sense of humour and kindness. However, I must say, he is one of the most jealous crew members. In Parturition, when he got extremely jealous over Tom Paris, it made me realize that despite Neelix being one of the most cheerful crew members, he has a darker, more jealous side to him. I suppose Talaxians can be territorial. I did not think that what Tom was doing that Neelix saw, was enough to get enraged over. But I suppose he thinks that Kes would find Tom Paris much more charming and that perhaps Paris was trying to get in Neelix's way and try to take Kes from him.
However, I did think that it was lovely when they became friends afterward and that Neelix and Kes made up.

A great episode to explore his "darker side" is "Jetrel" which reveals his war experiences. It's a great character episode for Neelix.

I thank you for the information, I have not seen 'Jetrel' yet, but will have to.

 

[Captain Proton]

I used to despise Neelix, now I just don't like him...Lately I've been hating Chakotay...I think Voyager could do without Chakotay and Naomi Wildman...I cringe everytime I hear Seven say, "Naomi Wildman"...It reminds me of Seinfeld greeting Newman LOL

 

[rocketscientist]

WRT Neelix, I can't say I've ever liked him. I actually think he's the stupidest alien character ever conceived for the ST franchise. I think they wanted a funny alien character like Quark but they really blew it. Neelix has rarely been funny. On the contrary, he's irritating. He's ST's Jar-Jar Binks imo. Worse, that whole relationship with Kes, who was less than two years old at the time, is beyond creepy. It's a wonder that Berman, Pillar, and Taylor didn't take a step back and say, "Hey, we have a hairy middle-aged truck-driving man hooking up with a minor (at the very least)."

Yeah, I know, Kes is supposed to be very mature for her age, but the whole concept of the Ocampans never ever worked for me. She had less than two years of life experience, how could she possibly be mature?

WRT Tom Paris, I thought he was a really good character. At first, I didn't care for him too much, since he was supposedly supposed to be a Han Solo type character (as described in TV Guide I believe) and, imo, he obviously wasn't (though he shared some characteristics). In the end, I liked Tom for a few reasons. First, he was fallible. He would disobey orders, he would screw up. That was a great departure from TNG's GR perfect-people. Second, I liked his interest in the 20th century. A lot of TNG's characters came across as kind of smug when referring to us primitive 20th century people. Tom admired our culture (at least parts of it). Finally, his relationship with B'lanna, imo, was really well done. For all those reasons, Tom came across as more relatable than the other characters, more human if you will. In that way, I think he was kind of like Dr. McCoy in the original series, the most human of all the characters.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

WRT Neelix, I can't say I've ever liked him. I actually think he's the stupidest alien character ever conceived for the ST franchise. I think they wanted a funny alien character like Quark but they really blew it. Neelix has rarely been funny. On the contrary, he's irritating. He's ST's Jar-Jar Binks imo. Worse, that whole relationship with Kes, who was less than two years old at the time, is beyond creepy. It's a wonder that Berman, Pillar, and Taylor didn't take a step back and say, "Hey, we have a hairy middle-aged truck-driving man hooking up with a minor (at the very least)."

You know, I've never heard Neelix described this way (the Jar-Jar Binks of Trek), but actually, you come quite close to putting your finger on the trouble, IMO. I didn't care for Neelix very much either because you are right - he wasn't funny. He was annoying. And worse, kind of a weenie as well. He was not like Quark in the slightest - he was more like Rom, who worked better, but only because, as a recurring character, we got him in much smaller doses. If Rom had been a regular character, I'd have disliked him just as much Neelix - that whole warm, cuddly, addled and confused, somewhat shy and wussified character just doesn't do that much for me. And making him into Naomi Wildman's babysitter when they ran out of other ideas for him didn't help.

I did like the chef bit though. That part of the character was fun. Maybe they could have used that to make the character tougher - a la Klingon Chef or something. I don't know. But as it was, Neelix was just too much of a weenie to live.

WRT Tom Paris, I thought he was a really good character. At first, I didn't care for him too much, since he was supposedly supposed to be a Han Solo type character (as described in TV Guide I believe) and, imo, he obviously wasn't (though he shared some characteristics). In the end, I liked Tom for a few reasons. First, he was fallible. He would disobey orders, he would screw up. That was a great departure from TNG's GR perfect-people. Second, I liked his interest in the 20th century. A lot of TNG's characters came across as kind of smug when referring to us primitive 20th century people. Tom admired our culture (at least parts of it). Finally, his relationship with B'lanna, imo, was really well done. For all those reasons, Tom came across as more relatable than the other characters, more human if you will. In that way, I think he was kind of like Dr. McCoy in the original series, the most human of all the characters.

I liked Tom Paris from the start. I didn't know he was supposed to be like Hans Solo, and agree with you that this wasn't what he was, even at first. But I did like the rebellious 'edge' they gave him, as I indicated in much detail in my earlier posts in this thread. And I really liked his attachment to the 20th century as well. A character with an attachment to our own time works quite often in scifi shows, I believe - these characters bring the audience in and make them feel at home and in fact part of the context! Paris served this function in VOY, just like Garibaldi served it in Babylon 5 and John Crichton served it in Farscape.

I mean, who doesn't like a character who is reflective of himself? Right?

I also agree with you about the relationship with B'Elanna...but I discussed that earlier as well so won't repeat myself here.

Good post!