The Inevitability of the Borg?

[Mrs Paris]

What's the point of being Borg(near perfect) if you can't?

I guess I don't view Seven as near perfect and quite frankly she was at her most interesting when she was struggling or learning. Perfection may look great on paper but it's boring in real life.

Speak for yourself, honey.

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.

oh my jew sense is tingling

 

[exodus]

I guess I don't view Seven as near perfect and quite frankly she was at her most interesting when she was struggling or learning. Perfection may look great on paper but it's boring in real life.

Speak for yourself, honey.

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.

oh my jew sense is tingling

Know anybody with a good deal on diamonds?

 

[SonicRanger]

Jeri Taylor said early on that the Voyager was so far from the Borg that they'd never reach their space within the 7-year span of the show.

It was only the success of First Contact that brought the Borg to Voyager. Even then, Unity was intended largely as a one-off, with Year of Hell intended as the season finale and opener. I think it was the studio, after First Contact made money and lots of costumes, props, and settings now in storage, that demanded Scorpion. Even Scorpion could've ended the Borg arc on VOY. But, by then, they were addicted...

 

[exodus]

Jeri Taylor said early on that the Voyager was so far from the Borg that they'd never reach their space within the 7-year span of the show.

It was only the success of First Contact that brought the Borg to Voyager. Even then, Unity was intended largely as a one-off, with Year of Hell intended as the season finale and opener. I think it was the studio, after First Contact made money and lots of costumes, props, and settings now in storage, that demanded Scorpion. Even Scorpion could've ended the Borg arc on VOY. But, by then, they were addicted...

Right.

Plus, with the fans popularity of the Borg, the success of "FC" & "Scorpion" the writers/producers found a sure fire way to boost the lagging ratings Voyager had.

The Borg are what kept Voyager on the air for the last few seasons.
Voyager fans should be greatful for that and not complain so much about it.

 

[Mrs Paris]

so am I the only one who liked the few Borg episodes?

 

[exodus]

so am I the only one who liked the few Borg episodes?

Nope, I liked them all except for Unimatrix Zero.

Seven & the Borg allowed a show I liked to stay on the air 5 more years as well as allowed all of us the pleasure of seeing the other characters we loved for that long as well. If that was the outcome, I don't see using the Borg as a bad thing.

 

[kimc]

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.of

Those are all nice things but they wouldn't make you perfect.

 

[Mrs Paris]

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.of

Those are all nice things but they wouldn't make you perfect.

well if you also factor in that he likes Star Trek, then yeah, that's pretty damn perfect

 

[exodus]

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.of

Those are all nice things but they wouldn't make you perfect.

Then I guess you'd be the only one here I wouldn't take with me.

 

[kimc]

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.of

Those are all nice things but they wouldn't make you perfect.

Then I guess you'd be the only one here I wouldn't take with me.

Oh don't even TRY to pretend you wouldn't miss me!

Back to topic, while I thought the borg were fine in "Scorpion" after Kes pushed them out of borg space in "The Gift" the idea that they could keep popping up over and over again was absurd. After all, they were supposedly decimated in the war which would imply they may have been able to maintain their borders - if lucky.

Instead, it was expansion/assimilation as usual once the writers ran out of ideas.

 

[exodus]

Those are all nice things but they wouldn't make you perfect.

Then I guess you'd be the only one here I wouldn't take with me.

Oh don't even TRY to pretend you wouldn't miss me!

Back to topic, while I thought the borg were fine in "Scorpion" after Kes pushed them out of borg space in "The Gift" the idea that they could keep popping up over and over again was absurd. After all, they were supposedly decimated in the war which would imply they may have been able to maintain their borders - if lucky.

Instead, it was expansion/assimilation as usual once the writers ran out of ideas.

How is that absurd?

The Borg like the Federation travel space looking for other species to "join" them. It would stand to reason that they'd travel space more after the war to assimilate more species to make up for the numbers they lost. Just like I'm sure after the Dominion war, Starfleet is looking for new recuits to make up their lost numbers. Why build space fairing ships if you aren't going to fly thru space in them?

People of all races on Earth don't stay within the countries of their origin. If so, places like America & New Zealand wouldn't be colonized.

Starfleet & the Borg are equally the same in their goals, to seek out new life and new civilizations. They are both the same, just opposite sides of the same coin.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Then I guess you'd be the only one here I wouldn't take with me.

Oh don't even TRY to pretend you wouldn't miss me!

Back to topic, while I thought the borg were fine in "Scorpion" after Kes pushed them out of borg space in "The Gift" the idea that they could keep popping up over and over again was absurd. After all, they were supposedly decimated in the war which would imply they may have been able to maintain their borders - if lucky.

Instead, it was expansion/assimilation as usual once the writers ran out of ideas.

How is that absurd?


The Borg like the Federation travel space looking for other species to "join" them. It would stand to reason that they'd travel space more after the war to assimilate more species to make up for the numbers they lost. Just like I'm sure after the Dominion war, Starfleet is looking for new recuits to make up their lost numbers. Why build space fairing ships if you aren't going to fly thru space in them?

People of all races on Earth don't stay within the countries of their origin. If so, places like America & New Zealand wouldn't be colonized.

Starfleet & the Borg are equally the same in their goals, to seek out new life and new civilizations. They are both the same, just opposite sides of the same coin.

well said

 

[Unicron]

Scorpion was very good. I think Unimatrix Zero was a very interesting concept, albeit not executed as well as it could have been.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Borg have standards.

There are races that they simply won't assimilate, or tentatively won't assimilate yet. Or in the case of the Federation, they attack them a couple times, lose on purpose and wait to see what cunning invention they humans will conjure up worth assimilating?

So really, the Borg do not expand in all directions and I don't think near total annihilation would force the borg to drop there desire to only enlist the elite.

The Federation won't still let everyone join, but their 5 year admission time table during DS9 was reduced to a single year in Insurrection, at least since they're now admitting member worlds who have only had warp technology for a year.

Considering they did have to recoup their numbers, they would have had to have traveled out much further than one would think necessary at transwarp speeds.

 

[Mrs Paris]

The Borg have standards.

There are races that they simply won't assimilate, or tentatively won't assimilate yet. Or in the case of the Federation, they attack them a couple times, lose on purpose and wait to see what cunning invention they humans will conjure up worth assimilating?

So really, the Borg do not expand in all directions and I don't think near total annihilation would force the borg to drop there desire to only enlist the elite.

The Federation won't still let everyone join, but their 5 year admission time table during DS9 was reduced to a single year in Insurrection, at least since they're now admitting member worlds who have only had warp technology for a year.

Considering they did have to recoup their numbers, they would have had to have traveled out much further than one would think necessary at transwarp speeds.

exactly, they refused to assimilate the Kazon

 

[kimc]

The Borg like the Federation travel space looking for other species to "join" them. It would stand to reason that they'd travel space more after the war to assimilate more species to make up for the numbers they lost. Just like I'm sure after the Dominion war, Starfleet is looking for new recuits to make up their lost numbers. Why build space fairing ships if you aren't going to fly thru space in them?

People of all races on Earth don't stay within the countries of their origin. If so, places like America & New Zealand wouldn't be colonized.

Starfleet & the Borg are equally the same in their goals, to seek out new life and new civilizations. They are both the same, just opposite sides of the same coin.

Oh, I've not questionning their INTENT to do what you're saying. What I'm questionning is their AVAILABLE RESOURCES after being in a devastating war. There would normally be some years of rebuilding to get back to where they were before they could start expanding past the point they were at before the war.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But how important are the drones and the ships and the worlds?

Surely, all that's just tools and toys.

The Borg is AI. The Borg exists independent of the flesh and steel. Their mind is contained within the Collective of everyone who is lost including Seven. So for all of Species 8472's impact on the Borg they didn't really "kill" anything that wasn't backed up nd redundant. I read a naticve american maxim some time back "You will not defeat us untill the last heart of our last woman is dead on the earth."

It's a question of whether the collective is continuous as first thought or contained in regional nodes, or operating at the limits of subspace/transwarp time lag similar to our our communication lag with radio technology.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Ok, lets look at it this way,

Season One
no Borg episodes

Season Two
no Borg episodes

Season Three
Blood Fever - A corpse of a drone
Unity - no actual Borg interaction, only freed drones
Scorpion part I - The first full out Borg episode

Season Four
Scorpion part II - Borg episode
The Raven - Some discussion of Borg
The Omega Directive - Some mention of Borg
Hope and Fear - Some mention of Borg

Season Five
Drone - Borg episode
Infinite Regress - some mention of Borg
Dark Frontier - Borg episode

Season Six
Survival Instinct - Some discussion of Borg
Collective - Borg episode
Child's Play - can be considered a Borg episode
Unimatrix Zero part I - Borg episode

Season Seven
Unimatrix Zero part II - Borg episode
Imperfection - can be considered a Borg episode
Endgame - Borg episode


ok so Voyager had about 170 episodes. And out of all of those there are 15 episodes with the word Borg in them (I've always counted two parters as one episode). Out of those 15 episodes there are only 8 episodes that have Borg interaction in them.

8 out of 170!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8 out of 170 is only 4.7% that's a TINY portion of the show

how is that overusing the Borg???????

It's only 'overusing' the Borg if you're a whiny-know-it-all current generation Trekker who thinks that they could write a better episode, but if you put a gun to their head, they couldn't do it, so you'd have to shoot. The constant whining by so-called fans about how there was too much Borg only shows the validity of my sig (see below for a reminder).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Monkeys with type writer could have... Do you know what diminishing utility is?

I used to fear the Borg. Don't any more.

Thank Janeway for that.

I rewound the tape 6 times in scorpion to see all those cubes totally ignore Janeway because she was irrelevant. Then a couple years later they're ripping off Lord of the flies badly?

 

[exodus]

Ok, lets look at it this way,

Season One
no Borg episodes

Season Two
no Borg episodes

Season Three
Blood Fever - A corpse of a drone
Unity - no actual Borg interaction, only freed drones
Scorpion part I - The first full out Borg episode

Season Four
Scorpion part II - Borg episode
The Raven - Some discussion of Borg
The Omega Directive - Some mention of Borg
Hope and Fear - Some mention of Borg

Season Five
Drone - Borg episode
Infinite Regress - some mention of Borg
Dark Frontier - Borg episode

Season Six
Survival Instinct - Some discussion of Borg
Collective - Borg episode
Child's Play - can be considered a Borg episode
Unimatrix Zero part I - Borg episode

Season Seven
Unimatrix Zero part II - Borg episode
Imperfection - can be considered a Borg episode
Endgame - Borg episode


ok so Voyager had about 170 episodes. And out of all of those there are 15 episodes with the word Borg in them (I've always counted two parters as one episode). Out of those 15 episodes there are only 8 episodes that have Borg interaction in them.

8 out of 170!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8 out of 170 is only 4.7% that's a TINY portion of the show

how is that overusing the Borg???????

It's only 'overusing' the Borg if you're a whiny-know-it-all current generation Trekker who thinks that they could write a better episode, but if you put a gun to their head, they couldn't do it, so you'd have to shoot. The constant whining by so-called fans about how there was too much Borg only shows the validity of my sig (see below for a reminder).

I admit, I do mostly agree.

Voyager fans are complaining about how the Borg are overused but never taking note that thanks to the Borg stories, the show they claim to love stayed on the air because of them.

They complain the Borg aren't scary anymore but ignore that neither were the Klingons by the time TNG aired nor were the Romulans or Cardassians by the end of DS9.

Not surprising really, considering many modern Trek fans don't even understand the concept their show was based on.