The Inevitability of the Borg?

[Garth Rockett]

I was watching Unity last night and thinking about the beginning of the phase of Voyager where the Borg took over as the show's primary villains. I am one of those who feel that the Borg were overused in later seasons of Voyager. But as I really considered it, I wondered if the show's premise of being stranded in the Delta Quadrant didn't demand the amount of Borg episodes we got.

Given that we knew the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, it was inevitable that Voyager would encounter them at some point. And given what we knew about the Borg, they likely would have controlled a vast area of space and had cubes pushing out even further in order to expand their holdings. Logically, Voyager would have spent quite a long time moving through the Borg's sphere of influence. So when I stop and think about it, they probably should have actually had more encounters with the Borg than we saw. Checking lists of appearances, it looks like there were fewer Borg encounters per episode in Borg space than there were Kazon encounters per episode in Kazon space.

Perhaps my impression of Borg overdose stems from Seven of Nine's presence, since she does inject some Borg content into pretty much every episode post-season three. Or it could simply be that for Voyager to continually be successful against the Borg, they had to be watered down to the point they lost their effectiveness as villains.

My questions for the forum are:

Given we knew the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, was a Borg-heavy show unavoidable in the later seasons?

If you dislike the Borg in Voyager, do you think they were overused or do you think they were poorly handled when they were used, or both?

If you think the Borg were overused, do you think Seven of Nine was the cause (in other words, if Seven had never joined the cast but the crew still encountered the Borg the same number of times, do you think you might feel differently)?

 

[Mrs Paris]

the Borg weren't actualy in that many episodes. If you count the episodes that are borg heavy, meaning that there was more than just the mention of the word borg, that there was some actualy heavy interaction then there are only 6 or 7 Borg episodes. Out of a show with over 170 episodes it's not that many

 

[Luckyflux]

Voyager fan here. I do think they used the Borg too much. The Borg used to be this unstoppable, irresistable force, but Voyager constantly beat them...like all the time. And it took away from the "lore" of the Borg.

I was never a big fan of Seven and I think she didn't portray the character very well. To me, she didn't become more human as her time on Voyager progressed. By the end of Voyager, she would have been on the ship for a few years, yet her acting was the same as it was when she was first liberated from the collective. She was pretty though...

It just seems that writers did too much with the borg and all of there episodes. They watered them down, in my opinion.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Voyager never actualy "beat" a borg ship. The only time they came close they were up against weakened ships or had assimilated crewmembers inside

 

[Rhodan]

Given that we knew the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, it was inevitable that Voyager would encounter them at some point.

Did we actually? I know some fans are actually complaining that establishing them in Delta quadrant IN VOYAGER was something unexpected.

 

[Mrs Paris]

it was established in TNG that they originated in the Delta Quadrant

 

[WalkinMan]

Given we knew the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, was a Borg-heavy show unavoidable in the later seasons?

I think it was more or less unavoidable that they would encounter the Borg. In "Scorpion" Janeway said something to the effect, "We knew this moment was inevitable..."

But once Kes threw Voyager clear of Borg space, several thousand lightyears, the show needed not be Borg heavy. I can see the allure of having another 2-parter or something, but instead we got much more.

One funny bit though, in "Scorpion" they said there was no option but to either go through Borg space or stop completely. I can understand that Borg space is vast, but they could've been a bit more 3d in their description. Perhaps going above or altering course could spare the brunt of the encounter. Anyhow...

If you dislike the Borg in Voyager, do you think they were overused or do you think they were poorly handled when they were used, or both?

After "Scorpion," I think they were overused and not used well. Still, I don't mind the Seven of Nine eps which have allusions to Borg tech, and I thought that "Drone," "Survival Instinct," etc. were fine.

However, "Collective" and "Child's Play" both made the Borg seem mundane IMO. And "Dark Frontier" and "Unimatrix Zero" were average but suffered from the idiocy of a feckless Borg Queen. Having Voyager encounter whiny Borg children, easily trick a sphere (beaming a torpedo inside its target), easily destroy a small Borg ship (by beaming a torpedo inside), not to mention easily defeat assimilation numerous times, seemed a ways off from the devastating collective showcased in the past.

Yes, the seeds of their demise had been sown before, but in past cases we either got the sense that it was an isolated incident (Descent) or truly desperate final blow (BoBW). The heroes won by ingenuity and bravery in the face of an implacable foe, not by a dumbed-down, weakness-easy-to-exploit enemy that was a shadow of its former self.

In the end I felt that the final episode "Endgame" relied too much on the Borg, an enemy which Voyager didn't even create. TNG's finale had Q, who was there from the premiere; DS9's finale focused on the Dominion, which was their main enemy throughout. Even TVH was ended based on the Klingons, the main TOS adversary.

But VOY's finale cribbed off a villain from TNG, it was less original. IMO they should've used a VOY creation such as Species 8472 (another hanging thread left open). I'm partial to Kate Mulgrew's favorite, the Hirogen, as an interesting adversary which, although not necessarily finale-worthy, was original and unique to the show. That said, the Kazon were an average creation and lasted too long on the show. I would've liked to see a 2-parter or something resolve the Vidiian plot.

 

[Garth Rockett]

it was established in TNG that they originated in the Delta Quadrant

When I was typing my original post I was trying to recall when the Borg were established as being from the Delta Quadrant, and offhand the only pre-Voyager reference I can think of is in First Contact. Someone notes that the Borg were sending a message to the 21st century Borg, who were still in the Delta Quadrant at that time. So that was established pre-Blood Fever for sure.

However, I don't remember another reference. I think Q Who? simply states the Enterprise has been transported 7000 light years from their previous position. Does anyone recall any specific references during the TNG series?

If not, it could be that Braga worked that Delta Quadrant reference into FC in order to set the table for their Voyager appearance.

 

[kimc]

I'm obviously a Voyager fan but believe the borg were way overused - especially in the finale. I would have much rather seen Voyager get home thru the crew's own efforts like new technology or negotiations with an alien race to use their wormhole, etc.

 

[Lynx]

I think that the Borg was over-used in Voyager.

To be honest, the Borg were finished in TNG with the introduction of characters like Hugh and the Borg Queen. After that, they weren't scary and mysterious anymore and the magic was gone. I did actually find the Cardassians and the Dominion more convincing villains than the Borg even if I did like the early Borg episodes "Q Who" and "The Best Of Both Worlds". OK, "Descent"was not that bad as a sequel to the Hugh story but it was actually Lore who saved that episode.

Voyager was supposed to be about a ship with a mixed Starfleet and Maquis crew stranded in he Delta Quadrant facing unknown species and unknown space. Therefore the Borg should have been left out, there should have been more encounters with unknown species. It did become more about Seven vs The Borg which would have fitted better in TNG.

I always got the impression that the constant Borg and holodeck episodes in the later seasons were signs of the writers losing inspiration and interest for their creation.

 

[exodus]

You can't fly anywhere in the Alpha Quaderant and not run into a Klingon, yet some fans find it odd to run into the Borg frequently in their native quaderant. That's what doesn't make sense.

It's like taking a trip to Africa and being surprised to all ways see Black people.

It's about as dumb as fans thinking there is no way around Borg space, as if the bounderies run in a straight line down the center of the quaderant.

Fans also forget The Borg=ratings, which at the time Voyager was in desperate need of. So if the Borg got people to tune in, of course the writers would use them often.

 

[STIntergalactic]

There should have been MORE Borg. The finale should have involved the Borg joining the Federation, and simply letting Voyager use the conduit home.

 

[Kio]

There should have been MORE Borg.

Here's more Borg for you:

The finale should have involved the Borg joining the Federation, and simply letting Voyager use the conduit home.

I can't see the Borg joining the Federation without a few changes. Maybe Unimatrix Zero could have scored a few large victories by modifying vinculums (sp?) or using something like Icheb's pathogen, then taken over the alpha/delta quadrant hub.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You're all forgetting the malleable timelines.

Captain Chakotay got through(Or circumnavigated or skipped) Borg space fine without taking on Seven for crew or Losing Kes to accidental ascension from telepathic Jumpstarting of her goddesshood by Species 8472 probing her, despite Captain Chakotay still making his Rendezvous with the Year of Hell at about the same time kathy did after Kes Kicked her Voyager ten thousand light years the heck over Borg Space.

Star trek VIII First Contact super charged the technical sophistication of the Borg that were and certainly the the size of their then empire if they had intelligence and technology from the 24th century to help direct their domination of the 21st century Delta Quadrant... Which is exactly what happened since otherwise how would Seven have know about the Borg involvement during the first flight of the Phoenix unless that time line spiraled off the events of ENT regeneration during that game of "Pyramid of Power" which Harry and B'Elanna were playing during the Year of hell.

So it was less inevitable, once they could figure out where Borg Space was that Kathy could have charted a course around a drastically smaller Borg Space before the time meddling, than it was after "all that" when we discovered that it would take 10 years to fly through the shortest chord of their territory. Also without the tech legup from the 24th century Borg Queen, the earlier incarnation of the Borg might not have had the omph or savvy to punch a whole through into Fluidic space therefore completely averting that war and it's impact on Kes and her "Gift" to whoever Voyagers Captain was.

But Janeway didn't even know well enough to expect Ferengi out there. Not too hot on the research... But then it's not like Kes bothered to mention the Borg when she went back in Fury to meet Janeway 58 days into their homeward Journey? So as you can see, even from a Voyager perspective that the first and the last episodes are severely disconnected and utterly unrelated that Janeway's ability to predict and fight the Borg day to day was considerably different on many levels because she was constantly having just slightly different histories of the universe being responsible for her present... hells, after the events in Fury, because of Sam's invention, the Vidiians could never have taken Voyager or "Voyagers" in Deadlock and so there would have been two of them for a while until the Janeways tried to kill each other or there was a fork in the road with even chances on getting back to earth that the parted ways amicably(Woo be tide if the two crews mixed and partnered up with not the identical pairs.). Do you really think the Borg would have stood a chance against two Voyager if they had barely enough trouble standing up to a single short range tactical vessel?

Besides, if they were really afraid of the Borg, they would have used and reused that spacial scission until there were 2000 or more Janeways and ship and crew prepared to convoy through Borg Space to out gun even the most effective deterrent that Borg space had in wait for idiots crazy enough to invade.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There should have been MORE Borg.

Here's more Borg for you:

The finale should have involved the Borg joining the Federation, and simply letting Voyager use the conduit home.

I can't see the Borg joining the Federation without a few changes. Maybe Unimatrix Zero could have scored a few large victories by modifying vinculums (sp?) or using something like Icheb's pathogen, then taken over the alpha/delta quadrant hub.

The Bynars are basically benign Borg. Perfect Ambassadors.

 

[RoJoHen]

The only reason I think there were too many Borg was because in "The Gift," Kes flings Voyager PAST BORG SPACE!

I'm not saying they never should have run into them again, but for not being in their territory anymore (and constantly traveling farther away from it), they sure ran into them quite a bit.

They should have run into them with less frequency as the show progressed.

 

[Timo]

If we ignore malleable timelines for now, and stick with the one that could be argued to be the "real" one, we have no proof that Starfleet knew the Borg were in Delta before Voyager sailed out.

In "Q Who?", the Borg were encountered well within Alpha or Beta borders - the distances quoted dictate this, even if no quadrant names were given. In "Descent", an Okudagram suggests the renegade Borg had their hideout in Delta (or at least this is what the sensors and computers of the E-D guesstimated, after the transwarp conduit ride), but it would make sense for the renegades to have their hideout outside Borg territory.

ST:FC is the first time people (specifically, Beverly Crusher) think that the Borg would have originated from Delta. If they have a solid basis for thinking so, it comes from outside the aired episodes. Perhaps Locutus learned this in "BoBW", but the audience was not told? Or perhaps Crusher is making a baseless assumption, on basis of the "Descent" adventure from which she has vivid memories?

Then again, ST:FC also establishes that there have been several other Borg contacts besides the ones we saw: Picard tells us that the Borg have advanced and the Federation has fallen back, something that never happened in the TNG episodes. VOY continues on this vein, establishing assimilation events that are not part of the TNG episodes.

So perhaps our heroes indeed knew for a fact that running into the Borg in Delta was inevitable. The audience of course knew this, too, but for reasons that do not apply to the Trek universe: the Borg were inevitable because they were cool villains, and this overrides any facts established within the Trek universe.

Summing all the Borg experiences and mentions from the various shows and movies, I'd argue running into the Borg anywhere in the Milky Way is inevitable. And the frequency of encounters would not depend on whether the hero ship is in Borg territory or not. It would depend only on whether the omnipresent and nearly omniscient Borg are interested in the hero ship or not. And obviously Borg interest towards the Voyager would increase, not decrease, after the ship had passed Borg heartland and taken aboard 7 of 9.

But Janeway didn't even know well enough to expect Ferengi out there. Not too hot on the research...

"Fury" and timeline fun aside, this is another case where the inevitability is a bit in doubt. After all, TNG "The Price" seems to solidly establish that the Ferengi are nowhere near the Voyager's route. Data's measurements show that they got stuck just 200 lightyears from the point where the original Barzan probe emerged, and that point was in the Gamma Quadrant. The Voyager should never have ventured to within 200 ly of the Gamma/Delta border!

Then again, Data's 200 ly might be correct, while the original Barzan data may have been faulty. Or then Data is somehow saying that there is a 200 ly error in addition to the fact that they are now in Delta. Or then the Ferengi were further displaced within Delta, perhaps by attempting to re-enter the wormhole, perhaps by other means.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[exodus]

The only reason I think there were too many Borg was because in "The Gift," Kes flings Voyager PAST BORG SPACE!

I'm not saying they never should have run into them again, but for not being in their territory anymore (and constantly traveling farther away from it), they sure ran into them quite a bit.

They should have run into them with less frequency as the show progressed.

You can travel to Japan and meet people from America.

You can travel to NYC and meet people from Japan.

Why should Borg only be found in their space?

How could they find new species and technology to assimilate if they aren't exporing the galaxy looking for it?

 

[Mrs Paris]

Ok, lets look at it this way,

Season One
no Borg episodes

Season Two
no Borg episodes

Season Three
Blood Fever - A corpse of a drone
Unity - no actual Borg interaction, only freed drones
Scorpion part I - The first full out Borg episode

Season Four
Scorpion part II - Borg episode
The Raven - Some discussion of Borg
The Omega Directive - Some mention of Borg
Hope and Fear - Some mention of Borg

Season Five
Drone - Borg episode
Infinite Regress - some mention of Borg
Dark Frontier - Borg episode

Season Six
Survival Instinct - Some discussion of Borg
Collective - Borg episode
Child's Play - can be considered a Borg episode
Unimatrix Zero part I - Borg episode

Season Seven
Unimatrix Zero part II - Borg episode
Imperfection - can be considered a Borg episode
Endgame - Borg episode


ok so Voyager had about 170 episodes. And out of all of those there are 15 episodes with the word Borg in them (I've always counted two parters as one episode). Out of those 15 episodes there are only 8 episodes that have Borg interaction in them.

8 out of 170!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8 out of 170 is only 4.7% that's a TINY portion of the show

how is that overusing the Borg???????

 

[Garth Rockett]

Well, if you're counting two parters as one episode, it's really 8 out of 160. Even that is disinegenous, however, since it's unfair to count the episodes that preceded Voyager entering Borg space. You'll note in my original post I said they were overused in later seasons, not the entire run of the show. That puts it to 8 out of 105 from Unity, and since I think you have to consider Unity a Borg episode (they boarded a Cube and had a drone on Voyager, for pity's sake; you might as well claim TNG's I, Borg wasn't a Borg episode) that 9 out of 105, or 8.57%. That's not an insignificant amount.

Further, I'd argue that there were more than 9 Borg episodes; most of those you list I think are Borg episodes (The Raven, for example, is another Borg episode). Most importantly, once Seven joined the cast, the Borg are actually referenced in almost every episode through the rest of the series, which certainly adds to the perception of the Borg's frequent use.

Obviously, whether the Borg were overused or not is a matter of subjective opinion. To some, two appearances by the Borg might constitute overuse based on a variety of factors, such as quality and relevance of the appearance. Certainly, I know people who felt the Borg were overused on TNG, and they only showed up in 6 out of 178 episodes over there.

You may not feel they were overused, and that's fine with me, but you're seriously underplaying the Borg's role in seasons 4 through 7.