Janeway Gender Study

[thelostdax]

Hello Voyager Fans!

I'm finishing up a paper for my Gender Communication Studies Graduate class and need some assistance. The paper is about if Janeway did break the mold of being a female captain and get found a balance between being too stereotypically a female or being too male in her actions. I don't need many responses this is only a pilot study I am doing. I would need to know the basics if you are male or female and your thoughts on three Voyager episodes I mention.

The episodes I have chosen are "Deathwish", "Macrocosm" and "The Gift". I want your thoughts on Janeway if she was able to keep a balance or not(give an example or two for either opinion for each episode) also it doesn't have to be limited to her actions or words it could be from others. Thank you so much.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well what did we know about female captains beforehand? A comment in Turnabout Intruder claiming that women were not allowed to be Captains? A female and black captain (Madge Sinclair) getting spiked by the probe in the fourth movie erecting a solar sail on the Saratoga (hey, Sisko’s ship destroyed by the Borg was also called the Saratoga! Black-Pride?) when everyone else thought their ships were fracked. Captain garret waging into Romulan crossfire to save a Klingon outpost. Necheyev after the fact presenting the hugest balls that one wonders what her years as a Captain might have been like? Geordi’s mum (Also Madge Sinclair.) crashing into the side of a gas giant. That is if you don’t retroactively count Hernandez in the 22nd century and wonder if it wasn’t something she did which made the Admiralty assume that females were unfit for command a century later?

Did Janeway break the mold created by these women before her? What did it even mean to be a female in a society of complete gender equality if we believe Roddenberry’s press, that she wasn’t just a Captain breaking the mold of Captains before her? Personally consider her role models, daVinchi who would often get tired of a project and move on with out completing his work which was the earmark of Janeway’s personal adventures as her writers were constantly clutching for the reset button in favour of playing out interesting consequences, Amelia Erheart, who not only got lost just like Janeway, but who got lost in the exact same place as Janeway, and Shannon O’Donnel who was a big fat liar, whose lies created a myth which launched Janeway into space from completely rotten foundations. Did any of this make her a good Captain or even a fair Captain?

Deathwish. They used her for a coin. Janeway was completely corralled by infinitely more intelligent beings with a carrot in one hand and a stick in the other. Sometimes the Prime Directive is applied to post warp cultures and the only way to win this argument is not to be involved in the first place, since it was after all a strictly internal matter and the direct result of it lead to the destruction of several dozen, or maybe hundreds of (every musket volley and cannon ball seen fired in the sequel.) star systems. Although the very nature of an Asylum hearing is to see if the Federation can justify becoming involved for their own sake as well as the petitioner. Janeway didn’t appear to be afraid of the stick… but considering she was indignant enough to head out on a suicide mission to destroy Omega then how could she think it less beneficial to the universe to allow a sad god to go on moping for another thousand millennia if it would result in her crew going home? She’s willing to die for her convictions but is she willing to live? You’ll also note that her smuggling of telepaths through the Devore Imperium was a temporary lean of asylum granted despite the threat of death or/and slavery to her entire crew some years later for doing so. Capricious like a cat doesn’t even begin to describe Janeway.

Macrocosm. I give Janeway the highest compliment possible for her resolution of the conundrum during this weeks adventure. “She’s Batman.” There were definite elements of Ripley from Aliens when she stripped down to her tank top and sweated for the audience, which from a male perspective was erotically charged to say the least. It wasn’t an especially cerebral episode, but neither gender can express a sole claim on being a savvy and competent soldier, even if there was just in a splash of McGyver in how she finalized some of her encounters herein.

The Gift. If Janeway can be seen as the mother of both Seven and Kes, then this is a very important episode as one is leaving the nest and Janeway has to let go, meanwhile the other is being stripped of her rights and infantalized into a completely submissive state(yeah sure.) because she don’t know no better. This was all about reestablishing the hierarchy of the matriarchy and since “Anika’ didn’t take a uniform or “provisional rank badge” it’s kind of obvious how resistant she was to her new world order which was just the beginning of Janeways problems as she used care and understanding to win over the Borgette when supposedly (Locutus, Geordie and Hugh in I Borg. Boys have compassion too. Also Hugh figured out his individuality and humanity in a couple hours. I think Seven might be retarded a little, or she did a stellar job of not letting anyone catch on that she still had the emotional and reasoning faculties of a 6 year old like from when she was first assimilated despite being a super genius.) a male might be a little more brutal?

O, I’m quite the piggish male.

 

[Mrs Paris]

well I don't know if in the time of voyager there are still the same gender equlity issues as we still face today (and yes we still face those issues today) so we can only compare using a filter of today's standards.

Janeway was clearly not the first female captain in starfleet, but she was the first female captain that we saw in-depth. I think that being a woman enabled Janeway to have a closer different relationship with her crew than lets say Picard did. While Picard was very close with his crew, with Janeway as a woman she probably had in addition to deep friendships, a maternal connection with many members of the crew specifcaly Harry, Seven and B'Elanna.

It was pretty clear that nobody on the ship, man or woman ever questioned her orders or decisions based only on the fact that she was a woman. They all had a deep respect for her and for her authority.

I do think that the viewing puble of the show has often unfairly cirticised her because she was a woman. Any moment of softness or weakness was looked upon by critics as a weakness because she's a woman where Picard would never have been questioned in a similar situation. Any moment of harshness from her and she's labeled a "bitch", something that Picard would never be labeled as for a similar situation.

I think the only issues with Janeway being a woman have been from the audience of the show and not from anyone within the show itself

 

[Guy Gardener]

What about Kullah? His species certainly had no interest in thinking women were anywhere as useful or neat as men. i recall him calling her "woman" contemptuously more than once and that scene in basics part one when he backhands her because she is a woman talking out of turn as he makes it clear that he only ever feared the ships fire power and never and mere woman in charge of it... Of course because he expects so little from women is probably why he got his ass kicked by Janeway every week, and why Seska usurped his empire without him even noticing because she was distracting his political castration with all that kissing.

 

[thelostdax]

I am taking it more from the fact that yes, Janeway was not the first female captain in Star Trek, but was the first female to helm a Star Trek series. My purpose is to see did they portray her in a way that would be considered middle ground or did she play on the roles typically seen by women in television (the office doorknob, the atypical housewife, mother figure or the eye candy).

 

[kimc]

I am taking it more from the fact that yes, Janeway was not the first female captain in Star Trek, but was the first female to helm a Star Trek series. My purpose is to see did they portray her in a way that would be considered middle ground or did she play on the roles typically seen by women in television (the office doorknob, the atypical housewife, mother figure or the eye candy).

I think Janeway did break new ground as far as the roles typically played by women. Female captains just weren't seen, ever.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Unless you have a magic TV that only shows you the 1970s... Kim was a little Bitch calling her ma'am in the pilot, but other gender issues were inconsequential from a human perspective... Consider her boyfriend, Mark taking on the part of Penelope from the Odyssey, waiting at home for the brave Captain to return home... Although Penelope was able to fend off suitors for 20 years (And Odysseus killed a dozen or few of them trying to get a leg over on his missus when he got home.) but Mark was married inside of Four years of Kathy's supposed death (Which had her breakdown a little.). Which makes us wonder if she was resistant to the idea of marriage? Although she did invite that bloke she shacked up with in workforce to be her cabin boy. It didn't seem like a relationship of equals. the Doctor made a similar claim that she has to rely on passing space bums or holograms for sex not that we saw how she turned the holo novel of Jane Eyre into a porno in season two.

Is Captain Cassidy Yates a comparable figure to Janeway despite only being a civilian captain and not a Starfleet Captain? but as mentioned penny Johnson didn't front the show and despite being powerful and independent was almost immediately victorianly coupled off with the alpha male of DS9, so who is she really but an extension of the Sisko personality?

Janeway pretended to be a whore to break into prison, and she pretended to be enamored with with that Space Nazi kashak from the Devore Imperium that it can be clearly seen that she saves her femininity as a weapon, and not something she wears on her sleeve. In a 20th century sense of the concept despite her biology, is she even female and not just a person?

 

[kimc]

Consider her boyfriend, Mark taking on the part of Penelope from the Odyssey, waiting at home for the brave Captain to return home... Although Penelope was able to fend off suitors for 20 years (And Odysseus killed a dozen or few of them trying to get a leg over on his missus when he got home.) but Mark was married inside of Four years of Kathy's supposed death (Which had her breakdown a little.).

It's interesting you should bring up Penelope since the role of waiting is traditionally taken on by the woman while it's the man that goes out and has the big adventures.

Do you guys think it's possible for a man to be a Penelope? How about a woman as a captain in real life?

 

[Guy Gardener]

What was that line from the Princess Bride? "Why didn't you wait for me?" -- "You were dead!" -- "Well, it just slowed me down a little."

The role of Penelope isn't really gender specific anymore since men can chose to be the home maker with out being a complete failure. I saw a movie a while back with a rather bleak view on sexual roles "The Ref" where Ryan O'Neil says "A woman can't be a failure. the worst she can be a is a housewife." In the case of military misadventure and plain dangerous occupations there are plenty of women out there proving [70s]They can do anything[/70s] which leaves someone at home biting their nails wondering if they're a widow or a widower?

Not that applies to Voyager but in gay relationships well the Mark and Kathy roles become complete irrelevant as a gender issue, since ipso facto the hopeful romantic in denial about the true fate of the hir lover and the bedraggled lover still lost at sea well after curfew trying to steam back to some loving special hugs are either both male or both female.

I'm getting bored waiting for complete equality between sexes which as I think about are becoming quite undifferentiable already since most of what's left on display is just smoke and mirrors to get their own way from both sexes.

 

[Kio]

Do you guys think it's possible for a man to be a Penelope? How about a woman as a captain in real life?

Sure, men can pine away. You know, there are women captains. My dad knew one who owned a fishing boat, but they were only at sea for a couple months or so at a stretch.

What about you? Let's say you were Kim's girlfriend or Tuvok's wife (or any S.O. of a crew member) and Voyager hadn't been declared officially lost. You knew Starfleet was trying to get them home and that Voyager kept running into chances to shorten their trip. Would you wait? I think I would have gone the route of Janeway's boyfriend.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The atrocious relaunch novels had Libby somewhat unavailable and uninterested in resuming her relationship, but Kim was dating DeLanney sisters in episode 2 at Tom's insistence... Janeway constructed a 'friendship" with mark's wife. It was just horrible.

Vulcan lifespans are long enough that T'Pel might not even have noticed her husband was missing if no one hadn't told her about Voyager dissapearing... What happens witht he pon far? Does she rebond or is she still stuck on Tuvok's cycle? If we even accept Enterprises supposition that both genders suffer through Pon far combined with Voyagers Bloodfever additions about the Telepathic imprinting. When is Vulcan menopause in their life lines?

Janeway was never treated badly because she was a woman, even though she was a monster.

 

[Kio]

The atrocious relaunch novels had Libby somewhat unavailable and uninterested in resuming her relationship, but Kim was dating DeLanney sisters in episode 2 at Tom's insistence... Janeway constructed a 'friendship" with mark's wife. It was just horrible.

That sounds pretty damn bad.

Vulcan lifespans are long enough that T'Pel might not even have noticed her husband was missing if no one hadn't told her about Voyager dissapearing...

I thought Voyager was on a "3 hour tour." I think T'Pel would have noticed, but yeah, who knows with Vulcans and their ill-defined mating practices.

Janeway was never treated badly because she was a woman, even though she was a monster.

Wow. So are you joking or do you just not like Voyager?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I like Voyager. I like many of the characters. I even like Janeway, but a lot of the time she was a super villain getting away with murder and hypocrisies. Although now and then a story about a villain being villainous can have immense entertainment value too. Take the Shield or the Soprano's for instance?

You know the laundry list.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Do you guys think it's possible for a man to be a Penelope? How about a woman as a captain in real life?

Sure, men can pine away. You know, there are women captains. My dad knew one who owned a fishing boat, but they were only at sea for a couple months or so at a stretch.

What about you? Let's say you were Kim's girlfriend or Tuvok's wife (or any S.O. of a crew member) and Voyager hadn't been declared officially lost. You knew Starfleet was trying to get them home and that Voyager kept running into chances to shorten their trip. Would you wait? I think I would have gone the route of Janeway's boyfriend.

I always hated what Marc did. Janeway found out in the 4th season that he had married someone. So are you telling me that in only 4 years he "held out hope longer than most" mourned for her, got over it, found someone new, dated her, got engaged and got married? That seems like a very short time to do all that

 

[Guy Gardener]

You're assuming that he was faithful while she was still in the AQ. And that's not a bad thing if they did have an open relationship. Which had to be a possibility if she could be away on mission for months or years at a time while following sane orders...

I wonder if polygamy is legal yet in the 24th century? Janeway certainly didn't think it was in the 19th when she murdered that hologram to get a shag.

 

[Deckerd]

I always hated what Marc did. Janeway found out in the 4th season that he had married someone. So are you telling me that in only 4 years he "held out hope longer than most" mourned for her, got over it, found someone new, dated her, got engaged and got married? That seems like a very short time to do all that

People do it in a lot less time. If they truly believe their partner is dead, they can recover remarkably quickly.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maybe it was the rebound wife? Or he vertigoed some lady forcing her to wear an iron bun and role play that she was in starfleet? it could have been a completely unhealthy relationship founded on Marc being fucked up from missing a Kathy-Cuddle between missions.

With the human life span increased to an excess of 150 years (McCoy in Encounter at farpoint.) it becomes more and more ridiculous to think that marriage should last a life time.

 

[Mrs Paris]

why shouldn't marriage last a lifetime? Why would you marry someone if you didn't want to spend the rest of your life with them?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well it's the definition of the word "life time" isn't it?

Simply I do believe you just have to bloody lucky to get it right on your first go. When the morality behind monogomy was set up a thousand years ago, it was a miracle if even the rich made it into their 50s or 60s. Go back a thousand years before that and sure Socrates lived to be 70, but honestly I think that's only because he didn't get married. Life expectancy was short enough and the world was dangerous that you would have barely enough time to raise your children before something terminal happened, but if they had known for a fact that they could spend the next 120 years listening to the same stories and watching someone grow bored with their stories... People would be a hell of a lot more selective in choosing their life mates.

And as long as someones potential life expectancy might be, there's always an oncoming bus to play silly buggers with those assumptions that a life time can be considerably shorter than forecasted that you can die before love spoils like any other fruit.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Well it's the definition of the word "life time" isn't it?

Simply I do believe you just have to bloody lucky to get it right on your first go. When the morality behind monogomy was set up a thousand years ago, it was a miracle if even the rich made it into their 50s or 60s. Go back a thousand years before that and sure Socrates lived to be 70, but honestly I think that's only because he didn't get married. Life expectancy was short enough and the world was dangerous that you would have barely enough time to raise your children before something terminal happened, but if they had known for a fact that they could spend the next 120 years listening to the same stories and watching someone grow bored with their stories... People would be a hell of a lot more selective in choosing their life mates.

And as long as someones potential life expectancy might be, there's always an oncoming bus to play silly buggers with those assumptions that a life time can be considerably shorter than forecasted that you can die before love spoils like any other fruit.

I'm realy very sorry that you've haven't found true love yet, and that you are so cynical about it.

I would love to spend the next 200 years with my husband. And I wouldn't have married him if I hadn't thought that I would be with him for the rest of my life whether the rest of my life is the next 5 years or the next 500 years.