Tuvix: Was it the right decision?

[Jon1701]

Frankly, they should have ended the episode with Tuvix going back to two people of his own volition. You could have still had a powerful ending, problem was they had already discussed the suicide question earlier in the season.

A good episode with, at best, a morally ambiguous ending. Janeway doesn't come off looking particulary good in this one.

It didn't and still doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Michael]

If Neelix & Tuvok could be seperated from Tuvix and become whole again, then neither was dead.

Well duh, Tuvix was dead, of course.

Besides, the original plan was to get Neelix & Tuvok back. Tuvix knew this, he knew he wasn't going to exist if a cure was found and he accepted it. He knew from the start he had no life to argue for. It wasn't until he got used to existing that he felt he had say.

Which doesn't make Janeways decision right. In the end he did NOT want to die. And yet she killed him. I think it's as easy as that. Of course they had a benefit from it (Tuvok and Neelix being alive again), but that only adds to the selfishness of Janeways decision.

 

[STIntergalactic]

Frankly, they should have ended the episode with Tuvix going back to two people of his own volition.

Kinda like similtude (sp?)

 

[exodus]

I think it's as easy as that.

Well, it's not.

The ep. would be considered so controversial if it was. I think the only thing the major majority do agree on, is that the end of this ep. makes everyone a little uneasy.

Frankly, I think that it's eps. like this(Deathwish, Latent Image, Real Life, etc.) that make Voyager good Trek and a worthy series. They make you question morally while also pulling on your heart strings.

 

[Mrs Paris]

what she should have did was use the transporter to clone tuvix, and then spilt one back into tuvok and neelix

transporter to clone someone? I don't think they know how to do that

Tell that to Tom Riker.

that was an accidet that if I remember correcly they couldn't repeat

 

[Mrs Paris]

Tuvix was an abomination and shouldn't exist.

Who's to say he was an abomination? He lived, he breathed and he certainly didn't want to die – so who's Janeway to decide that he has to?

She was the Captain and he was a member of the crew, who falls under her jurisdiction.

As I also said, Kes could be seen as "family" to represent Neelix. She begged to have Neelix back. Regradless of her own feelings, Janeway now had to consider those of Kes.

and Tuvok's wife and kids

 

[Jon1701]

Frankly, they should have ended the episode with Tuvix going back to two people of his own volition.

Kinda like similtude (sp?)

Yeah, something like that.

Could have ended the episode in any number of ways really. You could end up with Tuvix becoming ill (molecules unstable or any old technobollocks) and the only way to save his life is to split him in two again.

Could have still had all the hand wringing stuff, it would still have been a good scene at the end where Janeway has to explain to Tuvok and Neelix how she was prepared to let them die. I'm sure Tuvok would have seen the logic in it, but you could still have had some good stuff for the actors to play.

 

[Michael]

Well, it's not.

Well, I think it's that easy.

Frankly, I think that it's eps. like this(Deathwish, Latent Image, Real Life, etc.) that make Voyager good Trek and a worthy series. They make you question morally while also pulling on your heart strings.

I do feel the same about this episode. In case that was unclear – I like "Tuvix". And I think I like it because it doesn't play it safe. They actually took the risk to portray Janeway in a negative light.

and Tuvok's wife and kids

Again, what about Tuvix' feelings? Don't they count? And if not – why?

 

[Mrs Paris]

Well, it's not.

Well, I think it's that easy.

Frankly, I think that it's eps. like this(Deathwish, Latent Image, Real Life, etc.) that make Voyager good Trek and a worthy series. They make you question morally while also pulling on your heart strings.

I do feel the same about this episode. In case that was unclear – I like "Tuvix". And I think I like it because it doesn't play it safe. They actually took the risk to portray Janeway in a negative light.

and Tuvok's wife and kids

Again, what about Tuvix' feelings? Don't they count? And if not – why?

honestly, the bottom line is that in starfleet or any military structure, no feelings don't count. You have orders and you follow them even if you don't want to. And that's why only certain people become captains...to make the hard decisions

 

[Michael]

honestly, the bottom line is that in starfleet or any military structure, no feelings don't count. You have orders and you follow them even if you don't want to. And that's why only certain people become captains...to make the hard decisions

Well, you started the thread, so you should know: The question is whether Janeway's decision was right or not. Not if she had the authority to make that decision (which she undoubtfully had). I say it was a wrong decision, because she killed a man. In my opinion the fact that his death brought back Neelix and Tuvok doesn't change that a bit – she killed a man in cold blood.

 

[Mrs Paris]

honestly, the bottom line is that in starfleet or any military structure, no feelings don't count. You have orders and you follow them even if you don't want to. And that's why only certain people become captains...to make the hard decisions

Well, you started the thread, so you should know: The question is whether Janeway's decision was right or not. Not if she had the authority to make that decision (which she undoubtfully had). I say it was a wrong decision, because she killed a man. In my opinion the fact that his death brought back Neelix and Tuvok doesn't change that a bit – she killed a man in cold blood.

I started the thread to see if other people agreed with her decision, not to justify it

 

[Smiley]

I agree with Janeway's decision. Everything that was in Tuvix is in Neelix and Tuvok. Each ot them could choose to become more like Tuvix if they wished it. I don't equate the splitting of Tuvix with murder.

I wonder if people's opinions would be different if Tuvix existed for 30 seconds or 30 years.

 

[Mrs Paris]

I agree with Janeway's decision. Everything that was in Tuvix is in Neelix and Tuvok. Each ot them could choose to become more like Tuvix if they wished it. I don't equate the splitting of Tuvix with murder.

I wonder if people's opinions would be different if Tuvix existed for 30 seconds or 30 years.

no doubt the feelings would have been different after 30 years. People would have begun to forget or accept the loss of Tuvok and Neelix, and would become more atachedto Tuvix

 

[KayArr]

Wrong decision--Tuvok and Neelix died, Tuvix was born. What was the point of having Tuvix try to get away on the bridge, to beg people to side with him, and no one did. That was unnecessarily cruel. I can't believe that in real life, any moral person would have made the choice that Janeway did. How could no one oppose Janeway? I'd have been charge of the mutiny myself! And then Kes breaks up with Neelix practically the next day anyway.

 

[kimc]

Wrong decision--Tuvok and Neelix died, Tuvix was born.

What people tend to forget is that Tuvok and Neelix were still alive inside Tuvix. At least, that's how Tuvix put it when he said he had the will to live of two men. The wills of Tuvok and Neelix were being focused into this new personality.

Was it a tragic decision? Yes. Unfortunately it was also a necessary one, imo.

 

[KayArr]

Wrong decision--Tuvok and Neelix died, Tuvix was born.

What people tend to forget is that Tuvok and Neelix were still alive inside Tuvix. At least, that's how Tuvix put it when he said he had the will to live of two men. The wills of Tuvok and Neelix were being focused into this new personality.

Was it a tragic decision? Yes. Unfortunately it was also a necessary one, imo.

They were no more still alive inside Tuvix then your parents are alive inside you. I could almost half-way buy that Tuvix could be created, but for the transporter to be used at the end to recreate the 2 individuals again, perfect in every way, including the uniforms? That was ridiculous!

 

[kimc]

Wrong decision--Tuvok and Neelix died, Tuvix was born.

What people tend to forget is that Tuvok and Neelix were still alive inside Tuvix. At least, that's how Tuvix put it when he said he had the will to live of two men. The wills of Tuvok and Neelix were being focused into this new personality.

Was it a tragic decision? Yes. Unfortunately it was also a necessary one, imo.

They were no more still alive inside Tuvix then your parents are alive inside you. I could almost half-way buy that Tuvix could be created, but for the transporter to be used at the end to recreate the 2 individuals again, perfect in every way, including the uniforms? That was ridiculous!

I agree the entire concept is ridiculous but going by what Tuvix said they were both alive in him. He mentioned it several times during the episode. Yet another example is when he was told Kes that he was still Neelix - the man who loved her.

 

[Unicron]

^ That's kind of how I feel too. I think Tuvix's feelings counted, and the crew respected them, but only up to a point. Once it became clear that there was a way to undo the merging and restore both crewmembers, Janeway was left with the choice. I think Tuvix genuinely wanted to survive, but I also think he was partly motivated by his own selfishness when suddenly faced with the possibility that he might not survive. It's a perfectly understandable reaction on his part, but not necessarily a justified one.

 

[KayArr]

The will to live isn't selfish. Throwing yourself in front of bus to save someone is one thing, giving up your life for two people who are now dead...that's something else. I often disagree with MEG's reviews on Voyager--but she's right on here. No examination of how Vulcans and Talaxians view death? What if those cultures would have said after such an accident, the person was dead? Janeway never even asked.

 

[kimc]

The will to live isn't selfish. Throwing yourself in front of bus to save someone is one thing, giving up your life for two people who are now dead...that's something else.

They weren't dead. If they were dead there would have been no way they could have been brought back.