Tuvix: Was it the right decision?

[Mrs Paris]

This was brought up in another thread and I thought it might be interesting to discuss it. Forgive me if it's already been done

in my opinion. Janeway did what she had to do and I agreed with her decision. It kind of came down to a needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many thing. She sacrificed one person to save two. Tuvix never should have existed, Neelix and Tuvok did.

what does everyone elset think?

 

[Michael]

Yeah, I think it was morally wrong to technically kill Tuvix. At the time Neelix and Tuvok were already dead. Just try to hypothetically transfer this on a real life situation: If I said to you "If you kill this friend of yours, two other deceased friends will resurrect from the dead" – would you honestly do it? Well, I know I wouldn't.

 

[Lynx]

I think Janeway made the right decision in a very difficult situation.

Tuvix was the result of an accident and it was understood from the start that if and when The Doctor came up with a solution how to separate Tuvok and Neelix and actually "bring them back to life", they shoud do so.

And that is exactly what Janeway did.

OK, it was atough decision since Tuvix had started to adapt to a life of his own but bringing back Tuvok and Neelix was the prime goal.

And if we should nitpick, the events in the episode took place between stardates 49655.2 and 49678.4 which, according to my calculations are 27 August to 5 September so Tuvix's existance was very brief.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Yeah, I think it was morally wrong to technically kill Tuvix. At the time Neelix and Tuvok were already dead. Just try to hypothetically transfer this on a real life situation: If I said to you "If you kill this friend of yours, two other deceased friends will resurrect from the dead" – would you honestly do it? Well, I know I wouldn't.

I wuld't put it that way, he's not a friend of mine, he's just a guy I met yesterday that reminds me of my two friends. I don't realy know him

 

[Michael]

Yeah, I think it was morally wrong to technically kill Tuvix. At the time Neelix and Tuvok were already dead. Just try to hypothetically transfer this on a real life situation: If I said to you "If you kill this friend of yours, two other deceased friends will resurrect from the dead" – would you honestly do it? Well, I know I wouldn't.

I wuld't put it that way, he's not a friend of mine, he's just a guy I met yesterday that reminds me of my two friends. I don't realy know him

I think it was made pretty clear in the episode that they all became friends with him.

 

[Navaros]

I made a Tuvix thread too, several months ago. I was shocked by the episode.

I say no, Janeway didn't make the right decision, mainly because of the cold, barbaric way in which she executed Tuvix.

I can maybe understand Janeway having to make the decision she did. But, how about letting Mr. Tuvix go with a bit of dignity? She didn't even state to him what her decision was. Just killed him in cold-blood without even saying she is going to first. She could have at least verbalized her decision to him. Then said a prayer for him. Or at least offered some words of encouragement to him before she killed him. Or made any kind of show of compassion to him. Anything other than just outright killing him without talking to him first.

That was a really cold-blooded execution she gave him.

With how it went down, it makes me feel very disturbed watching that episode, knowing Janeway is supposed to be the hero of the show. She was more akin to an evil butcher in that episode IMO and as such that episode leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Yeah, I think it was morally wrong to technically kill Tuvix. At the time Neelix and Tuvok were already dead. Just try to hypothetically transfer this on a real life situation: If I said to you "If you kill this friend of yours, two other deceased friends will resurrect from the dead" – would you honestly do it? Well, I know I wouldn't.

I wuld't put it that way, he's not a friend of mine, he's just a guy I met yesterday that reminds me of my two friends. I don't realy know him

I think it was made pretty clear in the episode that they all became friends with him.

but not better friends than they were with either Tuvok or Neelix


an on another note, I like the name Neevok better

 

[Michael]

an on another note, I like the name Neevok better

Me too. But for different reasons: "Tuvix" sounds rather obscene in German.

but not better friends than they were with either Tuvok or Neelix

So that let's you determine wether you would kill a friend to get two others back – that you are more friends with them?

 

[Mrs Paris]

an on another note, I like the name Neevok better

Me too. But for different reasons: "Tuvix" sounds rather obscene in German.

but not better friends than they were with either Tuvok or Neelix

So that let's you determine wether you would kill a friend to get two others back – that you are more friends with them?

If I HAD to kill someone that I barely knew to save two good friends??? I would


and what does that word mean???

 

[Michael]

If I HAD to kill someone that I barely knew to save two good friends??? I would

Honestly? You would kill someone? Someone who's not even mean-spirited towards you?

and what does that word mean???

It doesn't mean anything. "Vix" just sounds like the vulgar word for the activity the kid in my avitar () is adumbrating.

 

[Mrs Paris]

If I HAD to kill someone that I barely knew to save two good friends??? I would

Honestly? You would kill someone? Someone who's not even mean-spirited towards you?

that's not the question. If I absolutely had to kill someone I barely know to save two good friends I probably would


but this topic isn't about what I would do, it's about what Janeway did

and what does that word mean???
It doesn't mean anything. "Vix" just sounds like the vulgar word for the activity the kid in my avitar () is adumbrating.

 

[STIntergalactic]

what she should have did was use the transporter to clone tuvix, and then spilt one back into tuvok and neelix

 

[Mrs Paris]

what she should have did was use the transporter to clone tuvix, and then spilt one back into tuvok and neelix

transporter to clone someone? I don't think they know how to do that

 

[Michael]

what she should have did was use the transporter to clone tuvix, and then spilt one back into tuvok and neelix

transporter to clone someone? I don't think they know how to do that

Braga knows.

 

[exodus]

I agree with Janeway too.

I would do whatever it takes to save a good friend. Janeway felt it was her duty to save her friend Tuvok. We also can't put full blame on Janeway, Kes begged herto bring Neelix back. Kes, being Neelix' "lover" was the closest thing to consent from family Janeway needed.

Tuvix was an abomination and shouldn't exist.

 

[STIntergalactic]

what she should have did was use the transporter to clone tuvix, and then spilt one back into tuvok and neelix

transporter to clone someone? I don't think they know how to do that

Tell that to Tom Riker.

 

[Michael]

Tuvix was an abomination and shouldn't exist.

Who's to say he was an abomination? He lived, he breathed and he certainly didn't want to die – so who's Janeway to decide that he has to?

 

[exodus]

Tuvix was an abomination and shouldn't exist.

Who's to say he was an abomination? He lived, he breathed and he certainly didn't want to die – so who's Janeway to decide that he has to?

She was the Captain and he was a member of the crew, who falls under her jurisdiction.

As I also said, Kes could be seen as "family" to represent Neelix. She begged to have Neelix back. Regradless of her own feelings, Janeway now had to consider those of Kes.

 

[Michael]

Tuvix was an abomination and shouldn't exist.

Who's to say he was an abomination? He lived, he breathed and he certainly didn't want to die – so who's Janeway to decide that he has to?

She was the Captain and he was a member of the crew, who falls under her jurisdiction.

Well, I didn't say she hasn't the right to make this decision. But that doesn't make her decision right.

As I also said, Kes could be seen as "family" to represent Neelix. She begged to have Neelix back. Regradless of her own feelings, Janeway now had to consider those of Kes.

And what about the feelings of Tuvix? Frankly, Neelix was dead in this situation. Of course Kes wanted him back. Who wouldn't understand that? But to kill another being to get Neelix back? No – that's a wrong decision in my eyes.

 

[exodus]

Who's to say he was an abomination? He lived, he breathed and he certainly didn't want to die – so who's Janeway to decide that he has to?

She was the Captain and he was a member of the crew, who falls under her jurisdiction.

Well, I didn't say she hasn't the right to make this decision. But that doesn't make her decision right.

As I also said, Kes could be seen as "family" to represent Neelix. She begged to have Neelix back. Regradless of her own feelings, Janeway now had to consider those of Kes.

And what about the feelings of Tuvix? Frankly, Neelix was dead in this situation. Of course Kes wanted him back. Who wouldn't understand that? But to kill another being to get Neelix back? No – that's a wrong decision in my eyes.

If Neelix & Tuvok could be seperated from Tuvix and become whole again, then neither was dead.

Besides, the original plan was to get Neelix & Tuvok back. Tuvix knew this, he knew he wasn't going to exist if a cure was found and he accepted it. He knew from the start he had no life to argue for. It wasn't until he got used to existing that he felt he had say.