• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Episodes that start well but.....

Spocks Brain starts out well. Its not until they go down the elevator that it becomes unintentional comedy. Although, I do like the surgery scene and the McCoy v. Spock banter.

Plato's Stepchildren has an OK beginning. But once we get Kirk slapping himself, it becomes rather creepy. I dont want to see Kirk and Spock humiliated and tortured for 12 minutes.
 
• Jefferies knew the television audience would never get a big long look like they do of the bridge.

• It never even occurred to him that nuts like me would have their mother's camera on a tripod to take photos of the TV picture tube. Who does that?

• He knew the audience does not work out the geometry of curves, and scale them to the exterior.
Oh, agreed on all that. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. But it wasn't curved for no reason. That takes extra effort in construction; I assume somebody wanted to imply something, and (as with other details) I'm sad it's no longer possible to ask anyone who was there at the time about these kinds of decisions.

Now maybe they just grabbed the Pike/Charlie/Karidian/Brig wall like @Maurice speculated, possibly because it was the best or only big wall handy and not already in use. But I doubt that setpiece was originally structured to be rotated 90°, and it would have taken some effort to adapt it for this use, cover the long shelf, insert the window, brace it against its own curvature for vertical use, etc. Either way, some effort and cost were required, so I generally assume it was for a purpose.

He just wanted to get the idea across that you're down there in the secondary hull where the walls would curve in that direction. That's all it is.
You may very well be right. For me it's not a great headcanon or screencanon fit, though.
  • The room is depicted as being outboard of a circular corridor, and I always have trouble with speculative plans that try to shoehorn c-corridors into the secondary hull (most of the ones I've seen have no space for actual rooms on the outboard side, which is part of the reason I find them hard to accept).
  • Kirk and Odona walk out of his quarters after, well let's call it Kirk's "medical infusion," and hear the banging sounds. Kirk gets a realization and specifically looks ahead down the Jefferies tube corridor, obviously with a destination in mind. They head that way, there's a camera cut, no turbolift ride is seen or implied, and they exit that corridor onto another one with all the typical trappings. As they enter a room with a yellow door across from the disposal chute, Kirk tells Odona this is a viewing port (certainly one of many scattered about the ship). Without a doubt he would have gone to the nearest one available, without wasting time changing decks, and surely there would be viewing ports on the same deck as the captain's quarters. So I find this on-screen evidence not very compatible with a lift ride or ladder climb down multiple decks.
  • I was finding the in-world feasibility of this whole duplicate-ship mockup a bit easier to swallow when I thought they really only needed to build the saucer, or a portion of it. If the Gideons also built a secondary hull with windows, then they sure had to build the nacelles too.
Regardless of the intent or the construction realities, it's just a curiosity for me. It poses no problem for my project, since my model is of the set rather than the "real" ship. I only have to deduce where the production team erected that room, and it appears to be in the swing area that shares space with the brig. (The disposal chute and yellow door are big clues.) Of course this is at odds with the fact that when they leave, they come out of the double-blue-doored briefing room ;) but it probably wouldn't have made sense to build the viewing port set room inside that room.
 
Oh, agreed on all that. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. But it wasn't curved for no reason. That takes extra effort in construction; I assume somebody wanted to imply something, and (as with other details) I'm sad it's no longer possible to ask anyone who was there at the time about these kinds of decisions.

Now maybe they just grabbed the Pike/Charlie/Karidian/Brig wall like @Maurice speculated, possibly because it was the best or only big wall handy and not already in use. But I doubt that setpiece was originally structured to be rotated 90°, and it would have taken some effort to adapt it for this use, cover the long shelf, insert the window, brace it against its own curvature for vertical use, etc. Either way, some effort and cost were required, so I generally assume it was for a purpose.


You may very well be right. For me it's not a great headcanon or screencanon fit, though.
  • The room is depicted as being outboard of a circular corridor, and I always have trouble with speculative plans that try to shoehorn c-corridors into the secondary hull (most of the ones I've seen have no space for actual rooms on the outboard side, which is part of the reason I find them hard to accept).
  • Kirk and Odona walk out of his quarters after, well let's call it Kirk's "medical infusion," and hear the banging sounds. Kirk gets a realization and specifically looks ahead down the Jefferies tube corridor, obviously with a destination in mind. They head that way, there's a camera cut, no turbolift ride is seen or implied, and they exit that corridor onto another one with all the typical trappings. As they enter a room with a yellow door across from the disposal chute, Kirk tells Odona this is a viewing port (certainly one of many scattered about the ship). Without a doubt he would have gone to the nearest one available, without wasting time changing decks, and surely there would be viewing ports on the same deck as the captain's quarters. So I find this on-screen evidence not very compatible with a lift ride or ladder climb down multiple decks.
  • I was finding the in-world feasibility of this whole duplicate-ship mockup a bit easier to swallow when I thought they really only needed to build the saucer, or a portion of it. If the Gideons also built a secondary hull with windows, then they sure had to build the nacelles too.
Regardless of the intent or the construction realities, it's just a curiosity for me. It poses no problem for my project, since my model is of the set rather than the "real" ship. I only have to deduce where the production team erected that room, and it appears to be in the swing area that shares space with the brig. (The disposal chute and yellow door are big clues.) Of course this is at odds with the fact that when they leave, they come out of the double-blue-doored briefing room ;) but it probably wouldn't have made sense to build the viewing port set room inside that room.
You're looking at this question a LOT more closely than I am. Now it sounds like Kirk was supposed to be in the saucer, and it sounds like there's no strict way to reconcile the live action with the ship's exterior.

If you have to make it work, then I'd say they went up to the teardrop superstructure in a "condensed transit" kind of film editing. He walked her up a couple flights of stairs, and we aren't going to sit through that.

And the curve in the wall doesn't match the teardrop because there's some fancy structure affecting the interior shape. Then more reductive film editing when they leave the room. It's really better to have never thought about it in the first place.
 
This is (probably) the way.

Well, wait a minute, no! Then we don't have this fascinating discussion! And because sarcasm or the absence of it does not come through the electronically generated word very well, let me be clear that I really mean it—I find this particular discussion extremely absorbing and entertaining.

I've assumed that the Gideonprise was a big, government-funded holodeck since I was a kid and saw the concept played out on TAS. They could have gone with Kirk being out of it, but when Spock "boards," that's the end of that. Of course Spock never tries to look out the window as far as we know, so maybe Kirk is indeed still delusional or whatever when he finds the viewport. But surely we can find a logical place for that wall?

Incidentally, I don't know how long the Gideonites planned to fool Kirk with their elaborate ruse, nor do I understand why it was fully necessary, but I bet their stolen deck plans included the nacelles.
 
Last edited:
Incidentally, I don't know how long the Gideonites planned to fool Kirk with their elaborate ruse, nor do I understand why it was fully necessary, but I bet their strolen deck plans included the nacelles.
The Enterprise "set" is part the new Gideon TV show with the concept of a dashing Starship Captain that finds he is alone on his ship then runs across a beautiful woman. Together they start a romance as they try to solve the mystery. Contestants line up to be the next one on the live action show to die in the arms of the Captain. :weep:
 
FWIW…

In the final draft script, there are a couple of scenes that went unused that take place before Kirk and Odona enter the observation corridor. Scene 67, in particular, happens immediately before they do, and it starts at the med lab. I can confirm that it was filmed because I have several clips from it. In the clips, you can clearly read the sign “ASTRO-MEDICINE WARD 4” in the corridor, next to Kirk and Odona. As implied by the script (extract shown below), the observation corridor is on the same deck as this med lab.

67 INT. CORRIDOR 67

Kirk leads Odona out of the lab and down the corridor. He moves slowly -- listening intently. The sound of the pulse beat is heard.

They walk along -- then they turn a sharp angle.

68 INT. OBSERVATION CORRIDOR 68

As they come in, the beat is steady. They walk a short distance and stop at a control panel.

KIRK
This is a viewing port. We'll be able to see outside -- if it's a storm, we'll see it.

He depresses a button.

KIRK
(continuing)
If it works...

Nothing happens --

Kirk reaches for a lever to try the manual control.

69 ANGLE TO VIEWING PORT 69

The panel slides open.

70 INSERT - THE FACES STARE AT THEM 70

Kirk and Odona step back in fear. They look at each other.
 
All true. An idiotically unbelievable plan.

Speaking of idiots, I must be one too because probably the detail that bugs me most is this:
mark-of-gideon-br-370.jpg

TrekCore​
What on earth were they trying to imply with this set design?
It was a third year moment, the majority of which were soup sandwiches.
 
The Enterprise "set" is part the new Gideon TV show with the concept of a dashing Starship Captain that finds he is alone on his ship then runs across a beautiful woman. Together they start a romance as they try to solve the mystery. Contestants line up to be the next one on the live action show to die in the arms of the Captain. :weep:

That's very good. :rommie: You know, "Mark" arguably has more fundamental plot issues than any other entry in the entire series—(Was it a holodeck? What were Hodin and Company trying to do exactly? What did Odona know and when did she know it?)—but it's definitely in my top half of episodes for numerous reasons, including great work by Shatner and Nimoy both. The bridge crew and Kelley are also excellent. And the atmosphere is so interesting and compelling, as are the general concepts of overpopulation and (of course—it's S3!) disease. There's even a reproductive choice subtext. Plus, Sharon Acker is not only absolutely beautiful and utterly endearing at the same time as you noted in part, but far more importantly she turns in a very convincing and earnest performance.

Naturally this one gets roundly dismissed because "hey, it's S3 and LOOK AT THESE PLOT ISSUES," but IMHO you could actually write an entire book, and a very entertaining one at that, analyzing it.
 
Regarding the implausible aspects of Gideon, all they really needed was a bottle show to be filmed on the standing sets.

Gideon had the budget for two new little sets (Hodin's office and the viewing port), and four guest speaking parts (Hodin, Odonna, Krodak, and Admiral). They just needed a better idea. We should have met up with another Connie, so our standing sets, and the speaking parts would be its captain, first officer, and doctor. Then just have a believable story idea, and maybe don't kill billions of people with a virus. That's all they needed. And don't kill the other starship's crew, because we've done that too many times already. Just tell a story.

With money and shooting days so tight in S3, this would have saved one speaking part, and the guests wouldn't need alien costumes, just uniforms from existing wardrobe. What were they thinking?
 
Turnabout Intruder…yes, the coda for TOS. It starts out fairly interesting but then it plods along at a snails pace with very little action. Ho-hum.
 
Turnabout Intruder…yes, the coda for TOS. It starts out fairly interesting but then it plods along at a snails pace with very little action. Ho-hum.
When Lester (within Kirk) goes on the intercom to say Spock and company are in trouble for trying to ''take away the ship from your Captain,'' LesterKirk acts rather.....Presidential.:borg:
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top