The Defiant Should Have Had Its Own Crew

[Crewman6]

Realistically, the Defiant should never have been going far from the station to begin with. If the whole point of the ship is defend the station and the wormhole entrance then you don't be going out on jaunts to star systems days or weeks away. We know why they did it though for story driven narrative, but it was still a dumb tactical idea.

"Restricting the Defiant to guard duty would be a serious mistake."
-Lt. Commander Worf, Executive Officer, USS Defiant

 

[Crewman6]

I would have liked to see Worf command Defiant. It just would not have been practicable in the context of the show runners, screen time for the respective crews and, probably, the story telling.

He commanded the Defiant on his own on numerous occasions, on both the big and small screen.

 

[Crewman6]

I think of Adam Scott, who played the helm officer in First Contact, as purely Defiant crew. I presume he survived the film, and we'd never seen him before or after because the Defiant missions we saw always involved the main cast, but he's somewhere on the ship.

He's dead as a doornail, even though the actor himself was hoping they'd revisit the character.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

He's dead as a doornail, even though the actor himself was hoping they'd revisit the character.

In true comic book fashion, though, we never saw a body.

 

[Crewman6]

In true comic book fashion, though, we never saw a body.

Even when we see a body, there's always a workaround.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Jean Grey says hello.

 

[Uxi]

Would definitely not be allowing Kira and Odo on board routinely without an escort. Would make more sense if they stayed on the station and did their jobs anyway.

 

[Crewman6]

Would definitely not be allowing Kira and Odo on board routinely without an escort. Would make more sense if they stayed on the station and did their jobs anyway.

That's absurd. US military personnel routinely serve in foreign military installations and vice-versa. They don't need to be "escorted" during the routine performance of their duties.

Yes, Kira and Odo often go off on Defiant missions, but at least occasionally, the writers acknowledge they don't need to be there. But, at least in the case of Kira, since the Defiant is quite often just an extension of the station's command, her presence is logical and consistent.

And, of course, it's a TV show and TV shows don't bench their regular characters for capricious reasons, even if it requires very lightly bending "reality."

But, hey, I'm sure you'd enjoy the Delta Flyers, as Armin Shimmerman can't seem to shut up about Odo and Kira being on Defiant missions.

 

[Uxi]

That's absurd. US military personnel routinely serve in foreign military installations and vice-versa. They don't need to be "escorted" during the routine performance of their duties.

Yes, Kira and Odo often go off on Defiant missions, but at least occasionally, the writers acknowledge they don't need to be there. But, at least in the case of Kira, since the Defiant is quite often just an extension of the station's command, her presence is logical and consistent.

And, of course, it's a TV show and TV shows don't bench their regular characters for capricious reasons, even if it requires very lightly bending "reality."

But, hey, I'm sure you'd enjoy the Delta Flyers, as Armin Shimmerman can't seem to shut up about Odo and Kira being on Defiant missions.

Not when space is tight and qualifications are high like say... nuclear submarines as the closest example. Odo might have been taken especially if they were looking for the Founders, but routine missions XO of the station would be best left on the station especially when the CO is leaving too and no other chain of command was established.

Yeah it's a TV show and they're going to re-use cast. Could have also been easy to have an extra with no lines and have a line from someone else saying he's X position on the Defiant.

 

[Uxi]

Well, yeah. That would be the most realistic way. The Defiant's regular crew would be doing drills and learning how to use that amazing ship when they weren't in combat - training is what makes it effective in combat.

This and they glossed over the ship's design flaws (too much power in too small a ship) a bit too easily. Should have been ongoing trouble and pulling teeth keeping from ripping itself apart, stressed parts needing to be replaced. Struggling to get it off the docking clamps and not being an time and moneypit hangar queen. Starfleet Brass saying it might be easier to assign a Miranda at first and then an Intrepid and Sisko pushing back that he can get it done and then him telling O'brien he has to get it done and put the Upper Pylon business on hold until after that.

Of course that same thing happened with the different Bajoran factions and the provisional government proved a bit more stable than it probably should have been. DS9 had great writing, of course, though they definitely dropped some pieces here and there. Same thing with the religious angle. Even if Kai, Wynn should have still be facing different factions of Vedeks instead of them all falling nicely in line especially when she was introduced as the leader of a small sect. Both should have given the overall impression of trying to herd cats on a world that had many issues to work through before Federation membership could be on the table.

 

[Crewman6]

Not when space is tight and qualifications are high like say... nuclear submarines as the closest example. Odo might have been taken especially if they were looking for the Founders, but routine missions XO of the station would be best left on the station especially when the CO is leaving too and no other chain of command was established.

Kira is often on the station during Defiant missions and sometimes she isn't. There's no logical problem with her being on the Defiant sometimes.

Yeah it's a TV show and they're going to re-use cast. Could have also been easy to have an extra with no lines and have a line from someone else saying he's X position on the Defiant.

What the hell would be the point of that?! Why would you have a useless extra? Guess what, TNG had that problem since they moved their series regular off the conn position after season 1 and the replacement left in Season 4. It's a friggin' waste and it's dumb.

It's not about "re-using" the cast, it's about using the series regular characters, who are paid every week and who the show is supposed to actually be about. Not throwing in a useless body for no reason.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

DS9 had plenty of only mentioned in dialogue characters who were more fun to imagine than see.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well, the series bible isn't actually canon, it's just a guide for the writers and clearly the idea of "20 starfleet personnel" was something never codified and seems wrong from the jump.


Granted, there's a throwaway reference to the station having "300" people on it in, but that was very early on in the show's run and clearly the number ballooned far beyond that before too long.

But we see a lot more than 20 starfleet officers, even in that first season.

20 in the pilot.

Their job was to teach the Bojorans how to be self sufficient, not to take over and tell their dock workers, security and mechanics to %%uck off, so that the station did not blow up and crash into the planet killing billions.

Originally Bajor was a nowhere ditchwater boon dock the Federation did not care about, which is why they sent a burnt out loser with severe emotional problems like Ben Sisko to take care of business.

Post Wormhole, Starfleet reevaluated the mission and sent more boots, and they probably wanted to make Ben third officer, or send him some where far, far away and less important, befitting his unpredictable capabilities, but Bajor said "Nope."

 

[Crewman6]

20 in the pilot.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is never stated anywhere in the pilot and, as for your "bible passage", it took me a few seconds to track this down, which says "by episode three, there will be fifty starfleet officers" aboard. Okay, so maybe 20 is plausible in pre-wormhole DS9, but it's just speculation on your part.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Show Bible

View the show bible for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993-1999) by Rick Berman, Michael Piller. Browse examples of show bibles, pitch documents, and writer guidelines from hit TV series on showbibles.com

showbibles.com

Post Wormhole, Starfleet reevaluated the mission and sent more boots, and they probably wanted to make Ben third officer, or send him some where far, far away and less important, befitting his unpredictable capabilities, but Bajor said "Nope."

Amusing, but more speculation on your part. Sisko was recommended personally by high-ranking muckety muck Admiral Leyton and even Picard probably signed off on him after the events of Emissary, despite Sisko being a huge douche during their first meeting.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is never stated anywhere in the pilot and, as for your "bible passage", it took me a few seconds to track this down, which says "by episode three, there will be fifty starfleet officers" aboard. Okay, so maybe 20 is plausible in pre-wormhole DS9, but it's just speculation on your part.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Show Bible

View the show bible for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993-1999) by Rick Berman, Michael Piller. Browse examples of show bibles, pitch documents, and writer guidelines from hit TV series on showbibles.com

showbibles.com

Amusing, but more speculation on your part. Sisko was recommended personally by high-ranking muckety muck Admiral Leyton and even Picard probably signed off on him after the events of Emissary, despite Sisko being a huge douche during their first meeting.

I said "in the bible" from the beginning, so I have always known it wasn't canon, but it is interesting. the whole reason we got a commander and not a captain, is because Bajor is a run down broke ass assignment that Starfleet begrudgingly agreed to half ass.

Post occupation Bajor had been strip mined during a holocaust, and most of it's feral beaten or orphaned people had not been taught to read or bathe.

It's like trying to bring culture to New Jersey.

 

[Farscape One]

We have seen Commanders be the ranking officer of bases in the past.

Commander Quinteros in '11001001" and Commander Hutchinson in "Starship Mine" immediately spring to mind.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is never stated anywhere in the pilot and, as for your "bible passage", it took me a few seconds to track this down, which says "by episode three, there will be fifty starfleet officers" aboard. Okay, so maybe 20 is plausible in pre-wormhole DS9, but it's just speculation on your part.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Show Bible

View the show bible for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993-1999) by Rick Berman, Michael Piller. Browse examples of show bibles, pitch documents, and writer guidelines from hit TV series on showbibles.com

showbibles.com

Amusing, but more speculation on your part. Sisko was recommended personally by high-ranking muckety muck Admiral Leyton and even Picard probably signed off on him after the events of Emissary, despite Sisko being a huge douche during their first meeting.

I wouldn't say Sisko was being a douche to Picard. Not really pleasant, sure. But he is face to face with the person who was directly responsible for killing his wife. (And I know Picard himself didn't do it, but it was his face, Borgified, that Sisko saw at Wolf 359.) I thought he handled it pretty well, honestly. Plus, the scene was necessary so we can get the last one with Sisko and Picard and you can see Sisko's demeanor is of someone who is starting to move on from the pain.


Also, it was about time Picard got to encounter someone personally affected from Wolf 359. It was a good scene... we got to see Picard's reaction after knowing they previously met in battle, which Stewart did a good job with.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not when space is tight and qualifications are high like say... nuclear submarines as the closest example. Odo might have been taken especially if they were looking for the Founders, but routine missions XO of the station would be best left on the station especially when the CO is leaving too and no other chain of command was established.

Yeah it's a TV show and they're going to re-use cast. Could have also been easy to have an extra with no lines and have a line from someone else saying he's X position on the Defiant.

If Starfleet won't let Kira and Odo on the Defiant, then Kira or Odo don't let that ship enter (or leave) Bajoran space.

 

[Mage]

If the station is indeed near the borders of the Federation and near unexplored space...
I assume this because Bajor is not part of the Federation and Cardassian space seems right around the corner, and the show often giving us the feeling it is near the edges of Federations space....

One would assume that by the time season 2 ends/season 3 starts, the station would have several Starfleet ships assigned to it that would use it as a base to explore unknown space. Even things like SCE ship, or a medical ship. Some support ships and such.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If the station is indeed near the borders of the Federation and near unexplored space...
I assume this because Bajor is not part of the Federation and Cardassian space seems right around the corner, and the show often giving us the feeling it is near the edges of Federations space....

One would assume that by the time season 2 ends/season 3 starts, the station would have several Starfleet ships assigned to it that would use it as a base to explore unknown space. Even things like SCE ship, or a medical ship. Some support ships and such.

The non canon technical manual says that the distance between Earth and Bajor is 52 light years.

Bajoran Solar sailors "survived" the trek to Cardassia Prime at Warp One.

From his attitude, it seems to take Joe Sisko weeks to scoot across the universe to see his son orbiting a Wormhole, via civilian transports. Irregular low warp, short hops, huge layovers?

The Defiant zoomed to Earth in less than a day from near Bajor, in Paradise Lost, even though the trip should have taken 11 days at a comfortable clip. ^^ck me, that sounds like the miracle of Hanukkah in reverse.

How Starfleet Explores the Galaxy is probably decided by committee, decades in advance. Colonization of the Gamma Quadrant by the Federation would be unfeasible until after Bajor joins the Federation since Bajor could close the bottle neck entirely or suddenly charge unreasonable tolls to use the Wormhole, just like what Iran is doing in the Straight of Hormuz, right now.

 

[BillJ]

What I was always surprised by was the lack of diplomatic folks on DS9. Once the Wormhole opened, DS9 should’ve needed a diplomatic team.