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News? Stories from Dubious Sources

BillJ said:
There have been drumbeats that current Star Trek has been ruining the franchise since 1987.

:guffaw:

I’d say, more than anything, that toxic fandom is ruining the franchise far more than any other element.
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I think it's a mix of factors at this moment. And the supposed enjoyment is drowned out by the toxicity elements and yes, it probably is selfish, but I'm not inclined to have more content produced for people to whine about.
 
I would be lying if I said the consistent whining and actively pining for shows to fail because someone doesn’t like it doesn’t annoy me. But I try to disengage from the internet at the point it really gets to me because it ain’t healthy to focus so deeply on that nonsense.
 
BillJ said:
In all honesty, Prodigy was fantastic. It failed because fandom thought an animated show about teenagers was beneath them.
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Interesting take. My understanding was that it failed because *only" existing fans watched it. It was supposed to bring in a new audience of kids via Nickelodeon, but clearly did not do that.
 
Tomalak said:
Interesting take. My understanding was that it failed because *only" existing fans watched it. It was supposed to bring in a new audience of kids via Nickelodeon, but clearly did not do that.
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In all honesty, I felt there was very little there pointed at children.
 
Nerys Myk said:
What? There have been quite a few episodes that fit that description. Not sure how CGI or serial storytelling somehow prevents that. Off the top of my head I’d offer “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” and “Under the Cloak of War” as examples.
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Of course there are a few... But honestly, how well do we know Ortegas, Chapel, Tilly, Stamets, Raffi etc. etc.

But bottle episodes are mostly a thing of the past. And serial storytelling (and less episodes) on shows like Discovery prevented us getting to know these characters really well, like on DS9 and VOY.

Like SNW, in 3 seasons we've had one Una-centric episode and 0 Ortegas. I don't know these characters at all. By season 3 of DS9 I knew all the characters like the back of my hand.

I'm not saying we should go back to how it was, but I don't think continuing the same way will bring Star Trek succes either...
 
Visitor1982 said:
I'm not saying we should go back to how it was, but I don't think continuing the same way will bring Star Trek succes either...
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Rumor has it that the new owners want to take the franchise back to cinemas. So you won’t have to worry about it.
 
It’s a different time. I would absolutely love another 50 episodes of SNW. But I’m not getting them so I’m enjoying the 46 that we’re getting. Unfortunately that means fewer characters get completely fleshed out.
 
Visitor1982 said:
Of course there are a few... But honestly, how well do we know Ortegas, Chapel, Tilly, Stamets, Raffi etc. etc.

But bottle episodes are mostly a thing of the past. And serial storytelling (and less episodes) on shows like Discovery prevented us getting to know these characters really well, like on DS9 and VOY.

Like SNW, in 3 seasons we've had one Una-centric episode and 0 Ortegas. I don't know these characters at all. By season 3 of DS9 I knew all the characters like the back of my hand.

I'm not saying we should go back to how it was, but I don't think continuing the same way will bring Star Trek succes either...
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Better than we know some of the characters from the Roddenberry and Berman Eras and less than others. Them showing up in every episode doesn't equal "development." Many so called main characters were shut out of ant significant development. They'd get tossed a bone or two every season at best. So I can't hold up Old Trek at the "Golden Age" of character depth.

Ortegas is pretty well developed for a character who has has one focus episode. A very distinct personality. We've met her brother. We know she was a pilot in the war. Seems to suffer from PTSD. And of course, she flies the ship.

Chapel has been at the forefront of several SNW episodes. She's pretty much the female lead at this point. Had a whole backstory episode that she shared with M'Benga, fleshing out their relationship. So I don't know why she made your list.

We got a fair amount of backstory on Tilly and Raffi too, IIRC.
 
Tomalak said:
Agreed. The first season more so, but the second was aimed squarely at legacy fans.
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If we look at sheer numbers of posts in these forums, Prodigy is dead last by a wide margin. The hardcore seemed to have rejected it.
 
Visitor1982 said:
I'm just not so sure Star Trek fits on streaming TV. That's got nothing to do with Kurtzman. But with the fact that we all love Star Trek because we had over 100, 150 episodes of getting to know these characters per series. These bottle episodes about Kira, Odo, Seven of Nine, The Doctor, Data, Pulaski, Trip or T'Pol... These season cliffhangers or two parters in the middle of the season were great, with action and battles etc. But we truly cared because we got to know these people onboard these ships or stations... Now, with 10 episodes and bigger budgets and CGI and continuing storylines, the deeper, well-written episodes about these characters are a thing of the past... And therefor a defining quality of Star Trek is gone and it has become a bit more generic, a bit lifeless perhaps. To me at least.
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Even if Star Trek weren't on streaming, we wouldn't be getting what you seem to want. Star Trek will never last on modern networks. First run syndication is no longer a thing. Maybe Star Trek could have stood a chance on cable. But assuming Disco still premiered in 2017 on a cable channel, the most you could expect is a season of 16 episodes, and to be honest it might still have ended after five seasons anyway.
 
The Wormhole said:
But assuming Disco still premiered in 2017 on a cable channel, the most you could expect is a season of 16 episodes, and to be honest it might still have ended after five seasons anyway.
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What it cost to make, it would’ve never survived on cable. Honestly, you take any Trek series, (somehow) making it brand new and it would probably fail in the current climate.
 
Visitor1982 said:
That one was barely about her...
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Terrarium wasn't about her? :vulcan:

Nerys Myk said:
Terrarium? It's basically a two hander with Ortegas and the Gorn.
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Thank you.

Nerys Myk said:
Better than we know some of the characters from the Roddenberry and Berman Eras and less than others. Them showing up in every episode doesn't equal "development." Many so called main characters were shut out of ant significant development. They'd get tossed a bone or two every season at best. So I can't hold up Old Trek at the "Golden Age" of character depth.

Ortegas is pretty well developed for a character who has has one focus episode. A very distinct personality. We've met her brother. We know she was a pilot in the war. Seems to suffer from PTSD. And of course, she flies the ship.

Chapel has been at the forefront of several SNW episodes. She's pretty much the female lead at this point. Had a whole backstory episode that she shared with M'Benga, fleshing out their relationship. So I don't know why she made your list.

We got a fair amount of backstory on Tilly and Raffi too, IIRC.
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What made the list is the lack of time. I've noticed that longer seasons are considered more desirable because it's more time to get to know people.

Me? I get invested in people easily enough that if it works ten episodes is sufficient. I'm not looking for focus episodes, but just watching the characters, facial movements, body language and chemistry than the characters are more appreciable even in short seasons.
 
fireproof78 said:
What made the list is the lack of time. I've noticed that longer seasons are considered more desirable because it's more time to get to know people.
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Yet we don't. TOS had the longest seasons and we never got to know Uhura, Sulu, Scotty or Chekov beyond the surface level ( And don't get me started on Chapel) even with over a decade of movies. Same can be said for the other shows. Quantity isn't quality.
 
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