Was slavery legal in the UFP?

[The Salt Umpire]

Rewatched The Menagerie and a line at the beginning struck me. In the scene where Dr Boyce plays bartender, Chris is pondering other possibilities;

PIKE: I said that's one place I might go. I might go into business on Regulus or on the Orion colony.
BOYCE: You, an Orion trader, dealing in green animal women, slaves?

No mention is made of the illegality of trafficking warp capable beings as a possible career choice for a starship captain. Ex captains don't usually go into criminal enterprises. It's mentioned quite casually. The same with profiting from trafficking. And a colony exists to do this. The language describes them as vicious and hypersexualized...which are words often used to describe those seen as subhuman, like "Indian savages".

Just a thought.

 

[BillJ]

Orion is not part of the UFP.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

I know that. But a high ranking member of the science and military arm of the UFP is considering it as a job.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm sure they do other business on Orion and that wasn't what Pike was talking about. That's just where Boyce's mind went to. And because he said it, it's where Pike's mind went to later when he saw green Vina.

 

[BillJ]

I know that. But a high ranking member of the science and military arm of the UFP is considering it as a job.

And? We all have idle thoughts that we never act upon. Pike was just burned out.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The situation in "The Cloud Minders" is more on point. Ardana was a member of the Federation, and the Federation did not seem terribly concerned about how the zenite was being mined until the Disrupters interrupted delivery, setting off the events of the story.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

The situation in "The Cloud Minders" is more on point. Ardana was a member of the Federation, and the Federation did not seem terribly concerned about how the zenite was being mined until the Disrupters interrupted delivery, setting off the events of the story.

And the end result was instituting better working conditions for the slaves while Spock says goodbye to his girlcrush. At least their hands weren't cut off like the Conquistadors would do here.

 

[BillJ]

At least their hands weren't cut off like the Conquistadors would do here.

Very short sighted. How were they supposed to mine without hands?!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"The Cloud Minders" and Metropolis have quite a bit in common.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

Very short sighted. How were they supposed to mine without hands?!

I dunno, but Columbus did that to the natives he "discovered" for not mining their quota and the Spanish continued to do it after. His second and third voyages bought back tonnes of the stuff.

 

[Greg Cox]

The situation in "The Cloud Minders" is more on point. Ardana was a member of the Federation, and the Federation did not seem terribly concerned about how the zenite was being mined until the Disrupters interrupted delivery, setting off the events of the story.

The Federation in TOS seemed more like a loose confederation of allied worlds than some large, centralized interstellar government. With each planet largely left to their devices and some of the more remote worlds seldom visited by strangers.

Note how often Spock needs to explain Vulcan culture and history to his crewmates, if only for the sake of the audience. One gets the impression -- on TOS at least -- that Vulcan is still an exotic and mysterious place for the average human. (This doesn't quite mesh with later series depicting Earth and Vulcan being well-acquainted for centuries by then, but, of course, none of that had been established back in sixties.)

With regards to Ardana, it seems like the Federation at large had no idea what was actually going on there -- and made the mistake of taking the oh-so cultured and civilized Ardanans at face value.

Oops!

 

[Nerys Myk]

There's a lot of orientalism is early TOS. The "exotic east" and all that.

 

[The Lensman]

The Federation in TOS seemed more like a loose confederation of allied worlds than some large, centralized interstellar government. With each planet largely left to their devices and some of the more remote worlds seldom visited by strangers.

Note how often Spock needs to explain Vulcan culture and history to his crewmates, if only for the sake of the audience. One gets the impression -- on TOS at least -- that Vulcan is still an exotic and mysterious place for the average human. (This doesn't quite mesh with later series depicting Earth and Vulcan being well-acquainted for centuries by then, but, of course, none of that had been established back in sixties.)

Well said. I also get the impression that Spock, in the context of the Western dominated 60's, was essentially the "Native American" character who had special abilities (as Native American's often seemed to have had Jedi level tracking ability, in tune with nature, etc) who's culture was mysterious and largely unknown to the viewer, and who's people were "conquered" (mentioned once, but never expanded upon). And like those characters, he tended to be the only one in the main cast. I do like in "Mirror, Mirror" that Evil Spock's henchmen are Vulcan. Weird that we never saw another one on our Enterprise.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm sure they do other business on Orion and that wasn't what Pike was talking about. That's just where Boyce's mind went to. And because he said it, it's where Pike's mind went to later when he saw green Vina.

"Have You Ever Considered Piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Well said. I also get the impression that Spock, in the context of the Western dominated 60's, was essentially the "Native American" character who had special abilities (as Native American's often seemed to have had Jedi level tracking ability, in tune with nature, etc) who's culture was mysterious and largely unknown to the viewer, and who's people were "conquered". And like those characters, he tended to be the only one in the main cast. I do like in "Mirror, Mirror" that Evil Spock's henchmen are Vulcan. Weird that we never saw another one on our Enterprise.

Spot on.

Interestingly and perhaps not coincidentally, there's a reference early in the series to Vulcan having been conquered.

(Searching.) Found it. In "The Conscience of the King" [transcript]:

SPOCK: My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol.​

MCCOY: Now I know why they were conquered. What are you so worried about, anyway? I find Jim generally knows what he's doing.​

My assumption would be to categorize it as an example of so-called early-installment weirdness, because of course it doesn't mesh with the later reference in "The Immunity Syndrome" [transcript]:

SPOCK: True. It is also true they never knew what was killing them. Their logic would not have permitted them to believe they were being killed.​

KIRK: Explain.​

SPOCK: Vulcan has not been conquered within its collective memory. The memory goes back so far that no Vulcan can conceive of a conqueror. I knew the ship was lost because I sensed it.​

 

[The Lensman]

Spot on.

Interestingly and perhaps not coincidentally, there's a reference early in the series to Vulcan having been conquered.

(Searching.) Found it. In "The Conscience of the King" [transcript]:

SPOCK: My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol.​

MCCOY: Now I know why they were conquered. What are you so worried about, anyway? I find Jim generally knows what he's doing.​

My assumption would be to categorize it as an example of so-called early-installment weirdness, because of course it doesn't mesh with the later reference in "The Immunity Syndrome" [transcript]:

SPOCK: True. It is also true they never knew what was killing them. Their logic would not have permitted them to believe they were being killed.​

KIRK: Explain.​

SPOCK: Vulcan has not been conquered within its collective memory. The memory goes back so far that no Vulcan can conceive of a conqueror. I knew the ship was lost because I sensed it.​

Thanks! I couldn't remember the episode where that was uttered, for some reason I thought it was a little later, but yeah, they never really expanded or followed up on that. Maybe it made it seem like Spock was "allowed" to serve with Earthmen, but not really being equal despite being smarter. By the time we get to Journey To Babel, we feel like Vulcan stands beside Earth as an equal and always has done.

 

[Denise]

So was Vulcan conquered or not? I think I trust Spock on this rather than McCoy. So does McCoy not know Vulcan history? Why doesn't Spock correct him?

 

[Nerys Myk]

So was Vulcan conquered or not? I think I trust Spock on this rather than McCoy. So does McCoy not know Vulcan history? Why doesn't Spock correct him?

It was, until it wasn't.

 

[drt]

Even as a kid, I had the sense that the "conquered" line was McCoy teasing Spock, as the way Kelly delivered the line never really seemed to me that he meant that Vulcan was actually conqured.

Now as an adult, I wonder if the intent was a more figurative "conquering" - like Earthmen showing up at Vulcan and ending their isolationism or something, similar to Commodore Perry sailing into Tokyo Bay.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Even as a kid, I had the sense that the "conquered" line was McCoy teasing Spock, as the way Kelly delivered the line never really seemed to me that he meant that Vulcan was actually conqured.

Now as an adult, I wonder if the intent was a more figurative "conquering" - like Earthmen showing up at Vulcan and ending their isolationism or something, similar to Commodore Perry sailing into Tokyo Bay.

I've theorized that the Vulcans were meant to be somewhat analogous to the Japanese. An enemy turned ally. America defeated and occupied Japan post WWII. The Earth/Vulcan situation might be similar.