I highly doubt that.
I highly doubt that.
Samesies.
I think it's possible the film could have been saved, had it had large re-writes. First to be written out: the awful what were they thinking Uhura naked fan dance. That's the best thing they could come up for her character? Dumb.
From everything I'd read, she enjoyed it. Her only disappointment was them not using her singing voice in the film. Since Uhura sang on the series, it worked for me even though it was - again - in the service of jokez.
Honestly, the first thing I would have scrubbed was 55+ year old Kirk with a gut freeclimbing El Capitan. That alone broke whatever tenuous grip the films had on reality.
Uhura’s dance was hardly the reason why the film failed.
I didn't say it was.
Well, when you said ‘I think it's possible the film could have been saved,’ that seemed to imply that your hypothesis about removing Uhura’s dance would have been some sort of major improvement. Which is incorrect.
IIRC Bill George told me that the Klingon model had been damaged due to being improperly packed, and they had to spend some $ to fix it for ST6.
Now that you mention it, I think I heard about that before. Perhaps they could have used Greg Jein’s molds from his TNG warbird to create a TMP-era Romulan ship. Although this is obviously moot because the movie wasn’t about Romulans.
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I love the movie, it was the most TOS of all the movies. It could have used some better FX for part of the movie, but over-all, I think its just fine the way it is. A bit of adventure, a bit of comedy, a focus on the Trio, some philosophy, some Klingons, Kirk vs a godlike entity, it hit all the right marks for me, even had a TOS style cold open. It was finally STAR TREK on the big screen, and not just a big screen adventure ft Star Trek characters. I would barely change a thing. (Of course, it was the first Trek movie I saw in a theater, in a double feature with Last Crusade, and a great memory for me, so I could be biased.)
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I will point out the perceived flaws and things I'd improve all day and night, but I have to admit that I don't disagree with any of your post. I felt the same way since opening night. I love this movie. It captures everything I love about Star Trek, has the original cast and is a lot of fun.
And, yes, I like it more than TUC or TVH.
Mostly, I'd dial back some of the weird off-character jokes and those bits that remove import from what coul dhave been big scenes. Like, I dunno, when Spock is explaining who Sybok is and Kirk is throwing a tantrum.
But the "Do Not Use While In Space dock" sign over the brig toilet is outstanding.
yeah, that SHOOT HIM! bit is a little out of character, and Sybok would work just as well as an old friend/classmate/mentor/associate of Spock's as a half brother; i'm not saying the movie is perfect, but the thought that it needs SAVING I completely disagree with.
Most of the character bits aren't as out of line as peole say, IMO.
Scotty and Uhura? I have no issue with that, its foreshadowed in the last scene of TVH when he's complaining about Excelsior, and she puts his hand on his shoulder to comfort him; they have worked together for years, he is going through a lot of loss (peter preston) and they are getting a bit late in life... why not? The trio are perfect, especially while camping; "Captain Chekov" is perfect, the action adventure bit on Nimbus 3 is perfect. Scotty bumping his head is a little slapstick, but not his arrogance about knowing the ship, and he makes up for it with the jailbreak. Everything after the 3 of them face their pain is appropriately serious, deep and philsophical. Spock in the gunnars chair after the ambassador pulls rank is a great move. Kirk's joy at seeing Spock is almost like a reverse of the end of Amok Time. I just see the love and camaraderie and would barely change a thing.
If the scene of Scotty whacking his head were cut quickly, before he fell, it may have worked better as a a bit of shock humor. Add some "Scotty curses" on the soundtrack and it's on par with anything else in TUC. Besides, I've konked my head plenty of times in my own home. My wife thought it was funny. 
some problems I had with 'V'
1. The whole brother thing was absurd and gratuitous. In fact I think it would have had MORE impact if Sybock was not family but th leader of, a Cult whose message/vision appealed to Spock, and tried to seduce him...then Spock sees the cult's true colors and quits it...to show how ANYONE, even Spock, can be seduced by the proper messaging and deception (he learns this in 6 with Valeris btw)
2. The humor was infantile. Look at the humor in ST IV, it is witty, contextual and perfect. in 'V' it leaned on slapstick too much as well as turning Sulu and Chekov into buffoons. (ST 6 furthers this bay making Chekov even more incompetent/clueless).
3. Again the 'brother' thing creates a discrepancy as Kirk says "I lost a brother once, I got him back", referring to Spock...hey James, did you forget about Sam Kirk already?
4. a 60 yr old Uhura gyrating in a skin tight outfit...umm no thanks....more so the entire crew of 60 somethings storming a base like 20-something Navy SeALs? not buying it...
5. The entire plot and story was a little too, well, pseudo-intellectual.
1. The whole brother thing was absurd and gratuitous. In fact I think it would have had MORE impact if Sybock was not family but th leader of, a Cult whose message/vision appealed to Spock, and tried to seduce him...then Spock sees the cult's true colors and quits it...to show how ANYONE, even Spock, can be seduced by the proper messaging and deception (he learns this in 6 with Valeris btw)
2. The humor was infantile. Look at the humor in ST IV, it is witty, contextual and perfect. in 'V' it leaned on slapstick too much as well as turning Sulu and Chekov into buffoons. (ST 6 furthers this bay making Chekov even more incompetent/clueless).
3. Again the 'brother' thing creates a discrepancy as Kirk says "I lost a brother once, I got him back", referring to Spock...hey James, did you forget about Sam Kirk already?
4. a 60 yr old Uhura gyrating in a skin tight outfit...umm no thanks....more so the entire crew of 60 somethings storming a base like 20-something Navy SeALs? not buying it...
5. The entire plot and story was a little too, well, pseudo-intellectual.
Eh, the humor in TUC was meta in some spots ("I can't believe I kissed you," "Must have been your lifelong ambition" was about Shatner not Kirk), Chekov - as you say - was made to look like an idiot for the sake of humor (the entire Crewman Dax scene is awful). The whole "Klingon outpost" scene reeks of an overbaked gag that dilutes the tension. The movie is FILLED with jokes when it should be tight, tense and suspenseful.
Yeah, the humor in TFF reflects Shatner's sens of humor, but there are some great subtle jokes as well. But agreed, some of it is juvenile and ill placed.
There's no reason to believe that Kirk isn't thinking of Sam in that moment. I always believed that Spock and McCoy are supposed to think he is. But then Kirk subverts expectations and reveals he was talking about Spock. McCoy cements this with "I thought you said men like us don't have families" but Kirk admits he was wrong. He may not have a wife and kid (anymore) but he does still have brothers.
The comic adaptation and maybe the novelization smooth this over with a quick line fix: "I got one of them back." But either way, it works.
Besides, I find it hard to believe that Harve Bennett watched all 79 episodes, littered the films with subtle references, was preparing to make a prequel movie and didn't know about Sam.
There were plenty of younger commandos in the landing party. They were the guys loading their weapons in the shuttle craft.
Uhura's outfit wasn't skin tight - and if she was and you didn't like it that's really on you. But nothing she wore was inappropriate or offensive.
She did have a naked fan dance, which people complain about. Mostly because they see it as demeaning even though Nichelle enjoyed doing it.
Nothing new to Star Trek, honestly.
I think it's clearly a reference to Spock, no matter how much the idea sets off out continuity sensors.
This is the same guy who had Khan remembering Chekov.
Well, Harve's dead, so we can't ask him. But it's not a lock either way. I read Shatner's face and it's sad until he flips it. I prefer to assume they had this worked out instead of going with "those idiots forgot Sam."
Or was it George?
This is the same guy who had Khan remembering Chekov.
Dramatic license. The only person to logically pick was Uhura since she was the only one of the main supporting cast in that episode. But listening to her scream while getting the Eel wouldn't have been all that amazing. Arguably worse than Chekov.
But he got a ton of obscure references in there. He knew his lore.
Hard to truly know the thought process. Things might play out differently with Uhura on the Reliant.
It would be a straight swap. They wouldn't bring Uhura on instead of Chekov, leave her off the landing party and then leave her behind after Khan beams up. That takes her out of the movie before act 2. There's no changing the script, story wise, Meyer was doing it in a hurry as it is.
Assume the same script but just putting in the one semi-regular who was in Space Seed. Uhura would be in the spacesuit getting the eel and screaming. The scene is rough as is. Uhura being tortured just feels worse.
They could have used Kyle. He was the only person on the reliant who was actually in the episode. But then a regular cast member loses a plumb role. That wasn't gonna happen.
Chekov or Sulu, those would be the two choices and neither were in the episode. They went with the guy who has a good track record for screaming on Star Trek.
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