Transition and explanation of SNW into TOS technology

[rabbid_outside_cage]

I personally just treat the differences the same way most people treat a character being recast.

Exactly, TOS looks like it looks due to budget limit an asthetics of 1960's Sci-Fi (another example of it is Forbidden Planet from which Star Trek designers took inspiration.)
Asthetics constantly evolve.
TMP Enterprise is TOTALLY different from TOS one while keeping it's charateristic details and overall shape, bridge consoles, chairs, corriors are also different due not only to bigger budget but to what 1970's looked (McCoy wears 70's clothes!).
Then came TNG and 1980's where it gave standard of how ships look will look like to 2000's (Designers tried to go outside limitations of so called "Ape Brain" - shoutout to Doug Drexler, and create asthetics that will be not connected to any of curent trends.)
Finally came Enterpise and NASA Punk asthetics, more grouned in reality, yet keeping shapes and technology we know from TOS.
Discovery and SNW went direction of Enterprise and evelove it's technology yet keeping a nods from TOS (shape of captain's chair on Enterprise, shuttles, phasers, tricoders etc.)

I don't see problem in explaining why metal box became cardboard, because designers kept same shape, have bigger budget and look into contemporary art styles.

 

[knightgrace]

Exactly, TOS looks like it looks due to budget limit an asthetics of 1960's Sci-Fi (another example of it is Forbidden Planet from which Star Trek designers took inspiration.)
Asthetics constantly evolve.
TMP Enterprise is TOTALLY different from TOS one while keeping it's charateristic details and overall shape, bridge consoles, chairs, corriors are also different due not only to bigger budget but to what 1970's looked (McCoy wears 70's clothes!).
Then came TNG and 1980's where it gave standard of how ships look will look like to 2000's (Designers tried to go outside limitations of so called "Ape Brain" - shoutout to Doug Drexler, and create asthetics that will be not connected to any of curent trends.)
Finally came Enterpise and NASA Punk asthetics, more grouned in reality, yet keeping shapes and technology we know from TOS.
Discovery and SNW went direction of Enterprise and evelove it's technology yet keeping a nods from TOS (shape of captain's chair on Enterprise, shuttles, phasers, tricoders etc.)

I don't see problem in explaining why metal box became cardboard, because designers kept same shape, have bigger budget and look into contemporary art styles.

In any event, it's not the hood of the car that counts, but the engine underneath.

 

[Dukhat]

When the engine is fictitious, I’m not sure that matters.

 

[bryce]

Here's a question I have been meaning to ask:

If, according to this new Diso/SNW aesthetic, Kirks Enterprise in TOS "really" looked like the Discoprise in "Discovery" and "Strange New Worlds"...then what did, according to this new aesthetic, Kirk's *refit* Enterprise "really" look like!?

It wouldn't have that tiny little viewer, but a giant window, right!?

And ditto for the Enterprise-A in the last 2 films...how would THAT bridge "really" look like, according to this new aesthetic!?

Also, Sulu's Excelsior would probably look quite a bit different too...and the Enterprise B....at least the *bridges* would.

If Starfleet Academy ever did a flashback episode to, say, the "The Motion Picture" era or "The Wrath of Khan" era or "The Final Frontier" or "Undiscovered Country" era Constitution Class Enterprise...say in a holodeck simulation...what would the Refit Enterprise bridge from the first 4 films look like with a Discovery/SNW/SA aesthetic?

What would the Enterprise-A bridge from "The Final Frontier" look like!? Or from "The Undiscovered Country"!?

What would the Excelsior or the Enterprise-B bridges look like with that aesthetic added!?

I am NOT an artist...nor can I use rendering software...but I would LOVE to see someone do an "updated" version of the Refit Enterprise to make it *consistent* with the Discovery/SFA design aesthetic.

In my head, I imagine a version of the Refit Enterprise bridge from TMP or TWoK, but now *larger*, with a giant window up front...but the control panels looking *similar*, but a bit "fancier".

Same for the Enterprise-A and the other ships.

I am NOT sure how the exteriors would look (SFA is pretending that the Discovery and SNW aesthetic and the TMP and original cast movie aesthetic both existed...somehow) ...but the SNW Discoprise IS bigger than the original Refit TMP Enterprise...so would the Refit TMP era Enterprise would be larger, with maybe those upper saucer rim windows added. But what about the bridge dome area!? The Discoprise gets rid of that raised...blister...dome...whatever...that sits bellow the main bridge dome on BOTH the TOS and TMP Enterprises....so I imagine the Discoverse version of the Refit Enterprise would lose it too...but that kinda sucks because I like that lounge with the windows...maybe the Refit Discoprise would still have the lounge windows but insted of being 1 deck bellow the bridge, they would now be at the back of the bridge dome (I think that the current SNW Enterprise DOES have windows there ALREADY) but the Refit Discoprise would LOSE the airlock that sits above the lounge on the *original* Refit Enterprise, as there IS no deck above that on the Discoprise. So the front of the Refit Discoprise bridge dome would have that window cut-out and the back would have the lounge windows.

Maybe this "updated aesthetic" Refit Enterprise would KEEP the glowing Bussard collectors, and the nacelles would look closer to how they were originally imagined for "Phase II"

What about the nacelle pylons? Would they still be split? Or be all one piece. (I think the split into double-pylons was added by Drexler to the Discoprise nacelle pylons when they were still gonna be *straight* and not curved TMP/Refit style - because then we could imagine that later as technology changed/improved one of the 2 pylons would be removed, leaving the single skinny TOS nacelle pylons. I always preferred the swept-back angled wing-like nacelle pylons of the refit Enterprise - but I kinda wish that Discovery/SNW had gone with straight rectangular nacelle pylons, because they would have WORKED, and looked GOOD, on the reimagined Enterprise that Drexter designed.)

I would LOVE to see some Trek artists tackle what a Refit Enterprise and Enterprise-A would look like based on the Discovery/Strange New Worlds version of the Enterprise, BLENDING design elements from the TMP Refit Enterprise with the Discovery/SNW Enterprise...and doing the same for the "The Final Frontier" and "The Undiscovered Country" Enterprise-A. (Imagine the TFF Enterprise-A bridge but now LARGER with a BIG WIDE WINDOW replacing the viewer and with a larger Ops/Con station resembling the one in SNW...but maybe NOT that ugly orange-red.)

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I don't know if you're counting Picard as part of the Disco/SNW visual universe, but we did get to see what the Enterprise A exterior looks like:

And if Picard doesn't count, here's what the Enterprise B looks like in Starfleet Academy:

(There's a tiny NX-01 there too as a bonus).

I get that you're more interested in what could be done rather than what has been done, but I don't remember seeing any nice looking Disco-style reimagined bridges in my google searches. Though people love redesigning the exterior of the ships so I'm sure you'll find some of them.

 

[Henoch]

If, according to this new Diso/SNW aesthetic, Kirks Enterprise in TOS "really" looked like the Discoprise in "Discovery" and "Strange New Worlds"...then what did, according to this new aesthetic, Kirk's *refit* Enterprise "really" look like!?

I have a different take; the SNW Enterprise is currently in the WNMHGB configuration, and not in Kirk's TOS configuration, yet. The SNW Enterprise will need a slight refit to bring it into Kirk's 5YM TOS Enterprise (no 'breakable' bridge window, round balls on rear nacelles, reduce quarter sizes in order to double the crew, axe the bar, etc.) YMMV

 

[David cgc]

I don't know if you're counting Picard as part of the Disco/SNW visual universe, but we did get to see what the Enterprise A exterior looks like:

Though, in that case, it was right next to a TOS-style (more or less; I'm still wondering where they got that model, it looked so chunky and late-'90s/early-2000s) Constitution.

I get that you're more interested in what could be done rather than what has been done, but I don't remember seeing any nice looking Disco-style reimagined bridges in my google searches. Though people love redesigning the exterior of the ships so I'm sure you'll find some of them.

I've seen one or two SNW-ized Refits, the most prominent being this one:

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I have a different take; the SNW Enterprise is currently in the WNMHGB configuration, and not in Kirk's TOS configuration, yet. The SNW Enterprise will need a slight refit to bring it into Kirk's 5YM TOS Enterprise (no 'breakable' bridge window, round balls on rear nacelles, reduce quarter sizes in order to double the crew, axe the bar, etc.) YMMV

That was John Eaves' intent; putting the grills on the ends of the nacelles was a late revision when he realized it should evoke the pilot versions of the model based on the timeline, and the "potato-peeler" bonus struts on the nacelles were intended to be removable reinforcement to let those pylons have the proportions of the TOS ship later on. Though the model hasn't actually been revised thus far in any flash-forwards or other depictions when it should look like it would in TOS, and the ship has sailed with the nacelle pylons, since the skew was added to the final version of the design, so removing the extra support wouldn't actually make it more TOS-shaped.

 

[Dukhat]

The problem is that the Discoprise is not going to morph into the TOS version. Because they want you to believe that this was how the ship always looked, inside and out. Of course, this line of thinking is patently absurd, because they didn’t take into account how this would change the ship’s visual history going forward. They expect you to think that this very advanced looking vessel is going to get refit into exactly the same ship we saw in TMP, both interior and exterior. The math doesn’t quite work.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Imagine a "real" Star Trek. What it looks like, we can never know.

TOS, SNW and everything else are adaptations of that "real" universe.

All problems are solved. Everything is filtered through budgets, TV politics etc.

A nightmare for tech heads but... it's how I think it is.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

TOS, SNW and everything else are adaptations of that "real" universe.

I'll meet you halfway. SNW is an adaptation of the real universe, which is TOS. That way everyone's happy!

 

[Phoenix219]

I am NOT sure how the exteriors would look (SFA is pretending that the Discovery and SNW aesthetic and the TMP and original cast movie aesthetic both existed...somehow) ...

As i am not watching the show, but am still curious when it comes to continuity issues, what references does the show make to the TMP/movie era?

 

[Dukhat]

As i am not watching the show, but am still curious when it comes to continuity issues, what references does the show make to the TMP/movie era?

A future alternate universe Pike wears a monster maroon uniform.

The Short Trek ‘Ephraim & Dot’ shows both the Discoprise and the TMP Enterprise at different points in time.

PIC (supposedly in the same continuity as SNW) shows the TMP Constitution class Enterprise-A.

 

[Phoenix219]

A future alternate universe Pike wears a monster maroon uniform.

The Short Trek ‘Ephraim & Dot’ shows both the Discoprise and the TMP Enterprise at different points in time.

PIC (supposedly in the same continuity as SNW) shows the TMP Constitution class Enterprise-A.

Oh. Okay, yeah, I knew some/most of that. I thought I had missed something new from SFA. Something to do with the interior sets or something. I knew about the ships. I'm up to date on everything but SFA.


Picard showed both a TOS model and a Discoprise model in the same series, which is super hard to reconcile. Not even my FC/ENT timeline rewrite theories can reconcile that.

It is easier to believe the movie era can exist with the DSC/SNW aesthetics then to think both TOS and SNW versions can can co-exist.

 

[Ithekro]

It would be interesting to see a TOS Constitution in SNW or "Year One" while also having the Enterprise look like it does in SNW. Like "oh some ships look like that, just not the Enterprise"

 

[Phoenix219]

It would be interesting to see a TOS Constitution in SNW or "Year One" while also having the Enterprise look like it does in SNW. Like "oh some ships look like that, just not the Enterprise"

Lol, and blow up the Enterprise in the finale, and get one of the other style ones re-registered as 1701 for Kirk ahah.

But seeing them coexist is about as likely as seeing TOS, TNG and DSC Klingons all co-existing. It makes sense, but its never going to happen.

 

[Dukhat]

It would be interesting to see a TOS Constitution in SNW…

There’s always possibilities…

or "Year One”

Except here, because Year One isn’t happening.

 

[HotRod]

but the SNW Discoprise IS bigger than the original Refit TMP Enterprise...

Is it? Or was the refit Enterprise roughly the same size as the SNW Enterprise? That would go a long way toward explaining how a massive rec room fits within a two-deck saucer rim, not to mention the cavernous shuttlebay/cargo bay.

It’s also worth pointing out again that the size of the Constitution class had never really been canonically set in stone… at least not until Strange New Worlds.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Is it? Or was the refit Enterprise roughly the same size as the SNW Enterprise? That would go a long way toward explaining how a massive rec room fits within a two-deck saucer rim, not to mention the cavernous shuttlebay/cargo bay.

It’s also worth pointing out again that the size of the Constitution class had never really been canonically set in stone… at least not until Strange New Worlds.

Yeah, if you scale the original ship up compared to something with a definite size....

It certainly seems like the ship has to be larger than we've been told.

 

[DSG2k]

I've seen one or two SNW-ized Refits, the most prominent being this one:

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That's remarkably faithful to the original. Not bad.

It certainly seems like the ship has to be larger than we've been told.

They scaled up the Discoprise intentionally from the canonical 289 meters to the new 442 because they'd made everything else huge already, e.g. the Discovery being Sovereign-esque in length.

Refitting 289–>305 makes sense. 442–>305 does not. And yes, I am aware of the campaigns to embiggen (but curiously never ensmallen) everything if a set/model builder or matte painter doesn't get everything perfect. Such ideas can be a fun diversion but shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[HotRod]

Yeah, if you scale the original ship up compared to something with a definite size....

It certainly seems like the ship has to be larger than we've been told.

This scale finally fixes the hierarchy. Voyager is a sleek, modern scout, but the Constitution-class is a heavy cruiser. It should be the more massive vessel. Seeing them side-by-side like this really highlights why the Constitution was always considered the gold standard of the fleet.