Ride or Die: Defend Your Favorite "Bad" Episodes

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Of the roads to promotion, taking a standardized test with the resulting paperwork, reviewboard, commanding officer scrutiny, etc., whatever is needed, is an established pathway. Achieving great things in the field isn't as quantifiable as a standardized test.

Think of it as the difference between completing school by moving through the grades and acquiring an equivalency certificate, loosely (not a perfect analogy)

 

[Dropship]

I've just remembered another episode i feel uncomfortable with, it's the one where Picard is told to find out why a fellow starship captain (he played the warden in Shawshank) destroyed a (Cardassian?) freighter even though they weren't at war.
The captain's excuse was that he strongly suspected the ship was violating a treaty by transporting weapons to somewhere.
But to preserve the fragile peace, Picard washes his hands of the matter and doesn't look into it any further, and let's Star Fleet deal with him.
However, Picard admits at the end that the freighter was almost certainly carrying arms.
My beef is that Picard threw the captain under the bus rather than stand by him and investigate his claims..

 

[Mojochi]

On paper I wouldn't want Picard flying the ship either - his training isn't aligned with that

Oh no no no. I couldn't let this go. Picard single handedly pilots the ship on 2 thrusters alone, in Booby Trap, & surprised everyone with some deft maneuvering to boot, & also takes the helm in the finale of Yesterday's Enterprise. That guy is top notch on a ship & I'll hear nothing to the contrary

My main issue with Troi in Thine Own Self is that if it's a test of metal, to see if someone has the character to order a person to die, and furthermore realize it when it matters, then she didn't do that! Riker held her hand & then gave her a wink wink clue to get her there. The episode itself manages to be quite good & entertaining though despite that

 

[Oddish]

My main issue with Troi in Thine Own Self is that if it's a test of metal, to see if someone has the character to order a person to die, and furthermore realize it when it matters, then she didn't do that!

Agreed. It was a perfect test, but it was a test of character, not a test of skill or knowledge.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Here's something to show just how BS that storyline was...

DATA: Saves Earth from assimilation by the Borg by using Picard to hack the collective.
- Ends Romulan involvement in the Klingon civil war, preventing a Duras-Romulan alliance that threatens the Federation.
- As acting first officer, aids a visiting captain in stopping a Cardassian incursion.
RESULT: Still a lieutenant commander.

DEANNA: Takes a dozen tries to kill a hologram of Geordi LaForge.
RESULT: Promoted to commander.

That's because Data could never bring himself to kill his best friend Geordi.

 

[Mojochi]

I've just remembered another episode i feel uncomfortable with, it's the one where Picard is told to find out why a fellow starship captain (he played the warden in Shawshank) destroyed a (Cardassian?) freighter even though they weren't at war.
The captain's excuse was that he strongly suspected the ship was violating a treaty by transporting weapons to somewhere.
But to preserve the fragile peace, Picard washes his hands of the matter and doesn't look into it any further, and let's Star Fleet deal with him.
However, Picard admits at the end that the freighter was almost certainly carrying arms.
My beef is that Picard threw the captain under the bus rather than stand by him and investigate his claims..

To be fair, that other captain (Ben Maxwell) was wholesale slaughtering ships he suspected of arms trafficking, a total of like 650 people, who never actually engaged him, as though they were still operating under wartime rules of engagement, and he planned to continue to do so, regardless the consequences.

He may have been correct in his assertions, but he was in no way validated in his actions. He had to be brought in for legit crimes, & for violations that could've brought about war, if left unchecked, despite what chicanery the Cardassians were actually up to.

 

[Mojochi]

Of the roads to promotion, taking a standardized test with the resulting paperwork, reviewboard, commanding officer scrutiny, etc., whatever is needed, is an established pathway. Achieving great things in the field isn't as quantifiable as a standardized test.

Think of it as the difference between completing school by moving through the grades and acquiring an equivalency certificate, loosely (not a perfect analogy)

The thing is, in order to hold the post of 2nd officer, Data would surely have already taken that same test. They're calling it the "bridge officers test". It might even be a prerequisite for every rank, down to lowly Ensigns. They too are in fact officers on the bridge, who may find themselves the only ranking person left alive there, among other ensigns. Worf would have done it, Yar, Laforge, Maybe even acting ensign Wesley. (Who even got put in charge of a team of higher ranking officers, at one point)

I have to assume it's a fundamental qualification, in order to be up there at all, and until then, Troi was really just a visitor to the bridge, there at Picard's preference, & that's iffy on his part IMHO, not too dissimilarly from him having Wes up there, before he was an acting ensign.

As fun as Disaster was, it really did a lot to undercut Troi's qualifications. Until then, I'd have never even guessed she was so underqualified to be up there. Don't even know the emergency protocols? That seems like very rudimental stuff, that you shouldn't even have access to that area, without knowing. The new ensign & the noncom even know that stuff (granted, they both have experience beyond their ranks)

They really botched Troi the most IMHO, even worse than Riker's will he/won't he become a captain stuff. It really made her look like a tourist up there, after years of being there, & that bridge officers test was a Hail Mary pass, that tried to course correct her without too much kerfuffle, after the fact, but even that came off janky imho, especially when now it seems like Data answers to her, in some nondescript, outranked way... which is ridiculous. (Glad that never came up again)

 

[Oddish]

That's because Data could never bring himself to kill his best friend Geordi.

Data would have made the repairs himself, and survived.

On a related subject, if someone gave me an order to effectively kill myself the way Deanna did to Geordi, there's a better than average chance I'd laugh in her face and say "and what if I don't, lady? You court-martial me?"

 

[Mojochi]

On a related subject, if someone gave me an order to effectively kill myself the way Deanna did to Geordi, there's a better than average chance I'd laugh in her face and say "and what if I don't, lady? You court-martial me?"

No. You die anyway, but also get 1000 people killed with you, because you wouldn't help them. So, they all die, in part, because of you... Or you make them order someone else to die, in your place, who, in this case, may be less competent to the task, so there's a greater chance all will still die, and if not, they DO die, because you decided it should be them & not you... in which case, yeah, you probably get a perfunctory court-martial, and also, no one ever wants to serve with you again, because they really can't count on you, when the chips are down

That's the thing about service. It really isn't service unless you're willing to serve others before you... The doing of such being rather noble & sacrificial.

 

[Oddish]

^ My point is that if you asked me to sacrifice myself to save 1000 lives, I probably would. But if you snarled at me to do it and said "that's an order", I'd probably laugh my rear end off because ordering a person to kill themself is just ridiculous when you can't exactly punish them for disobeying.

 

[Mojochi]

^ My point is that if you asked me to sacrifice myself to save 1000 lives, I probably would. But if you snarled at me to do it and said "that's an order", I'd probably laugh my rear end off because ordering a person to kill themself is just ridiculous when you can't exactly punish them for disobeying.

You can, if you both live, whether that punishment is of any real substance, compared to death, is a matter for personal perspective.

I'm not going to deny that her specific order, presented then, was rather laughably put lol, but ordering people to their death has definitely happened, and in those cases, it wasn't ridiculous at all. That's why they have those ranks. Hell, in the old times, refusal just got you executed on the spot for cowardice anyhow.

However, if today I was in command & said, "Lieutenant, I've got to order you to go in there, knowing you won't come back, or we lose everybody" that's still an order. Do with it or consider it what you will.

 

[Some Sort of Lemur]

I find it really strange the whole bridge officer test thing was Ron Moore’s idea, given that he was the one who tended to push Trek most towards military SF. It’s also kind of funny that the resolution to the bridge officer’s test is basically to follow Ro’s line of thinking in “Disaster” (really she should have been in command with the plot being her having to get over the lingering distrust of the bridge crew with Troi’s help).

***

Anyway I am not really a fan of TNG’s early seasons but I’ll stand up for “Encounter of Farpoint.” What might come as arrogance from Picard in other context reads as resolve when he’s facing Q (and frankly I’m feeling like Q has a pretty good case in his prosecution of humanity lately), Troi’s big emoting makes sense given she’s conveying the feelings of beings three times the size of the Enterprise, and I am a sucker for all the ship operation play-by-play stuff.

 

[Dropship]

^ My point is that if you asked me to sacrifice myself to save 1000 lives, I probably would. But if you snarled at me to do it and said "that's an order", I'd probably laugh my rear end off because ordering a person to kill themself is just ridiculous when you can't exactly punish them for disobeying.

Incidentally in the film 'Alien Hunter' the 'sacrifice your own life' dilemma came up, I won't give away the ending but suffice it to say some of the team were all for sacrificng themselves to save the world, but others were violently opposed to the idea.

 

[fireproof78]

Rascals: it's very interesting twist to the weekly transformation. While I don't like the Ferengi taking over the ENTERPRISE-D so easily, I do appreciate the reverse of the twist of underestimating your opponent leading to their defeat. It's quirky and fun in that regard. And Guinan and Ro's heart to heart about childhood.

Unfortunately, it has the whole "O'Brien must suffer trope," which I hate.

 

[Oddish]

Unfortunately, it has the whole "O'Brien must suffer trope," which I hate.

I'm not wild about it either, though at least Colm Meaney was really good at selling it.

VOY tried to follow in their footsteps with Harry, and it was no less annoying.

 

[somebuddyX]

I've never hated "Code of Honor" nor thought it was intentionally racist, it just suffers because it's the only planet of black people in the galaxy apparently. The first draft had them as lizard people, so I like to imagine them as those lizards from "Lonely Among Us." The white monoculture in "Justice" is just as dumb. They should have been lizard people too, or cats or whatever the fuck. Season 1 had some great ideas that were diluted to nonsense.

 

[Oddish]

I don't think Code of Honor was meant to be racist, someone just had the idea of a planet where everyone was black. And, by unfortunate bad luck, they made a bad episode set on that planet.

The best way to describe Code of Honor (and some other Trek episodes) is "what were they thinking?!"

 

[Mojochi]

I don't think Code of Honor was meant to be racist, someone just had the idea of a planet where everyone was black. And, by unfortunate bad luck, they made a bad episode set on that planet.

The best way to describe Code of Honor (and some other Trek episodes) is "what were they thinking?!"

And the answer is, "about everything else but the obvious". I feel the same goes for Justice. They're a case of a team of creatives just ignorantly having never even bothered to think about an issue, that more than likely never personally affected them. The closed creator loop just had no one, during the development stages, who was objectivity minded enough to say... "Whoa.... Wait a minute y'all. WTF are we doing right now, guys?"

The script & story weren't particularly or noticably racist. The actors' portrayals weren't especially racist. The notion to cast people of similar ethnicity, being from the same society (or even families) in itself isn't grossly racist either. That these people developed antagonistically, thru the course of events, isn't even racist, on its own. However A+B+C+D = Holy sh*t! That's blatantly racist looking... and no one around there was even thinking to do that arithmetic, (in ways we're way more aware of doing today)

 

[Starflight]

Code of Honor is literally the only time TNG takes pre-warp people seriously, and one of the only episodes to properly deconstruct Picard's sneering paternalism. The criticisms make no sense to me. Lhutan is a genuine threat who runs circles around Picard for the first half of the episode.

I think people get hung up on the optics of a black actor playing an alien who abducts a white female officer... but the entire plot is that the reason he abducts Yar is not out of crazed love (which is what he lets the Enterprise crew think, knowing they'll fall for it because they haughtily view him and his people as backward), but rather because he saw her combat skills in action and knew he could engineer a situation in which she legally kills Yareena, and Yareena's lands thus pass to him.

On top of all that, it's got some great TOS-like acting. "There will be NO treaty. NO VACCINE!"

 

[ThankQ]

I don't think Code of Honor was meant to be racist,

Racism doesn't require racist intent. That's one of the big problems of the last 50 years. People will say and even think they're not racist because they don't join racist groups or do other overtly racist things.

More often than not, when someone says, "I'm not racist, I just think that..." that person is about to something racist. Being a racist doesn't require self-awareness.