What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Tallguy]

Secondly, HOW WAS IGNITING THE FUEL NOT LOGICAL. It literally gave the Enterprise the signal needed to rescue them. It was surpassingly logical, it was T'Pau-tier logic. He should have been given the Vulcan Medal of Supreme Logic for that, while Kirk should have been handed the Unbelievable Dunce Clown Award.

Because by igniting the fuel, which logically nobody should have been able to see, they went from a slight chance of surviving returning from orbit to zero chance of surviving their orbit.

Even when he did it Scott and McCoy knew he was making a nearly impossible gamble. One that if it hadn't worked out there would have been no return from.

One could argue that their chances of surviving on the surface were slim. But really, there had to be places on the ENTIRE PLANET where the natives were not. And they would have been landing someplace other than were they had left from. (Where they had not pissed off the natives.)

But we also know they would have been stuck there. OTOH knowing our Brave and Heroic Captain, once he dropped off the medical supplies he would have returned and continued the search.

I'm not saying everything would have worked out OK. It probably wouldn't have. But once Spock ignited the fuel they were dead.

 

[Farscape One]

Because by igniting the fuel, which logically nobody should have been able to see, they went from a slight chance of surviving returning from orbit to zero chance of surviving their orbit.

Even when he did it Scott and McCoy knew he was making a nearly impossible gamble. One that if it hadn't worked out there would have been no return from.

One could argue that their chances of surviving on the surface were slim. But really, there had to be places on the ENTIRE PLANET where the natives were not. And they would have been landing someplace other than were they had left from. (Where they had not pissed off the natives.)

But we also know they would have been stuck there. OTOH knowing our Brave and Heroic Captain, once he dropped off the medical supplies he would have returned and continued the search.

I'm not saying everything would have worked out OK. It probably wouldn't have. But once Spock ignited the fuel they were dead.

Regarding Kirk going back to search for his crew if he left, dropped off the supplies, and came back to search...

Might want to remind Kirk he should do exactly that for the two guards he left on Triacus at the end of "AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD".

(The episode ends with him having them drop off the kids at a starbase instead of going back to get his crew. It made Kirk look like he didn't care about his crew. It's the final insult of a terrible episode.)

 

[camdudetenger2018]

i do not know if this is controversial but

what is also controversial is all the star trek tv shows and movies not having buttloads of different nominations for many catagorys at the upper class style awards shows like the emmys the oscars and the golden globes for nominations like best tv show best picture best actor and actress best supporting actor and actress and best director

 

[Farscape One]

Certainly enough episodes and performances would qualify.

 

[Tallguy]

We live in a world where Genevieve O'Reilly wasn't nominated for Andor. I care not for your Treks among the Stars.

 

[Shawnster]

Zetar is great for me because of the creative use of the set and props in creating Memory Alpha.

I also like Zetar for what was revealed here in the myriad of discussions we've had about the Delta and other patches in TOS. Memory Alpha staff wore the Delta. Now, I know all the real world reasons we discussed, but I like the hand waive or retcon that the Delta was not unique to the Enterprise but could be viewed as a specific division of Starfleet (like UESPA)

At least that's my head canon

 

[The Salt Umpire]

Because by igniting the fuel, which logically nobody should have been able to see, they went from a slight chance of surviving returning from orbit to zero chance of surviving their orbit.

Even when he did it Scott and McCoy knew he was making a nearly impossible gamble. One that if it hadn't worked out there would have been no return from.

One could argue that their chances of surviving on the surface were slim. But really, there had to be places on the ENTIRE PLANET where the natives were not. And they would have been landing someplace other than were they had left from. (Where they had not pissed off the natives.)

But we also know they would have been stuck there. OTOH knowing our Brave and Heroic Captain, once he dropped off the medical supplies he would have returned and continued the search.

I'm not saying everything would have worked out OK. It probably wouldn't have. But once Spock ignited the fuel they were dead.

well, at least if he beamed down supplies, they'd get twice as much!
Scotty just needed to take off the 2xBarlow off the AE35 unit and all would have been well.

 

[fireproof78]

i do not know if this is controversial but

what is also controversial is all the star trek tv shows and movies not having buttloads of different nominations for many catagorys at the upper class style awards shows like the emmys the oscars and the golden globes for nominations like best tv show best picture best actor and actress best supporting actor and actress and best director

Controversial opinion: fuck the award shows and their meaningless prattle.

 

[FormerLurker]

Regarding Kirk going back to search for his crew if he left, dropped off the supplies, and came back to search...

Might want to remind Kirk he should do exactly that for the two guards he left on Triacus at the end of "AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD".

(The episode ends with him having them drop off the kids at a starbase instead of going back to get his crew. It made Kirk look like he didn't care about his crew. It's the final insult of a terrible episode.)

But he didn't leave two guards on Triacus, except accidentally. What he did delibverately (though without realizing it) is beam two guards into space while at warp. That's gonna take some explanation.

 

[I am not Herbert]

I always want to smack Kirk at the end of "Galileo Seven".

"I see. You mean you reasoned that it was time for an emotional outburst."

Firstly, stop laughing you bastard, you've lost like three crewmembers. Secondly, HOW WAS IGNITING THE FUEL NOT LOGICAL. It literally gave the Enterprise the signal needed to rescue them. It was surpassingly logical, it was T'Pau-tier logic. He should have been given the Vulcan Medal of Supreme Logic for that, while Kirk should have been handed the Unbelievable Dunce Clown Award.

Agreed. I just watched that episode on Pluto last week and the whole emotional outburst bothered me quite a bit. It was out of the box thinking, I suppose, but that does not make it the slightest bit illogical. It was born of a cool-headed appreciation of impending death and a need to work within the limits of that impending death. That's Socrates and Marcus Aurelius territory

But they had to put a laughing-bridge button on a bloodbath of the episode and didn't have the sex appeal of The Apple or the drug frenzy of By Any Other Name to cleanse the palate, so I guess they had to force things a bit

Still like the ep, though. I think the 3rd I ever saw

 

[Christopher]

But he didn't leave two guards on Triacus, except accidentally.

I think that's the point, that they were left behind when the Enterprise warped out. The word "left" doesn't require deliberate intent; it can result from negligence as well, like "Dang, I left my reading glasses at home."

What he did delibverately (though without realizing it) is beam two guards into space while at warp. That's gonna take some explanation.

Those guards' lives could've been spared if he'd tried to contact the guards on the surface for a report before beaming down their replacements. Also, it shouldn't have been possible to beam them down at all, since the transporter would've been set to lock onto the landing site on the surface, so there should've been a "target not found" error message and the transport shouldn't have worked at all. You'd think the default first step in the transporting process would be for the transporter to scan the destination and confirm that it's actually there. (Well, according to the TNG Technical Manual, it's step 14, but that's out of 58 steps, so it's pretty early in the process.)

 

[Some Sort of Lemur]

what is also controversial is all the star trek tv shows and movies not having buttloads of different nominations for many catagorys at the upper class style awards shows like the emmys the oscars and the golden globes for nominations like best tv show

“All Good Things” was nominated for the Emmy for best dramatic presentation, and I think the fact that (even past having a core nerd audience) TNG is better-remembered than winner Picket Fences says something to the quality of TNG, and I think there are DS9 episodes that are up there too (and iirc the TV Guide article on DS9’s finale basically said the series was overlooked critically).

That said I think, even beyond science fiction and Trek specifically having a stigma in the industry at the time, I think it’s hard to compare to mainstream dramas of the time because it operates on a different scale—often the characters are going through more abstract challenges, even when it’s playing a very relatable emotional chord (e.g. the relationship between father and son in “The Visitor”). It’s a different style of writing and performance.

Now we have television that does regularly work more with abstract ideas (even in mainstream drama), greater acceptance of science fiction (even if it’s still siloed a bit, as with Andor), and just an upped game at the top levels of television drama sophistication generally. I do not think contemporary Trek is interested in playing in that area, though, both for business reasons (Trek doesn’t have Star Wars’s starting fanbase or Apple’s money, and the Andor/Pluribus audience is a niche within a niche), because I just don’t think it’s their inclination, and because it would probably be impossible to assure any potential writers that they’d have the requisite freedom to write at the Gilroy/Gilligan level.

 

[Set Harth]

We live in a world where Genevieve O'Reilly wasn't nominated for Andor. I care not for your Treks among the Stars.

 

[Shawnster]

Also, it shouldn't have been possible to beam them down at all, since the transporter would've been set to lock onto the landing site on the surface, so there should've been a "target not found" error message and the transport shouldn't have worked at all. You'd think the default first step in the transporting process would be for the transporter to scan the destination and confirm that it's actually there. (Well, according to the TNG Technical Manual, it's step 14, but that's out of 58 steps, so it's pretty early in the process.)

There likely was a warning message to that affect. Illusion and hallucination can cause the transporter operator to override and disable any security failsafes.

 

[Christopher]

There likely was a warning message to that affect. Illusion and hallucination can cause the transporter operator to override and disable any security failsafes.

I suppose so, but it still seemed ridiculous that Kirk didn't contact the active team on the surface first for a status report before swapping in their replacements. The whole scene was just contrived to get two random guards killed for the sake of a moment of shock value, and then it was forgotten.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

“All Good Things” was nominated for the Emmy for best dramatic presentation, and I think the fact that (even past having a core nerd audience) TNG is better-remembered than winner Picket Fences says something to the quality of TNG, and I think there are DS9 episodes that are up there too (and iirc the TV Guide article on DS9’s finale basically said the series was overlooked critically).

That said I think, even beyond science fiction and Trek specifically having a stigma in the industry at the time, I think it’s hard to compare to mainstream dramas of the time because it operates on a different scale—often the characters are going through more abstract challenges, even when it’s playing a very relatable emotional chord (e.g. the relationship between father and son in “The Visitor”). It’s a different style of writing and performance.

Now we have television that does regularly work more with abstract ideas (even in mainstream drama), greater acceptance of science fiction (even if it’s still siloed a bit, as with Andor), and just an upped game at the top levels of television drama sophistication generally. I do not think contemporary Trek is interested in playing in that area, though, both for business reasons (Trek doesn’t have Star Wars’s starting fanbase or Apple’s money, and the Andor/Pluribus audience is a niche within a niche), because I just don’t think it’s their inclination, and because it would probably be impossible to assure any potential writers that they’d have the requisite freedom to write at the Gilroy/Gilligan level.

oh ok

 

[FormerLurker]

I suppose so, but it still seemed ridiculous that Kirk didn't contact the active team on the surface first for a status report before swapping in their replacements. The whole scene was just contrived to get two random guards killed for the sake of a moment of shock value, and then it was forgotten.

We were probably not shown the hallucination that contact had been made precisely for that shock value. Kirk and Spock broke free from it when they didn't get the other guards to materialize, and then the hallucination fell apart afterward, but showing that would have, at best, confused the audience, and would have probably been seen as a cheat. To keep the shock without the cheat, they left it out.

 

[Christopher]

We were probably not shown the hallucination that contact had been made precisely for that shock value. Kirk and Spock broke free from it when they didn't get the other guards to materialize, and then the hallucination fell apart afterward, but showing that would have, at best, confused the audience, and would have probably been seen as a cheat. To keep the shock without the cheat, they left it out.

That's bending over backward to excuse bad writing.

 

[FormerLurker]

Not by me.

 

[Tallguy]

That's bending over backward to excuse bad writing.

There was a magic evil space angel that made them believe whatever it wanted and it killed two people because of hallucinations. The episode has many faults but are you suggesting that additional scenes showing that the angel was circumventing otherwise carefully followed standard safety protocols would have improved its credibility?

Surely when Sulu was hallucinating space knives he should have double checked other instruments that could have shown him that the viewer was malfunctioning. They have those redundancies for a reason, mister.