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Undiscovered Country Anomolies

I'm glad the C-IN-C was polite enough to kind of state the obvious to whoever this Captain was.
And in a tone that firmly suggested "But that's not really what we're here for now, is it?"

While Star Trek fans may go back and forth about "Is Starfleet a military?" Meyer's answer is "Of course it is. AND NOTHING ELSE." He has stated on more than one occasion that Star Trek is "gunboat diplomacy".

Even if you take that (incorrect) POV, the Klingon Empire isn't the only galactic-political opponent that the Starfleet faces. But that would muddy the waters too much. Even in real life when the Cold War ended and the Soviet Union collapsed the U.S. military downsized (for a bit) but certainly was not dismantled.

While I love The Wrath of Khan and enjoy The Undiscovered Country, I find Meyer's views here distasteful.

BUT: If you're going to do this story, then having Cartwright from The Voyage Home be the ringleader on the Federation side is the only way to go. You can't have a warmongering conspiratorial Starfleet while keeping all of the "important" people above the fray.

Which is why it should have been Saavik.

Of course this again asks the Star Trek III question: Why is James Kirk part of this ridiculous organization? "They conspired with us to assassinate their own Chancellor. How trustworthy can they be?" Likewise, I'm sure.
 
I despise the whole evil admirals plot. (The books did it at LEAST twice before.) I think it reflects on the film maker's view of any military which is probably also why there are so many fans who push back so passionately on Starfleet even BEING a military. (And we will not discuss their unprofound wisdom at these proceedings.)

It has the virtue, in this case, of being partly inspired by the real-life Iran-Contra affair, hence "Colonel West" as a Lt. Col. North stand-in.

Which is why it should have been Saavik.

I think it works better for the traitor to be a young radical (even if she might be a recently-promoted lieutenant commander), echoing the Reaganites of the late 80s. Saavik would by this point be seasoned by a decade of life after TWOK.

It's also better, I think, for Kirk's pain over the death of his son to be his own. Valeris doesn't really understand, but Saavik not only would, but would have her own, more visceral perspective on the murder.
 
It has the virtue, in this case, of being partly inspired by the real-life Iran-Contra affair, hence "Colonel West" as a Lt. Col. North stand-in.
At no point, by the worst interpretation, was North (West) trying to start a war so that he would still have a job.

Kirk: Who is "us"?
Valeris: Everyone who stands to lose from peace.

What a contemptible line.
 
It has the virtue, in this case, of being partly inspired by the real-life Iran-Contra affair, hence "Colonel West" as a Lt. Col. North stand-in.
Yes. The very on-the-nose Colonel West who is later part of the Scooby-Doo unmasking. Subtlety ain't Meyer's strong suit.
 
1. The Excelsior is "headed home under full impulse power?" This seems weird given that it would likely take hundreds of years for the starship to return to Earth from out near the Klingon Empire. Maybe "home" for the Excelsior is a nearby starbase, and not Earth Spacedock....?

Agreed with this point - but if the ship had been at warp, then the shockwave would not have hit - so 'plot armour'. Maybe they were just rebalancing the warp core or some such thing, we can hand wave that away?

2. In a similar fashion, the Enterprise never seems to go to Warp to get to the Kronos One rendezvous, and they do not use Warp drive during their escort journey to the peace conference on Earth. I guess the Enterprise could have warped to a certain sector, and then throttled down to impulse to await the Chancellor's arrival, but the two ships being on impulse going to Earth makes no sense.

I guessed they were proceeding at impulse to allow for the formal dinner and to allow for an arrival at Khitomer at the correct time - when everything was ready. It was all rushed.

3. I don't really understand how the advanced sensors of the Enterprise (and presumably Kronos One) don't see a photon torpedo being fired from a cloaked position below the Enterprise. Even with today's technology, I'd think that would be a very easy thing to prove out. Also, no sensors or forensic analysis could show that the Enterprise torpedo bay had not launched torpedoes?

Valeris was in on it and likely had easy access to all the necessary systems to alter logs etc...Ultimately, in the confusion of the event itself, it appeared that Enterprise fired. I guess they could have had a scene where they analysed the trajectory using some sensor logs. But in real life, submarine torpedoes are very hard to detect now, let alone trace to an origin point. Maybe the photon torpedoe is similarly hard to detect.

4. We've repeatedly seen that the transporter keeps logs and patterns of everyone who goes through it. Would it not have been a very simple matter to see that Burke and Samno were the assassins? Maybe they "erased" the data, similar to altering the torpedo inventory databanks?

Valeris was in on it and likely had easy access to all the necessary systems to alter logs. It must have been well planned with help from Starfleet officers - I mean the BOP must have been carrying Federation torpedoes for a start.

5. I actually get very confused about Valeris going to sickbay to murder Burke and Samno. Why would the entire sickbay facility be dark and unstaffed, especially if there are two critical patients in there? Even so, would Valeris not want to scan the room before going in there with a drawn phaser to kill two crewmen to ensure there was nobody that would witness her?

I know she's a Vulcan, but maybe she just acted it out in the moment and did not stop to consider things. In her rush to cover up. Valeris could have scanned the room and she would have detected two people.

6. The Khitomer Peace Conference seems to have absolutely no security. No vessels in orbit from either government (although supposedly all of the delegates arrived somehow)? No internal security watching obvious vantage points for snipers? The Klingon dude / Colonel West somehow gets into the building holding a briefcase that contains a sniper rifle? It all seems very loose for such a tense and critical situation.

Someone managed to take a shot at Trump, despite security. Maybe the conference is held in an isolated area and guests are screened? As for no other ships in orbit, this is a problem with newer Star Trek shows. In TOS and in the movies, we see far fewer ships than in later shows. In TMP, Enterprise is the only ship in range of earth.

7. The Morska listening post sensors can't tell the difference between a Constitution-class Federation starship and a freighter? I'd think even today's tech is better than that. Maybe the Klingons were just too drunk?

This is surely a parallel to Soviet Russia, with it's outdated technology and unmotivated officers? and crumbling infrastructure.
 
3. I don't really understand how the advanced sensors of the Enterprise (and presumably Kronos One) don't see a photon torpedo being fired from a cloaked position below the Enterprise. Even with today's technology, I'd think that would be a very easy thing to prove out. Also, no sensors or forensic analysis could show that the Enterprise torpedo bay had not launched torpedoes?

Valeris was in on it and likely had easy access to all the necessary systems to alter logs etc...Ultimately, in the confusion of the event itself, it appeared that Enterprise fired. I guess they could have had a scene where they analysed the trajectory using some sensor logs. But in real life, submarine torpedoes are very hard to detect now, let alone trace to an origin point. Maybe the photon torpedoe is similarly hard to detect.
The problem I have with this is that the Enterprise has video footage of the incident they can review from their point of view. Surely Kronos One would have something similar? Is there not footage that would visually confirm where the torpedoes came from?
 
The problem I have with this is that the Enterprise has video footage of the incident they can review from their point of view. Surely Kronos One would have something similar? Is there not footage that would visually confirm where the torpedoes came from?
Chang was on Kronos One and likely emininently capable of altering or destroying the sensor logs, and could plausibly claim they'd been corrupted or lost by the dual torpedo impacts.
 
Chang was on Kronos One and likely emininently capable of altering or destroying the sensor logs, and could plausibly claim they'd been corrupted or lost by the dual torpedo impacts.
Also, why review the obvious? (I can see Klingons jumping to conclusions, and not wanting to review things). There were no other ships in range.
 
In TMP, Enterprise is the only ship in range of earth.
"The only starship in interception range is the Enterprise," sez Kirk. Not just a "ship" or "Star Fleet ship," but "starship" which were a rare breed in TOS, and presumably that carried over to the movie. V'ger swatted a "light cruiser" called the Aswan in several drafts of the torturously rewritten script. One can argue that's why Kirk said "starship."
 
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Most offensive than what's already been discussed is how Uhura is portrayed when communicating with the Klingons. She would be able to speak Klingon almost as well as a native speaker with her experience.
 
In STID she does.
I don't mind Uhura being Super Linguist. But I'm also OK if she's not. (Every once in a while I realize how much my "ideal TOS crew" comes from Diane Duane.) I would prefer, nay insist that she is Kirk / Spock / Scotty levels of competent at being a communications officer.

But TUC made her look dumb. And it made the underlings around her look like they knew better and Uhura was screwing it up. The comedy was at Uhura's expense. That's what made it bad.
 
Most offensive than what's already been discussed is how Uhura is portrayed when communicating with the Klingons. She would be able to speak Klingon almost as well as a native speaker with her experience.
Why? How does being the communications officer imply some mastery of alien languages, particularly in an age when there is a universal translator to bridge the language barrier? When did we ever see evidence, pre-Abramsverse, of Uhura having knowledge of alien languages?
 
Why? How does being the communications officer imply some mastery of alien languages, particularly in an age when there is a universal translator to bridge the language barrier? When did we ever see evidence, pre-Abramsverse, of Uhura having knowledge of alien languages?
If this were a species other than Klingon, I'd agree that your argument is valid. However, the Klingon Empire was one of the primary threats to the Federation for decades. It's highly illogical to assume that the flagship's communications officer, along with all of the others in Starfleet, wouldn't have at least a strong working knowledge of Klingonese. If you factor in Enterprise (which I don't) it makes even less sense.
 
If this were a species other than Klingon, I'd agree that your argument is valid. However, the Klingon Empire was one of the primary threats to the Federation for decades. It's highly illogical to assume that the flagship's communications officer, along with all of the others in Starfleet, wouldn't have at least a strong working knowledge of Klingonese. If you factor in Enterprise (which I don't) it makes even less sense.
Okay, that's fair.

Either way, I agree the scene makes absolutely no sense. It's one of those things that Harve Bennett would have stepped in to stop if he had still been producting. That's why I think the team of Bennett and Meyer in TWOK was far more effective than Meyer alone in TUC.
 
Meyer may be one of several directors I can think of who work best when they have someone tugging back at some of their more dubious impulses. Also see Peter Jackson and Stephen Sommers and perhaps Baz Luhrmann.
 
One bit that stuck out to me was when Spock proposes dismantling the Klingon neutral zone, this exchange happens:

MILITARY AIDE: Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?
C-IN-C: Well, I'm sure that our exploration and scientific programs would be unaffected, Captain, but...

lol, wut? I'm glad the C-IN-C was polite enough to kind of state the obvious to whoever this Captain was.
That is another line that makes no sense. Agree.
 
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