Your honest opinion on the Berman era

[CaseyW]

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate your thoughts. I think for now I will just take a little time between The End of an Era (I have watched of listened to one Star Trek or another most nights for the last few years — partly for entertainment and partly to distract my thoughts and help me get to sleep) and the possible beginning of another. I’ll let your perspectives settle in my brain, and I thank you for not getting into all of the likes and dislikes you have so that I can go into the new series more or less fresh. I’m grateful to all of the folk who worked together to make these series, and to you folk for keeping this bulletin board going for so long. It’s amazing to finally have people who can answer my ST questions!

Good night.

 

[Farscape One]

Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate your thoughts. I think for now I will just take a little time between The End of an Era (I have watched of listened to one Star Trek or another most nights for the last few years — partly for entertainment and partly to distract my thoughts and help me get to sleep) and the possible beginning of another. I’ll let your perspectives settle in my brain, and I thank you for not getting into all of the likes and dislikes you have so that I can go into the new series more or less fresh. I’m grateful to all of the folk who worked together to make these series, and to you folk for keeping this bulletin board going for so long. It’s amazing to finally have people who can answer my ST questions!

Good night.

You're very welcome!

Always happy to provide honest feedback and views of the various shows in the franchise.

 

[Lord Garth]

I changed my vote from "I like two or three of these shows" to "I love the era". Even though I don't love every show, I love the idea of what I think of as good-hearted science-fiction. Somewhere in each of these shows there is a desire to act from a principled stand, to be generous and compassionate with other life forms and cultures, to be curious and want to learn and form new bonds. It doesn't shine all the time but it's in there, along with some joyful humour, and that's what keeps me coming back. For me, Voyager succeeds the most in this and over time I have pretty much fallen in love with Captain Janeaway.

Now that Netflix has lost rights to the franchise I am considering getting a subscription to Paramount and watching some of the younger series. However, when J J Abrams came out with the first Star Trek movie, post purchase, I was extremely disappointed in it. It seemed to me that it had lost that heart, that central core, and had become just another good-versus-evil shoot 'em up bang bang, in which I have no interest at all. I was also very irritated by the change of established personalities of the people involved, especially Spock. (Although I haven't seen it since it came out so I can't remember any more detail than that.) I am curious to know which of the later series you might recommend as still holding that old theme.

I like DSC and PIC. PRO as well if I'm in the mood for it. So, as you can probably guess from that, I don't neatly fit into any category. But, in terms of how much I think these series are like the ones from the Berman Era:

The first three seasons of Discovery don't feel like the Berman Era. The fourth season of Discovery wants to be like the Roddenberry Era. Meaning TMP and Early-TNG. The fifth season of Discovery feels a lot more like the Berman Era. Then it ended.

Picard continues the storylines of the Berman Era, but it doesn't actually feel like the Berman Era. Though I'd say the second and third seasons channel the TOS Movies. Especially the third season.

I can understand why people say SNW Season 1 feels like the Berman Era. I can see it. Even though I believe Rick Berman would've had the TOS Timeframe presented the same as it was depicted in TNG, DS9, and ENT, in other words: pretty much like TOS, except with the most minor of embellishments. From my point-of-view, SNW seems less and less like the Berman Era afterwards. I haven't seen any of the third season, but I've kept tabs, and I don't think half of a season in the Berman Era would've been comedy episodes.

Lower Decks isn't a show Rick Berman would've done but if they made an adult cartoon out of Star Trek in the late-'90s or early-2000s, I think that could've easily been LD. American adult cartoons aren't my thing; I'm honestly not into them. But, if you are, give it a shot.

Prodigy picks up the from the Berman Era. It's geared towards kids but it never feels like it's writing down to them. I honestly preferred Prodigy over Lower Decks.

 

[kkt]

That there is no plan for discharge. Just put in and never to be released.

Why is there no way to manage mental illness to allow them back in to society in some way rather than just locked up?

Again, they have a use but there's also treatment for improve their stability and utilize community resources to give them support in a normal life.

There needs to be a balance rather than just locked up.

I thought there WAS a balance and most of the mentally ill in the Federation could be cured to the point where they could lead a pretty normal life. The ones we saw in the asylums were the very rare cases that could not be cured.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought there WAS a balance and most of the mentally ill in the Federation could be cured to the point where they could lead a pretty normal life. The ones we saw in the asylums were the very rare cases that could not be cured.

I would have to rewatch but it did not feel balanced. Especially given the specialization of study that Kirk had to utilize

 

[Sim]

I like DSC and PIC. PRO as well if I'm in the mood for it. So, as you can probably guess from that, I don't neatly fit into any category. But, in terms of how much I think these series are like the ones from the Berman Era:

The first three seasons of Discovery don't feel like the Berman Era. The fourth season of Discovery wants to be like the Roddenberry Era. Meaning TMP and Early-TNG. The fifth season of Discovery feels a lot more like the Berman Era. Then it ended.

Picard continues the storylines of the Berman Era, but it doesn't actually feel like the Berman Era. Though I'd say the second and third seasons channel the TOS Movies. Especially the third season.

That's a good observation, imo... I also don't think PIC is *that* bad (I'd say the story arcs have some flaws, but I like both old and new characters and they have some great moments), and while it does continue storylines of the Berman era, it has a different style and feeling to it. Maybe you can say PIC is closer to the TNG movies than to the series.

DSC made a point of being different than the shows that came before, at least in the beginning.

As for Burnham crying: The crying itself isn't bad, but that it exemplifies everything that's bad about the way the character is written. It's usually cheap melodrama rather than drama, imo. And the character is totally inconsistent, the writers had no idea who she was supposed to be -- hero or anti-hero, tough and competent know-it-all, or emotionally unstable crybaby compared to whom even Counselor Troi appears like a stable stoicist. Imo.

 

[1001001]

I didn't say it was. YOU were saying I had that problem, which I didn't say.

So you mind telling me why you are putting words in my mouth?

AGAIN????!!!

And you came at me first with this performative drama queen garbage.

Okay, let's all take a step back.

This is not worth getting warnings, so how about we drop this?

Thanks

 

[fireproof78]

for Burnham crying: The crying itself isn't bad, but that it exemplifies everything that's bad about the way the character is written. It's usually cheap melodrama rather than drama, imo. And the character is totally inconsistent, the writers had no idea who she was supposed to be -- hero or anti-hero, tough and competent know-it-all, or emotionally unstable crybaby compared to whom even Counselor Troi appears like a stable stoicist. Imo.

Welcome to trauma response and repression.

 

[Shawnster]

Spock cried on screen in both the TOS era and TOS-film era.

Kirk cried onscreen in the TOS-film era.

I'd expect those weren't the only times in those characters' lives when they cried.

Wait, crying is bad?

Only if Burnham does it.

Only if you tell me why it's an issue at all.

Crying in itself is not the issue. It's the where, when, and why that makes it an issue.

The commanding officer should not show such vulnerability to the crew as a whole, especially not in the middle of a tense situation. The crew draws strength from the captain. The captain is there to inspire the crew to persevere in the face of overwhelming odds. For the captain to show vulnerability and weakness at the wrong time could harm the crew's confidence.

A captain is allowed to be vulnerable in private or in front of friends. During those times they are not subordinates but a support network. Kirk is a great example of this at the end of "Balance of Terror." At the very end he checks on Angela. After they part ways and Kirk steps out into the corridor, for a moment you can see the weight of the emotion and loss. Just for a moment, tough. Once he begins walking, Kirk snaps back into a more formal and commanding posture. He's now visible again. He's now where he can be seen. He puts the emotion away and presents the leadership air his position requires. In private, alone with Angela and immediately after he was more vulnerable. After, in front of the crew he was professional.

There is a time and place for everything. The center seat of the bridge is not the time nor place for the one taking the lead to be vulnerable and crying. Janeway is another example. She was emotional and vulnerable with Tuvok in "Prime Factors" only after Torres was dismissed and she and Tuvok had privacy

 

[Farscape One]

Crying in itself is not the issue. It's the where, when, and why that makes it an issue.

The commanding officer should not show such vulnerability to the crew as a whole, especially not in the middle of a tense situation. The crew draws strength from the captain. The captain is there to inspire the crew to persevere in the face of overwhelming odds. For the captain to show vulnerability and weakness at the wrong time could harm the crew's confidence.

A captain is allowed to be vulnerable in private or in front of friends. During those times they are not subordinates but a support network. Kirk is a great example of this at the end of "Balance of Terror." At the very end he checks on Angela. After they part ways and Kirk steps out into the corridor, for a moment you can see the weight of the emotion and loss. Just for a moment, tough. Once he begins walking, Kirk snaps back into a more formal and commanding posture. He's now visible again. He's now where he can be seen. He puts the emotion away and presents the leadership air his position requires. In private, alone with Angela and immediately after he was more vulnerable. After, in front of the crew he was professional.

There is a time and place for everything. The center seat of the bridge is not the time nor place for the one taking the lead to be vulnerable and crying. Janeway is another example. She was emotional and vulnerable with Tuvok in "Prime Factors" only after Torres was dismissed and she and Tuvok had privacy

Every bit this.

 

[Starflight]

Can't speak for Discovery/Burnham, but that was part of the issue I had at times with Pike in SNW - he freezes, panics, or otherwise becomes overwrought during crises or moments that call for decisive action. And I'm saying this as someone who loves Janeway's early characterisation, where she's very emotionally open and easily wounded and talks to senior staff about her doubts frequently - emotional vulnerability definitely isn't the issue, it's whether or not the character can temper that with command presence.

I think the current writers are very concerned with making the characters appear sympathetic and not too militaristic or authoritarian, a fine goal in itself, but the balance can quickly tip too far to the point where their command authority erodes. It's even more pronounced in SNW because people around Pike typically stay calm (or even take action themselves) whenever he's wavering.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd buy in to this but I'm more evolved about my view in to leadership.

I've seen multiple styles of leaders across multiple vocations. Vulnerable leaders have not been seen as lesser in my experience.

 

[Starflight]

I think it's less about vulnerability - again, Janeway was very emotionally vulnerable and had immense personal warmth in early Voyager - but more about whether or not that emotional depth can be channeled into strength in a way that inspires confidence from the crew (and viewer).

A starship is going to end up in combat and other life-or-death situations where the captain needs to project calm and decisiveness, rather than stare in dismayed shock at the viewscreen while their First Officer repeatedly yells at them to snap out of it.

 

[Set Harth]

I'd buy in to gnus

I bought into Gary.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it's less about vulnerability - again, Janeway was very emotionally vulnerable and had immense personal warmth in early Voyager - but more about whether or not that emotional depth can be channeled into strength in a way that inspires confidence from the crew (and viewer).

A starship is going to end up in combat and other life-or-death situations where the captain needs to project calm and decisiveness, rather than stare in dismayed shock at the viewscreen while their First Officer repeatedly yells at them to snap out of it.

I guess. I don't have the same reaction, but half of that is my theater background knowing that this is a drama first, leadership guidebook second.

 

[Eckauskas]

Took me a minute to decide on my vote there, because I don't like some of the decisions made by Rick Berman, but TNG/DS9/VOY were (for me) the absolute pinnacle of Star Trek.

 

[Angel4576]

I'm not a hater of nuTrek, I watch and appreciate it all. But, as far as my tastes and preferences go I wouldn't swap any of the nuTrek shows for any of the Berman-era show. I watched TNG onwards in the formative years of my life and I'll always hold them dear. I doubt anything will ever be THAT good, to me, ever again.

 

[fireproof78]

Art is always different as we age. Expecting new things to be like things from our formative years is a fool's errand.

 

[cooleddie74]

I absolutely loved and couldn't get enough of Head of the Class when I was in junior high school. Now it's almost completely unfunny to revisit and the only joy I get from the show is the theme music, which will always slap hard.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I absolutely loved and couldn't get enough of Head of the Class when I was in junior high school. Now it's almost completely unfunny to revisit and the only joy I get from the show is the theme music, which will always slap hard.

"Wings" will always be one of my favorite sit-coms, even to this day.