Spoilers Increased Comedy in Star Trek (SFA spoilers)

[Starflight]

I get the sense Star Trek is a bit of a canary in the coalmine for the end of the "prestige era" (yes, this is my hobby-horse topic that I never shut up about).

There's been a lot of interesting pushback recently, especially in gaming - Baldur's Gate 3 brought back classic pre-GoT pulpy fantasy to huge success, the new Tomb Raider stuff all seems to be ignoring Crystal Dynamics' "gritty reboot" stuff entirely and acting like nothing's happened to the series since 1998, and now SNW and SFA are both trying to reinject some optimism and fun into Star Trek, a series which thrived on fun.

SNW and SFA (so far) feel like a kind of awkward half-step between the two worlds, they're still tethered to a lot of prestige-era tropes and story structures but they're desperately signalling that they want to move away from it tonally. It's an interesting time!

 

[fireproof78]

I get the sense Star Trek is a bit of a canary in the coalmine for the end of the "prestige era" (yes, this is my hobby-horse topic that I never shut up about).

There's been a lot of interesting pushback recently, especially in gaming - Baldur's Gate 3 brought back classic pre-GoT pulpy fantasy to huge success, the new Tomb Raider stuff all seems to be ignoring Crystal Dynamics' "gritty reboot" stuff entirely and acting like nothing's happened to the series since 1998, and now SNW and SFA are both trying to reinject some optimism and fun into Star Trek, a series which thrived on fun.

SNW and SFA (so far) feel like a kind of awkward half-step between the two worlds, they're still tethered to a lot of prestige-era tropes and story structures but they're desperately signalling that they want to move away from it tonally. It's an interesting time!

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. The drive to see something lighter often reflects coming through a dark time and able to laugh again.

I never found Discovery or Picard "grim" but it hued too close to the realistic, less of the fun like in TOS, or even TNG (Occasionally). It was closer to TUC or TWOK with the "No Smoking on the Bridge" sign.

Losing the "prestige" tag will be the best thing ever to happen to media in the streaming era.

 

[The Wormhole]

Watching the new Starfleet Academy episodes, it seems clear that Star Trek is continuing to bend towards the goofy side.

SFA is goofy?

Regardless, the Berman era is over. That means we're going to get characters who don't have a stick shoved so far up their ass they can be legally classified a tree. And I'm fine with that.

 

[fireproof78]

SFA is goofy?

Regardless, the Berman era is over. That means we're going to get characters who don't have a stick shoved so far up their ass they can be legally classified a tree. And I'm fine with that.

I believe people feel that professionalism is needed to restore balance to the world and Trek must return to the Berman era to right what has gone wrong with the world

 

[The Wormhole]

You know the kind of character Star Trek could really use? Jack O'Neill.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I believe people feel that professionalism is needed to restore balance to the world and Trek must return to the Berman era to right what has gone wrong with the world

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[I am not Spock]

You know the kind of character Star Trek could really use? Jack O'Neill.

Jett Reno is kind of Trek's version of Jack O'Neill. The sarcasm levels are off the chart!

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Berman era Trek had its problems and needed to evolve. By the end of the '90s it was feeling dated, by the 2000s it was being left behind. But being a serious drama was never the problem, or else BSG wouldn't have gotten so much acclaim by doing 'Voyager, retold by DS9 writers'. The Expanse is often held up as the best space opera of the 2000s and that absolutely takes its story and world seriously.

 

[I am not Spock]

I do recall feeling Disco and Pic were trying too hard to be dark and edgy. Trek is not GOT. Not every show needs to be grim , just because the world at the moment is a bit grim.

SNW, LD, PRO, and SFA all seem to inject a bit more of that fun factor that made me love the Trek universe as a kid. I loved Trek because it looked like a future i wanted to live in.

 

[fireproof78]

I do recall feeling Disco and Pic were trying too hard to be dark and edgy. Trek is not GOT. Not every show needs to be grim , just because the world at the moment is a bit grim.

SNW, LD, PRO, and SFA all seem to inject a bit more of that fun factor that made me love the Trek universe as a kid. I loved Trek because it looked like a future i wanted to live in.

I think the biggest difficulty with Trek right now is that it is too split up. TOS had all of these elements, dark, comedy, tragedy, romance, etc. Now, it's all divided up so they throw the dark in one show, the comedy in another, and slowly it is coming back together.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yeah, Disco and Picard were going in a direction that didn't feel right to me at all. When I think of good dark Trek episodes I think of Kirk having to kill his friend Gary Mitchell or the Enterprise C crew sacrificing themselves to save the future, not actual bleak 'the Federation has lost its way' stories where the folks working at Utopia Planitia don't even get a decent replicator!

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, Disco and Picard were going in a direction that didn't feel right to me at all. When I think of good dark Trek episodes I think of Kirk having to kill his friend Gary Mitchell or the Enterprise C crew sacrificing themselves to save the future, not actual bleak 'the Federation has lost its way' stories where the folks working at Utopia Planitia don't even get a decent replicator!

Yeah! Save those stories for Admiral Ross and Admiral Satie in her follow up investigation on the Dominion War.

 

[Starflight]

The problem with modern Star Trek's "darkness" for me is that it always feels like the writers come at it with the intent of deconstructing and attacking the setting rather than engaging with it for what it actually is. I had the same problem with DS9 from like season 5 onward.

You obviously can deconstruct parts of Star Trek in very interesting ways, especially TNG's slightly absurd interpretation of it (and people underestimate how often TOS/TNG/Voyager themselves prodded at it), but you'd need to actually write a show that feels like it takes place in the Star Trek universe to do that. A lot of these "darker and grittier" attempts feel less like the writers thinking "let's really interrogate the Federation as depicted in TOS/TNG" and more like "we really wish we were writing anything but Star Trek, so here's a generic military sci-fi/psychodrama/war story that fits current popular trends."

 

[I am not Spock]

DS9 deconstructed Trek in a way which really worked for me. 'It's easy to be a saint in paradise'. And managed to have a lot of levity, and humour as well.

That is basically my ideal Trek format. A mix of dark and comic like DS9.

 

[Smear-Gel]

Pike and company are serious.

They are but I'd honestly say that Pike's captaining style is defined by him being more casual than other crews.

The problem with modern Star Trek's "darkness" for me is that it always feels like the writers come at it with the intent of deconstructing and attacking the setting rather than engaging with it for what it actually is. I had the same problem with DS9 from like season 5 onward.

I'll give it to future era Discovery, the darkness of the 32nd Century did feel like it had a purpose, and it was hopeful in its own way, trying to recover from a dark time and bring us back to the ideals we always had. The Federation was never the failure, it's just that everyone was thrust into a dark time that led everyone to dark places and now we're past that and trying to heal.

 

[fireproof78]

They are but I'd honestly say that Pike's captaining style is defined by him being more casual than other crews.

So, I guess that's why I appreciate him. Yes, I understand the role of discipline, but part of being a leader is trusting that your people are accomplishing their jobs. I take as much leadership inspiration from Pike as I do Colonel Potter from MASH:
“And I’m acting like one, staying out of it until I’m needed. It’s all in the timing son, there’s a time to step in and a time to back off. Pull the reins too tight and the horse will buck. You had good people under you. You should've let 'em go through their paces."

Strange how I like leaders who ride horses too.

I'll give it to future era Discovery, the darkness of the 32nd Century did feel like it had a purpose, and it was hopeful in its own way, trying to recover from a dark time and bring us back to the ideals we always had. The Federation was never the failure, it's just that everyone was thrust into a dark time that led everyone to dark places and now we're past that and trying to heal.

Couldn't possibly be because of going through COVID and trying to heal from that...

 

[Starflight]

I'll give it to future era Discovery, the darkness of the 32nd Century did feel like it had a purpose, and it was hopeful in its own way, trying to recover from a dark time and bring us back to the ideals we always had. The Federation was never the failure, it's just that everyone was thrust into a dark time that led everyone to dark places and now we're past that and trying to heal.

I couldn't make it through Discovery's third season but, having watched SFA's first couple episodes, the reconstruction era that DSC set up does seem narratively really interesting, lots of opportunity to write stories where a brighter future is reachable but still fragile.

 

[YouAreDooomed]

So far the show has a decent amount of humour that is somewhat more seamlessly incorporated into the narrative than in SNW (not counting its entire episodes dedicated to comedy); it is far from goofy.

The opening scene is even quite bleak. Yes, I get it, bad times, "triage" but does that prevent lawyers from defending clients? The verdict would probably be the same and perhaps both defendants had refused an advocate, though the mother clearly feels betrayed and would most likely try to appeal the sentence. Did I miss something?

i reckon Paramount saw the positive fan response to Lower Decks, and wanted more of that in the live action shows.

Disco and Pic were pretty grimdark, mostly. After LD, a lot of Trek has become more full of levity.

Nothing about Disco and PIC was grimdark.

Yeah, Disco and Picard were going in a direction that didn't feel right to me at all. When I think of good dark Trek episodes I think of Kirk having to kill his friend Gary Mitchell or the Enterprise C crew sacrificing themselves to save the future, not actual bleak 'the Federation has lost its way' stories where the folks working at Utopia Planitia don't even get a decent replicator!

The Fed. depicted there acts exactly in the same way as it does in every other show, TNG included.
The UP folks complain about a specific type of replicator, does not mean they could not get a replacement.

 

[Miami Vice Admiral]

I think the biggest difficulty with Trek right now is that it is too split up. TOS had all of these elements, dark, comedy, tragedy, romance, etc. Now, it's all divided up so they throw the dark in one show, the comedy in another, and slowly it is coming back together.

I think you hit the nail on the head right here. In another thread someone was saying they thought this was because of the switch to streaming. The idea being that on network tv they have to focus on giving something for everyone, whereas with streaming they can make more niche shows.

 

[Miami Vice Admiral]

Regardless, the Berman era is over. That means we're going to get characters who don't have a stick shoved so far up their ass they can be legally classified a tree. And I'm fine with that.

Maybe that’s my problem because I am a tree type person in real life lol