A few things to discuss about Kes
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If I kiss Kes, will Kes kiss?
EDIT: Or will Kes cuss if I kiss Kes?
EDIT: Or will Kes cuss if I kiss Kes?
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Even a broken arm would have been enough to put her into serious trouble.
I think they should have made it just as an insubordination. That would have given B'Elanna an easier way to redeem herself.
I agree when it comes to how to integrate the Maquis. But an almost deadly attack on a colleague is hard to just dismiss.
Definitely. her " adaption" should have taken at least 4-5 episodes.
I think that she was actually a good character and definitely a splendid engineer. But she shouldn't have been promoted so early after the intital conflicts.
No one eats Quark alive!
But otherwise, it's how he should developed.
I can compare with agent Tim McGee in NCIS wh started out like something of a nerd but developed into a skilled field agent during the seasons.
Maybe he could have done that.
But in that case, he wouldn't have been so unhappy.
I think that Q simply gave him a "worst case scenario" in orde to teach him a lesson.
Yes, we do have a different opinion about that.
Me too!
VOY should have had a two-parter in which Suspiria returned. It would have been a final showdown in which Kes returned, explained that the Voyager crew didn't kill the caretake and then persuaded Suspiria not to destroy the ship.
Suspiria would have given Kes a human lifespan and sent the ship to Earth where they had been welcomed by Starfleet officials, families, relatives and friends.
And maybe a "happy ending" between Chakotay and Janeway!
Nothing wrong with that so you don' thave to apologize. It was actually a good relationship!
A possible scenario actually.
But I hope it's close to deep Space Nine so that Neelix can have his restaurant there.
As for the Skreeans, I would have liked to know what happened to them. Did they adapt to their new homeworld.
Their leader Haneek was a dead ringer to one of my aunts.
No, but definitely the worst.
They actually destroyed Wesley Crusher too by making him look like a spoiled brat in Journey's End and then leaving with the slimy Traveler.
"Oh, sorry Mum and Sorry Captain. I will just do a little trip around the universe with my best buddy here.
Wot? Humans can't travel the way they are doing, Oh, never mind."
And then they obviously killed off Trip Tucker in ENT too for no reason at all which made many fans upset.
That could have been interesting.
If what they did were "choices", they did choose to insult parts of the VOY fanbase on two occasions.
On purpose?
Wouldn't be the only time portion of fandom (not only Star Trek's) that I am a part of was dliberately insulted. And this one was, I think, less bad of this.
I guess so.
Why bring back a character who they had tried to make everyone forget about for three seasons just for the sake of destroying the character?
And why create a relationship which had no chemistry at all when a large group of fans wanted and expected another scenario?
Ray, when someone asks "Would you kiss Kes?", the answer is "Yes!".
That doesn't mean it's purposeful. Writers don't intent to anger audiences
Not so much when the Doc can repair it in 30 seconds. And they needed it to be violent but not life threatening.
Exactly. But hey, you get all chummy with Janeway in a shuttle, and she'll ignore common sense.
Maybe if Harry had taken a swing at Tuvok in "Resolutions", instead of just verbally protesting, he'd have gotten that hollow pip.
I'd say a season for her to properly calm down. Maybe her "Faces" experience had something to do with it.
That would have been amazing. Like Bashir, Nog, and Jake.
It would be interesting to know if Picard had a significant other in the "Tapestry" timeline. He wasn't there long enough to find out. It was just, "I'm not captain so screw this!"
Better than the rewarmed "Timeless" leftovers we got with "Endgame".
Definitely. After Janeway's debrief with thr Starfleet Admiralty, she runs into Chakotay outside the HQ building. They walk off into the sunset holding hands.
They adapted fine, I'm sure. Drailon II was the perfect planet for a colony of farmers. If Haneek hadn't been so hung up on that prophecy (and we know from "Destiny" that such things can be misinterpreted), she would have realized that this was best case scenario for her people. Her obsession with settling on Bajor was probably passed on to her son, resulting in his death.
I personally think "Nightingale" was the worst. But that's me.
It was. She and Tom even managed to save the Monean ocean together, and get away with it. Janeway was NOT happy.
Seems too obvious to be accidental.
Hard to believe professionals were so dumb. But it's hard to believe professionals would sail a steel ship into a field of icebergs on a moonless night at maximum speed, too.
But since I look like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man, I don't think Kes would want a kiss from me.
So as a writer sits down they are thinking, "how can I anger fans?"
In "Nightingale", the writers basically rubbed the fans' noses in the fact that Harry was GOING to be stuck at ensign, and if they didn't like it, they could justSo as a writer sits down they are thinking, "how can I anger fans?"
off.
OkIn "Nightingale", the writers basically rubbed the fans' noses in the fact that Harry was GOING to be stuck at ensign, and if they didn't like it, they could just
I cannot fathom this.
^ There's a lot about the VOY showrunners' decisions I can't fathom. I mean, the other shows made boneheaded decisions too... but VOY just made so many...
So as a writer sits down they are thinking, "how can I anger fans?"
Donald Trump's speech writers.
In "Nightingale", the writers basically rubbed the fans' noses in the fact that Harry was GOING to be stuck at ensign, and if they didn't like it, they could just
Maybe the promotion Track on Neelix's little ship (in the hold) is a faster hop?
Well, they weren't writing for smart people.
Sadly, that conversation could have been rewritten to show legitimate growth on Harry's part.
Actually they shouldn't.
But in those cases I've mentioned I think they did.
If we look at the "Kes case", they kicked her out in the beginning of season 4 and spent almost three seasons doing their best to make the fans forget her. She was hardly mentioned and actually drowned in that exaggerated propaganda about Seven Of Nine, how good it was that she had made the series much better in season 4.
So why all of a sudden bring her back, only to humiliate and destroy the character? That doesn't make sense.
And what a coincident that there had been a letter campaign to have Kes re-instated as a permanent member of the crew again just before they came up with that episode in season 6!
The same with Chakotay/Seven romance in Endgame. If they weren't hiding in a cave with no contact with the world whatsoever, they should have been aware that there was a strong opinion among the fans for a relationship between janeway and Chakotay.
In both cases, they had two options:
1. Fulfil the wishes of the fans.
2. Ignore the wishes of the fans.
They did chose option 3 which was to insult the fans.
But just hitting a fellow officer would cause severe punishment and especially if it was life-threatening which it was in the B'Elanna case.
Exactly! The secret method for a carreer on Voyager.
But first after a mission including a shuttle ride with Janeway.
I can agree on that.
As for Faces, it looks like it had some side effects later on. Didn't one of B'Elanna's forehead ridges disappear during the following years?
I agree on that.
Who knows.
But I have a feeling that this "alternate universe Picard" would have been a miserabel character.
Endgame was horrible!
I totally stopped watching Voyager after that episode in season 6. But the day when my TV station aired Endgame, I started to think about actually watch the episode to see how the old heroes of mine finally came home. One minute before the episode started on TV, I switched on my TV.
Something I actually regret to this day.
Yes, that would have been nice!
That's true. I guess that they actually got a happy life there.
But it would have been interesting with some "follow up" on them in some episode or book.
The same with the Teplans in The Quickening. did they become independent again and could the Federation provide further help to them or did they remain under Dominion opression and only hope that their children would be free from the disease.
I never watched that episode.
It was a long time since I watched that episode so I don't remember the details. Wasn't it all about "Seven saves the day again"?
Exactly what i think too.
A very good comment!
But when it comes to Berman and Braga, I sometimes get the feeling that they could do such things just to annoy people. That they didn't like Garret Wang and have taken out revenge on his character since then when it comes to the "eternal Ensign" curse.
But she did actually kiss Neelix!
Anyway, since I'm planning to start another DS9 relaunch today, i must admit that the more I watch DS9, the more I see the flaws in Voyager.
When I started towatch Voyager a long, long time ago, I thought it was a great series.
Starved after some years with constant TNG re-runs on one channel and disappointed when another channel I had scrapped DS9 after one season, VOY arrived as a relief.
I took an immediate liking to all the main characters which had only happened twice since (NCIS and CSI NY) and I also liked the whole premise for the show.
I found the first season good, the second season excellent and the third quite good too. Then Kes was dumped and it wasn't that fun anymore.
It took time until I finally got the chance to watch all of DS9 from start to finish and I was amazed by the great storytelling in the series. Of course, there are flaws here and there in DS9 too but I must admit that the storytelling and the development of the characters are better than TNG and VOY.
The more I watch DS9, the more flaws I find in Voyager, even in episodes I really like.
So I've often wonderer what would have happened if that stupid channel hadn't scrapped DS9 after only one season, would I have become the VOY fan I was and still is in a way or would VOY have been totally overshadowed by DS9 for me?
Before you chase me away from this forum for not being the 100% VOY fan I've been regarded as
, I must admit that I still like VOY. The series had excellent characters and a great premise andIi still have a certain affection for VOY. But the storytelling was many times mediocre and with annoying flaws.
Think how good VOY could have been with Seven AND Kes! Assuming Kes was properly developed.
Par for the course for VOY's showrunners. You did the quiz, you know what I'm talking about.
Same thing with "Nightingale". It took me about 30m to write an ending that made sense and accommodated the people who wrote in and wondered why the @#*$! Harry was still an ensign. Doing nothing would have been easier still.
With a Starfleet officer who signed up, yes. A conscript, which the Maquis basically were, would need to be given SOME leeway. Maybe confine her to quarters for a few days, followed by a long talk with Chakotay, where he declares that he had wanted to make her chief engineer, but after her assault on Carey that wasn't going to happen. And unless she wanted to get to know the inside of Voyager's brig, she needed to straighten up.
Of course. With warp particles.But first after a mission including a shuttle ride with Janeway.
Given that the point of the episode was growth from bad experiences, yes. But it would have been more interesting if there was more nuance to the issue. Like "The Family Man" but in space.
Ouch.
I just hope the Founders or their lizard minions didn't notice they were recovering. They might have done something worse.
Don't feel deprived. It's basically "let's make Harry look like a dork... again."
You didn't watch that episode, because it doesn't exist. It's "An Ocean Ablaze", an AU fanfiction by me.
In the canonical episode, Tom fails, the ocean is doomed to destruction, and Tom gets busted to ensign and brigged. It pretty much sucks.
They only gave us the first 7 years of it. The later and current Trek crew are responsible for the ensuing 24... and counting.
DS9 had competent showrunners. Including perfectly executed promotions.
This isn't a marriage. You can be polyamorous with your Trek, and appreciate different series for what they do well.Before you chase me away from this forum for not being the 100% VOY fan I've been regarded as
But wasn't the Moneans in The Voyager Conspiracy?
I have memories of Seven saving the day or whatever.
Anyway, I'll get back to the sett of your comments later.
Neither. The Moneans are not present, and Seven is actually the antagonist.
That doesn't prove intent.
I don't agree with this hostile interpretation of the writers.
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