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Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 5

Either way, I wonder about Henry's interest in Holly and if he targeted her specifically because of her relation to Mike and Nancy. I figured right away Mr. Whatsit would be him but it was still wonderfully creepy to watch him lure her into his trap and eventually relocated to a reimagined Creel House. I can't help but wonder if this illusionary house serves a larger purpose, even if I can't think what role it serves. He seemed especially concerned in maintaining the illusion for her sake. Which leads us to...
Jamie Campbell Bower mentioned in "The Vanishing of Holly Wheeler" behind-the-scenes episode that he approached these scenes as if Henry knew that Holly was smart enough to see through his lies so he had to create this elaborate lie for her. Once he was able to convince her, he knew the rest of the kids would follow in line.

This also neatly resolves an issue I had: Why would the other kids know Henry as Mr. Whatsit. I wouldn't expect all of them to read A Wrinkle in Time.

There's way too much exposition for my liking. Lots of scenes where characters seem to get a "hunch" about something, and/or explain things back and forth to one another. All of this feels like it's for the convenience of viewers who are slow on the uptake, as if they started with the expectation that everyone would be watching on a second screen while doing their laundry and not pay attention to nuance. Even some of the emotional scenes suffer from this. Like when Hopper and El have a heart-to-heart at the end of Episode 2. While what's being said may seem new to El, it's not new to us, which makes it a dramatically boring scene.
I can see some of that being any issue but I didn't have any problems with them. None of them felt boring and I was caught up in the moments just as they were.

The interpersonal conflicts set up at the beginning of the season seem boring and artificial compared to the earlier seasons. Steve and Jonathan are still fighting over Nancy because...something. Dustin is pushing everyone away and acting like an ass. Hopper and El aren't getting along well, along with (to a lesser extent) Joyce and Will. While having some level of conflict is understandable, none of this seems based in the understandable foibles of coming-of-age stories like in the earlier seasons, and (so far) feels like cheap interpersonal drama to pad out the runtime.
I completely disagree with all of this.

Steve and Jonathan haven't been around each other in a long time. Jonathan and Nancy were already having issues in the last season, while the chemistry between Nancy and Steve were rekindled while Jonathan was away. The fact that Jonathan and Steve are fighting each other over Nancy felt perfectly natural to me.

Dustin pushed everyone away because of Eddie's traumatic death, coupled by the fact that the public still thinks he murdered Chrissy. On top of all of that, Dustin was being bullied by the surviving members of the basketball team who hold a grudge against Dustin because of what they believe about Eddie. Dustin's behavior is entirely believable because he's both a victim of trauma and bullying. I would be surprised if he didn't push people away and was being an ass.

El and Will both suffered from the same issue: Overprotective parents who are understandably terrified for their children. El is being hunted by the fucking U.S. military and Will is still suffering from his traumatic experiences brought on by Henry. Of course Hopper and Joyce were trying to keep them cooped up as much as possible until El and Will finally pushed back.

But in a show which was formerly so focused on character, it just feels disappointing seeing the characters careen from one plot contrivance to the next.
The show is still very much about the characters first. I'm sorry that you don't see that.

Yeah, Max showing up in the memory world was a big surprise, I knew she would do more than just be in a coma, but that was not how I expected her to show up. If we don't get more details on what she went through later in the season, I would not be at all surprised if we get a book or comic filling in more of it.
We got one for Will years ago (although I wonder how much of it lines up with what we now know about Henry) so I wouldn't be surprised if we got something similar here.

That's an interesting thing to pick up on, I didn't really notice that, but now that you mention it, I can see it now.
I'm glad I was able to point that out to you. Hopefully others picked up on it, too, or see my comment on it because that was one of my favorite aspects of the whole four episodes.

Just finished and holy crap. What a start to this season. I'm still processing what I've just seen, but I think it's safe to say that "The Lost Sister" has gone from the "so-called worst episode to probably the most important episode of the series in so many ways. It made El stronger, and now we have Kali back. I'm really interested to see how that plot develops next month.
I've always argued in strong defense of "The Lost Sister" (including as recently a dozen or so pages ago) and I'm glad my faith in it has finally paid off.
 
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I've always argued in strong defense of "The Lost Sister" (including as recently a dozen or so pages ago) and I'm glad my faith in it has finally paid off.

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another Stranger Things thread but when I did my rewatch, I think the thing I posted here was I'm surprised the episode is as hated as it was because it developed Eleven into what she is now. It helped her close the gate in Season 3, and she is so much more sure of herself and what she could do. I'm just happy the writers didn't listen to the fans and did bring Kali back. That story still had more to give I felt like.
 
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  • There's way too much exposition for my liking. Lots of scenes where characters seem to get a "hunch" about something, and/or explain things back and forth to one another. All of this feels like it's for the convenience of viewers who are slow on the uptake, as if they started with the expectation that everyone would be watching on a second screen while doing their laundry and not pay attention to nuance.
That's not just a Stranger Things issue. It's an industry-wide probelm that I've seen brought up by a lot of writers and directors in recent years. There's a baseline expectation that everything is being written as "second screen content," where providers like Netflix force writers to have characters explain things every few minutes.
 
That's not just a Stranger Things issue. It's an industry-wide probelm that I've seen brought up by a lot of writers and directors in recent years. There's a baseline expectation that everything is being written as "second screen content," where providers like Netflix force writers to have characters explain things every few minutes.

I can't remember where I read or heard this, but apparently, the concept behind this is that so many people are scrolling on their phones while watching shows on streaming services, that they don't fully get what's going on. So doing this expose thingie makes it easier for them to catch up when they realized they missed a bit.
 
There's way too much exposition for my liking. Lots of scenes where characters seem to get a "hunch" about something, and/or explain things back and forth to one another. All of this feels like it's for the convenience of viewers who are slow on the uptake, as if they started with the expectation that everyone would be watching on a second screen while doing their laundry and not pay attention to nuance.

I'd say exposition of the "hunch" variety was necessary, since the characters delivering it--the protagonists more than others--were in the dark about Vecna's plans and the military's actions with the Upside Down, so people would tend to brainstorm/theorize in order to build strategies. From the hospital scene with Mike, Lucas and Nancy, to Mike's plan to remove Derek Turnbow from his home in order to set up the tracking of the Demogorgon, it was all necessary to justify their awareness and actions in the 4th episode. The audience may or may not guess what's happening--or needed to happen, but the characters are caught up in the wave(s) of situations largely beyond their control, hence their need for exposition.


Even some of the emotional scenes suffer from this. Like when Hopper and El have a heart-to-heart at the end of Episode 2. While what's being said may seem new to El, it's not new to us, which makes it a dramatically boring scene.

Isn't seeing El's reaction the point? Sure, that's new to viewers, but she is going through the experience with Hopper, and more than just building on their relationship, it still teases threats which take on a greater dimension when considering Hopper & El's relationship in the then-here & now.


The interpersonal conflicts set up at the beginning of the season seem boring and artificial compared to the earlier seasons. Steve and Jonathan are still fighting over Nancy because...something.

That "something" is (in part) Nancy's reference to how much Steve changed at the end of S4 when talking to Jonathan. Nancy obviously had or has some lingering feelings about the good (and now maturing) side of Steve, and she's not outright rejecting his closeness or behavior toward her in front of her boyfriend, nor does she really deny Robin's "neanderthal" barb (related to Jonathan and Steve's competitive nature around her). That's the "something" in this soft romantic triangle.

Dustin is pushing everyone away and acting like an ass.

I agree with your observation. Some viewers were quick to defend Dustin as going though some sort of PTSD / survivor's guilt, which he's turning into hostility, especially toward his former older idol figure in Steve. As busy as this season will be, I hope Dustin's behavior is not just accepted, but confronted during some down time, and just allowed to pass. Steve certainly did not deserve Dustin's incessant trash-talking and insults.
 
I can't remember where I read or heard this, but apparently, the concept behind this is that so many people are scrolling on their phones while watching shows on streaming services, that they don't fully get what's going on. So doing this expose thingie makes it easier for them to catch up when they realized they missed a bit.
I don't scroll or do anything else when I'm watching stuff like Stranger Things, but I still often need these kind of conversations in scene to help reinforce my understanding of what's been going on. Some of that might be due to my learning disabilities which can sometimes make me a little slow to pick up on things and have little trouble following exactly what's going on with some of the characters sometimes.
 
Only got two episodes in, because my wife wants to watch with me, and isn't down with binging. Regardless, I have major misgivings with the season so far, which seems to be bucking the trend - most of which have to do with the scripting:
  • There's way too much exposition for my liking. Lots of scenes where characters seem to get a "hunch" about something, and/or explain things back and forth to one another. All of this feels like it's for the convenience of viewers who are slow on the uptake, as if they started with the expectation that everyone would be watching on a second screen while doing their laundry and not pay attention to nuance. Even some of the emotional scenes suffer from this. Like when Hopper and El have a heart-to-heart at the end of Episode 2. While what's being said may seem new to El, it's not new to us, which makes it a dramatically boring scene.
  • The interpersonal conflicts set up at the beginning of the season seem boring and artificial compared to the earlier seasons. Steve and Jonathan are still fighting over Nancy because...something. Dustin is pushing everyone away and acting like an ass. Hopper and El aren't getting along well, along with (to a lesser extent) Joyce and Will. While having some level of conflict is understandable, none of this seems based in the understandable foibles of coming-of-age stories like in the earlier seasons, and (so far) feels like cheap interpersonal drama to pad out the runtime.
There's been lots of cool visuals and action scenes, so I can't say I'm not entertained here. But in a show which was formerly so focused on character, it just feels disappointing seeing the characters careen from one plot contrivance to the next. That said, most people who've seen all of the first four seem to like it, so I'm keeping an open mind.
I am really enjoying it but I agree it's mostly just action setpieces. It's kinda got final season Game of Thrones vibes where it's trying to wrap up a lot while also being "epic" in scale.

I'm surprised so many people are proclaiming shock at the various twists too. Whatsit being Vecna, Max writing that note and Kali being behind the door all seemed very obvious to me.
 
Seen all 4 now and damn! It's been a long time since a show hyped me up that much but Stranger Things did it again.

I was anxious that ST would pull a GOT season 8 fiasco ( it's not out of the woods yet) but so far it's just been building and building, moving from one awesome moment to the next to give us this mini season finale and we're only halfway through so to speak.

First big surprise was the re-introduction of Max so to speak. I kinda fell for the Red Herring and thought Vecna lured her to the base to somehow kill her and power up to escape but when Max appeared i was so excited. Sadie Sink is one of the best young actresses of this show and she nailed it again.

Watching episode 4 i was wondering why only a select group of kids and not just any random ones when it hit me - those kids must be special somehow, maybe proto Eleven's, who haven't unlocked their power and i was right ( i think)!! :lol: Will upgrading and unlocking his potential Dragonball Super Sayajin style was awesome!

However i was wondering why he didn't pack up Will or kill him if he didn't need him, it just seemed strange for Vecna to leave this loose end and i hope there's a good reason for it just as i was wondering why the Duffer Brothers chickened out and didn't kill Max last season.

Man, they sure have their story straight and are pulling through and what they came up with so far is so engaging, twisting and exhilarating that i can only give a standing ovation at this point.

Not knowing where this will all lead and how it resolves ( the Duffer's said that all questions will be answered) i am sure fans will still be split into the ones who hate the resolution and some who will love it with religious fervor, i can hardly see any in between. I'm however preparing for mental support for a friend, who tends to really go all in with shows and movies she likes to a degree that worries me sometimes. We have talked much in the lead up to the finale and quite a few times about who will die. I think if Hopper dies it could seriously affect her, no joke.

Man, now the watch begins. Almost an entire month to wait! :(
 
I enjoyed watching the first four episodes of season 5. But every time I see Willi, I can't forget the fact that Noah Schnapp is a Zionist. And the fact that probably half of the cast could be Zionists. Even worse, there's the fact that the previous season was shot in a Nazi prison in Lithuania where mortal torture took place.
There are people boycotting this show on Twitter because of Noah Schnapp.
 
i have this theory about why henry aka vecna aka one aka mr whatsit is after the kids

i think he is gonna give the kids powers like 11 8 and william
That actually makes a lot of sense. You might be onto something there, especially with Kali's return and Will's powering up (and potentially Max and Holly, too).

Ross Duffer has revealed that the Miss Harris, Derek and Holly's teacher, is played big his and Matt's high school drama teacher.
https://ew.com/duffer-brothers-cast-real-high-school-drama-teacher-stranger-things-season-5-11858755
That's so damn awesome. I love that they did that.
 
It was so nice to see Will finally assert himself, both with his mom and against the demogorgons. He's been a victim for too long. I don't think he's got full Eleven/Eight/One style powers though, but just being able to control demogorgons (and presumably other Upside Down/Dimension X creatures) alone is a game changer. It does seem rather strange for Vecna to have left him like that; maybe Will's powers activating was part of his plan all along. I look forward to finding out in a few weeks.

Regardless of how one feels about "The Lost Sister," there was no way they were going to leave the Eight storyline unresolved. As soon as Eleven said the military were holding someone "as powerful as [her]" I knew it had to be Eight. I hope we get to see her and Eleven team up against Vecna/Henry/One.
 
It was so nice to see Will finally assert himself, both with his mom and against the demogorgons. He's been a victim for too long. I don't think he's got full Eleven/Eight/One style powers though, but just being able to control demogorgons (and presumably other Upside Down/Dimension X creatures) alone is a game changer. It does seem rather strange for Vecna to have left him like that; maybe Will's powers activating was part of his plan all along. I look forward to finding out in a few weeks.

Regardless of how one feels about "The Lost Sister," there was no way they were going to leave the Eight storyline unresolved. As soon as Eleven said the military were holding someone "as powerful as [her]" I knew it had to be Eight. I hope we get to see her and Eleven team up against Vecna/Henry/One.

Oh i expect such a final battle to definitely happen - non powered people like the Hawkins Gang and maybe the US military dealing with real life threats like Demogorgons and whatever other Upside Down critters will join in and the supernatural fight of Eleven/Eight/Will and possibly the abducted children, who i assume have latent talents also vs. Vecna/Mindflayer/whatever else.

Man, i still cringe about the scene when they flamed one of the Demogorgons and since he was connected at the time Will feeling his body burn too. Schnapp played that brutally well.
 
Alright, finished Episode 4. My issues remain, though I'm still enjoying myself.

The scripting here is just really rough/on the nose in so many places. The reintroduction of Max is a great example. The flashback scenes with her were very well done, but because for some godawful reason they decided to show and tell, they're accompanied by leaden exposition. I honestly don't know what they were thinking here, because it would have been so much better with just the visuals and a few quick cuts to the end of the conversation with Holly.

I also really dislike how somewhere between Seasons 4 and 5 the gang somehow transformed into a group of superheroes, complete with a secret hideout, and come up with one harebrained plan after another. How is Murray getting the money to equip them with all this shit? How do they not suffer any legal repercussions from drugging and kidnapping the entire Turnbow family? I think that was the point where I basically lost any suspension of disbelief here. It's not like their plans ever fully succeed, but where in earlier seasons we stumble to one unlikely victory against all odds, here across four episodes we saw three different highly contrived plans. Not only are there just too many moving parts, it's also repetitive, because they keep doing it.

Is it the weekend? Are the boys just skipping school? I dunno, all sense of normalcy seems to have sapped out of the show.

I completely disagree with all of this.

My general point across all of these is that in earlier seasons, the interpersonal coming/of age conflicts (like Max getting introduced to the group in Season 2, or Lucas becoming a cool kid in Season 4) built slowly across the season. Here they just introduce a lot of conflict bombs, which they are defusing one by one, which makes it the opposite of dramatic tension.

Steve and Jonathan haven't been around each other in a long time. Jonathan and Nancy were already having issues in the last season, while the chemistry between Nancy and Steve were rekindled while Jonathan was away. The fact that Jonathan and Steve are fighting each other over Nancy felt perfectly natural to me.

It's understandable, but it's boring, because it's a retread of earlier dynamics. Doesn't help that they're giving Jonathan jack shit to do (yet again). It's also worth noting that Nancy isn't really getting any scenes to speak of with either one of them alone, so it's not like you could really argue anything resembling a love triangle is going on right now.

Dustin pushed everyone away because of Eddie's traumatic death, coupled by the fact that the public still thinks he murdered Chrissy. On top of all of that, Dustin was being bullied by the surviving members of the basketball team who hold a grudge against Dustin because of what they believe about Eddie. Dustin's behavior is entirely believable because he's both a victim of trauma and bullying. I would be surprised if he didn't push people away and was being an ass.

Yeah, but what did that stuff amount to after the first episode or two? Dustin's just surly and fighting with Steve, instead of vibing with him as a friend. The bullies have vanished. He's not interacting with his friends to any real degree.

El and Will both suffered from the same issue: Overprotective parents who are understandably terrified for their children. El is being hunted by the fucking U.S. military and Will is still suffering from his traumatic experiences brought on by Henry. Of course Hopper and Joyce were trying to keep them cooped up as much as possible until El and Will finally pushed back.

And they're both solved now - in fact, El and Hopper were right with each other before the end of the second episode. Again, my issue isn't really with the conflict, but how it was structured - as something that festered mid-season, and is then disposed of once it's time for big plot to happen.

I'd say exposition of the "hunch" variety was necessary, since the characters delivering it--the protagonists more than others--were in the dark about Vecna's plans and the military's actions with the Upside Down, so people would tend to brainstorm/theorize in order to build strategies. From the hospital scene with Mike, Lucas and Nancy, to Mike's plan to remove Derek Turnbow from his home in order to set up the tracking of the Demogorgon, it was all necessary to justify their awareness and actions in the 4th episode. The audience may or may not guess what's happening--or needed to happen, but the characters are caught up in the wave(s) of situations largely beyond their control, hence their need for exposition.

One of the former strengths of the show was the mystery, which seems all but gone now. Indeed, I think that horror (which Stranger Things has dabbled in, though it's clearly not that genre alone) is based on the unexplainable, and the more you try and exposit away what's happening, the less scary anything actually is. Which is part of why this season seems to be leaning into action movie instead.
The hospital scene was one of the absolute nadirs of the season for me. Mike and Nancy's mom nearly died, and their thought is to break in, bother her, and pump her for information. Made them seem not like people, but video game NPCs.

Best part of the season by far is seeing Holly explore the weird, sunlit dream world, since that's something genuinely new and slightly off-kilter.

That "something" is (in part) Nancy's reference to how much Steve changed at the end of S4 when talking to Jonathan. Nancy obviously had or has some lingering feelings about the good (and now maturing) side of Steve, and she's not outright rejecting his closeness or behavior toward her in front of her boyfriend, nor does she really deny Robin's "neanderthal" barb (related to Jonathan and Steve's competitive nature around her). That's the "something" in this soft romantic triangle.

I think you need to read really hard into things like Nancy thinking Steve had a better plan to think she's warming to him in any real way this season. They've not had a single scene alone together. Not had any chance to show chemistry. I know it's hard with such a large ensemble cast, but still.
 
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