In relation, it's (at least to me) unrealistic to put SOPRANOS with the older-and-slightly-superior OZ.
Totally fair.
Spock
- Thread starter iggyspock
- Start date
Totally fair.
Depends on what you want from art. If it's engaging characters than TNG fails for me.
Watching Clone Wars recently and there is a maturity and savagery that Trek liked to avoid.
He's a young man exploring relationships. It aren't that hard.
FTFY
^ Two posts worthy of the ultimate award for truth: The 5-Kirk Rating.
The beauty of our existence is that everyone gets to have their own opinion. I like Ethan Speck... wait.. Peck... not Speck... well... Ethan Peck as Spock... anyway. I like him. Obviously. Do I think he's the perfect Spock compared to the others? Not really. Do the writers want him to be? Hardly.
That’s actually part of why Spock is portrayed so differently these days. Writers and directors always try to squeeze every last drop out of a popular or well-established character. Some characters stay in the background forever (looking at you, Kayla), while others get reimagined to explore different aspects of their personalities.
With Peck’s Spock, we’re seeing a much younger version—before the events and experiences that shaped him later in life. In fact, you could make the same argument for Nimoy’s Spock: the Spock we saw in The Original Series is very different from the one we saw in The Motion Picture and beyond. In TMP, we literally see him try to purge all emotion. He did the emotional thing, didn’t like it, and tried to get rid of it.
If we treat Spock like a real person, that kind of emotional purging wouldn't be a personality trait he was born with—it’s the result of a long personal journey. Things had to happen for him to end up at Mount Seleya, asking for a full purge. And then, after his resurrection, we see him gradually come to understand that balance—between logic and emotion—is the key.
By that logic (pun not intended), Spock had to have had a more emotional side earlier in his life. This is also shown clearly in the Kelvin films, when a young Spock is mocked and responds with physical aggression—a clear emotional outburst. Spock has always had emotions. He never didn’t have them. It’s well-established in Star Trek canon that Vulcans feel emotions even more intensely than humans—which is exactly why they suppress them. And on top of that, Spock is half-human.
His relationships with Chapel and La’An can be seen as part of him exploring his human side—specifically, his human sexuality. That makes sense, considering he was betrothed to T’Pring from early childhood, and as far as we know, it was always just T’Pring and no one else until Strange New Worlds. Do I love the idea of him hooking up with “everyone” on the ship? Not really. But does it warrant this level of debate in a fan forum? I don’t think so.
I have my issues with modern Trek, too. It prioritizes visuals over storytelling, and character development often feels shallow (again, looking at you, poor Kayla)—which is somewhat understandable, given that we’re only getting 10 episodes a year now, compared to nearly 50 back in the day.
Research shows that modern audiences—the target demographic—don’t have the same attention spans we once did. Even the way their brains process information is different. Older generations tend to think linearly, which is why reading a book from start to finish feels natural. Younger generations, on the other hand, process information more like a network. They’re incredibly skilled at absorbing large amounts of information from multiple sources at once—but there’s a trade-off: shorter attention spans. That’s a major reason why modern Trek feels different. It's not really made for older fans. We can still appreciate it—but it’s not meant for us.
As someone academically trained in communication science, I could chalk a lot of these differences up to generational shifts. New Trek is aimed at a younger audience—just like old Trek was in its time. That’s why TNG was so hated by TOS fans at first. And let’s be honest, seasons 1 and 2 of TNG were pretty rough. But now, it’s regarded as one of the best iterations of Trek, maybe even the best after TOS.
I’m rambling a bit, but here’s my point: Hold on to what you love about your favorite version of Spock. Time moves on. Things change. Nothing in this shared existence is permanent. We don’t have to like everything that’s put in front of us. Personally, I’ll be skipping Starfleet Academy. Others will love it. And that’s okay. To each their own.
I really dislike Discovery—I’ve made that clear before. I could go on and on about it. But it’s still Star Trek. And this new Ethan Peck version of Spock, whether we like it or not, is our current Spock. A different incarnation.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
(Here’s hoping y’all’s attention span held up through that wall of text. Whoopsies!
)
That’s actually part of why Spock is portrayed so differently these days. Writers and directors always try to squeeze every last drop out of a popular or well-established character. Some characters stay in the background forever (looking at you, Kayla), while others get reimagined to explore different aspects of their personalities.
With Peck’s Spock, we’re seeing a much younger version—before the events and experiences that shaped him later in life. In fact, you could make the same argument for Nimoy’s Spock: the Spock we saw in The Original Series is very different from the one we saw in The Motion Picture and beyond. In TMP, we literally see him try to purge all emotion. He did the emotional thing, didn’t like it, and tried to get rid of it.
If we treat Spock like a real person, that kind of emotional purging wouldn't be a personality trait he was born with—it’s the result of a long personal journey. Things had to happen for him to end up at Mount Seleya, asking for a full purge. And then, after his resurrection, we see him gradually come to understand that balance—between logic and emotion—is the key.
By that logic (pun not intended), Spock had to have had a more emotional side earlier in his life. This is also shown clearly in the Kelvin films, when a young Spock is mocked and responds with physical aggression—a clear emotional outburst. Spock has always had emotions. He never didn’t have them. It’s well-established in Star Trek canon that Vulcans feel emotions even more intensely than humans—which is exactly why they suppress them. And on top of that, Spock is half-human.
His relationships with Chapel and La’An can be seen as part of him exploring his human side—specifically, his human sexuality. That makes sense, considering he was betrothed to T’Pring from early childhood, and as far as we know, it was always just T’Pring and no one else until Strange New Worlds. Do I love the idea of him hooking up with “everyone” on the ship? Not really. But does it warrant this level of debate in a fan forum? I don’t think so.
I have my issues with modern Trek, too. It prioritizes visuals over storytelling, and character development often feels shallow (again, looking at you, poor Kayla)—which is somewhat understandable, given that we’re only getting 10 episodes a year now, compared to nearly 50 back in the day.
Research shows that modern audiences—the target demographic—don’t have the same attention spans we once did. Even the way their brains process information is different. Older generations tend to think linearly, which is why reading a book from start to finish feels natural. Younger generations, on the other hand, process information more like a network. They’re incredibly skilled at absorbing large amounts of information from multiple sources at once—but there’s a trade-off: shorter attention spans. That’s a major reason why modern Trek feels different. It's not really made for older fans. We can still appreciate it—but it’s not meant for us.
As someone academically trained in communication science, I could chalk a lot of these differences up to generational shifts. New Trek is aimed at a younger audience—just like old Trek was in its time. That’s why TNG was so hated by TOS fans at first. And let’s be honest, seasons 1 and 2 of TNG were pretty rough. But now, it’s regarded as one of the best iterations of Trek, maybe even the best after TOS.
I’m rambling a bit, but here’s my point: Hold on to what you love about your favorite version of Spock. Time moves on. Things change. Nothing in this shared existence is permanent. We don’t have to like everything that’s put in front of us. Personally, I’ll be skipping Starfleet Academy. Others will love it. And that’s okay. To each their own.
I really dislike Discovery—I’ve made that clear before. I could go on and on about it. But it’s still Star Trek. And this new Ethan Peck version of Spock, whether we like it or not, is our current Spock. A different incarnation.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
(Here’s hoping y’all’s attention span held up through that wall of text. Whoopsies!
)
In this case, I'll admit five times something is certainly one something.^ Two posts worthy of the ultimate award for truth: The 5-Kirk Rating.
YES TNG is on the same level as this shows in terms of the very best of science fiction TV. from the top of my head some of the best sci fi tv stories ever came from TNG
Measure of a man
all good things
cause and effect
yesterday enterprise
best of both worlds
inner light
lower decks
elementary my dear data
to name a few, this are some of the best sci fiction episodes of all time, the same way we would say the superanos had some of the best mafia episodes all all time and succession has the best family drama episodes. I have not seen OZ.
sopranos and succession are the top of their genres and so is game of thrones. TNG is a top tier in the sci fi genre. that was my equivalent.
Since as this is a spock thread. Unification 1 and 2 from TNG are also top tier episodes. it is very hard to see Peck Spock as the Spock from unification, in fact I would say Quinto Spock would have executed the role better in TNG.
This scene with spock and data is one of the best moments of star trek in writing because Data is a guy who has no emotions and wants one. Spock has spent his time suppressing his emotion, so it was great to see the two characters reflects on how opposite yet similar their lives are.
SNW Spock I would not even say is near this, but Kelvin Spock is kind of close. This may be the best scene of the 2009 film and one of the best Spock scenes in trek in general.
Also people need to study quinto's acting style, he is very natural in the role. I remember in 2009 reviews of the film, most critics said quinto was born to play the role. Never seen that kind of universal praise for Ethan Peck. The Quinto casting was the most praised of the entire kelvin casting, even more than Chris Pine who was great as Kirk.
it is like sometimes Quinto is not even acting, just strolling along. Also Quinto Spock had an elegance to him. the way he walks in this scene with his hand clasp behind his back, is very Vulcan. To be honest I do think both Quinto and Pine would be too good and expensive for streaming star trek.
The thing with SNW Spock is that sometimes you forget he is vulcan. I do not know if it is because the writers of SNW just like to write their male characters very goofy and weaker than the females.
Lastly Quinto Spock is the hottest Spock. Peck Spock is handsome but in a familiar way like I have seen before, which makes sense because the first time I saw Ethan Peck was in CW Gossip Girl and those shows tend to cast very standard familiar looking pretty boys in the roles.
Quinto is more surreal in looks, his handsomeness seems very alien like. He is definitely the most unattainable of all the Spocks. Kelvin Uhura must have been very special to have nailed him but then again. they hired freaking Zoe Saldana to play the role and Zoe is a super star movie actress for a reason and has been a muse to to big time directors like James Cameron JJ Abrams and James Gunn.
Nearly 90 years of time separate him in his life. He would not be the same man. 20 year old men would not recognize 40 year old me.
probably however, I think the writing style is what is separating the two series with their Spock characterization.
TNG : traditional with balanced progressive Sci-Fi series, while not perfect was mostly great and was more realistic in telling a story as it did not have any designous hidden agendas.
SNW: A modern day feminist apology tour to how presumably bad TOS was in handling women and one of their collateral damage is Spoc himself.
I feel this is what is differing with Spock from the 2 series more so than he is a lot older now from SNW to TOS.
....what, pray tell, is that supposed to mean??
Nothing you've posted there is true. None of it is near to being true.
Generally, your posts show very little evidence of your having watched the show with any fair degree of attention. Nor do they display any real familiarity with science fiction as a genre.
okay, but I do know what I have been watching though.
As long as this current shows continues to show women better than men in everything even for a guy like Spock, who is meant to be superior to humans and also continue to have a very disappropriate gender ratio on bridge crew.. it is all the evidence I need to believe in my opinions.
Speaking of Spock as this is his thread, if we go by Luke Skywalker standard in the Sequel trilogy, Luke is perhaps the star wars character who has the same impact and popularity as spock has. both SNW spock and luke have been superfically whipped by very underserving female characters. Kelvin and TOS Spock escaped from this fate and thank goodness they did.
Age will do that.
TOS Spock and TMP Spock are dramatically different, and both involved Roddenberry's input and production and were made just 10 years apart.
That's not a good character. Spock grew in to his humanity.
Hmmm…. Still disagree.
Plus bonus Adam Nimoy in the blooper reel?
it may be means there is unconscious racism bias in the fandom that poc fans like me can easily spot.
Discovery Micheal/Spock and Kelvin Uhura/Spock are less problematic than Spock/Tpring Spock/Chapel in SNW
But for some odd reasons cough cough subtle racism people went hard on them, way too hard on them in a way they are not doing with Spock/Tpring and Spock/Chapel
yes we can agree to disagree but again I have seen many of this shows and I can tell which shows are the best of their genre
remember also that TNG was highly critical acclaimed for his maturity, depth, philosophy, themes and writing and was nominated and won many prestigious tv awards and also continue to rank among the greatest tv shows ever and usually in the top 3-5 science fiction shows of all time in the rankings. it tends to rank very high when they select sci-fi/fantasy show.
you may disagree but the TNG has the metrics to back it up. TOS too as well but I feel TOS does get a place because it is the most iconic.
