Would the Prime Directive apply in this situation?

[Gingerbread Demon]

Planet with a society more ir less the same level we are right now.

Only difference is that they know of other worlds and can communicate with them for things like trade and defense.

However they are yet to invent anything like warp drive so if they were to call out for help and a passing ship hears them does the Prime Directive apply to helping them or not?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Isn't that scenario very similar to the opening S1 ep of SNW?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Isn't that scenario very similar to the opening S1 ep of SNW?

Possibly but I'm not sure if that world actually knows about beings beyond. I thought Pike was their actual first contact

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Possibly but I'm not sure if that world actually knows about beings beyond. I thought Pike was their actual first contact

You're right, Pike was their 'First Contact'.

 

[Admiral Archer]

Hmmmm....that is a tricky situation. If they are aware of other worlds and can communicate for trade and defense, then I would say the Prime Directive doesn't apply. The Prime Directive (as I understand it) is to prevent introducing warp drive to a pre-warp civilization, allowing them to come to that advancement naturally, and on their own. So long as Starfleet follows that rule, I think if the primitive planet asked for help with say, a natural disaster that might be averted with more advanced tech, then absolutely they are under the protection of Starfleet...

...unless the planet is outside of Federation territories, in which it becomes murkier. If the planet were in the Neutral Zone, for example, all bets are off. But if a Federation world (not a member planet, just a planet in Federation space) was threatened, so long as you don't give them a warp drive, and especially if they are aware of "aliens", then I personally feel it might even be Starfleet's obligation to assist.

As an aside, does anyone know off hand the exact verbage of General Order One? That would certainly help with answering the question.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

As an aside, does anyone know off hand the exact verbage of General Order One? That would certainly help with answering the question.

General Order 1

 

[Admiral Archer]

General Order 1

I was about to post the text to that LOL! Let me read over it and I'll respond here in a minute.

 

[UssGlenn]

Seen onscreen in Prodigy, by the way

We have some examples of Prewarp, or assumed prewarp civilizations that other aliens have introduced to the concept of alien life. Starfleet has free reign to interact with them. Capella is an obvious one. Organia was a presumed prewarp, they had Civilian Vulcan traders.

 

[Admiral Archer]

Ooookay, so a LOT to unpack here, with regards to how not to violate the Prime Directive. As someone who has never actually read the fine print to General Order 1, I gotta admit it is not what I expected. The entire point of the Prime Directive appears not to be prevention of total evolutionary contamination, but simply the "cultural contamination" of the native species. That, to me, leaves a LOT of wiggle room for Captains to try to pull all sorts of stunts which could effect the geological or evolutionary status of the planet, AS LONG AS the "Cultural Contamination" is prevented.

In short, the Prime Directive seems like it only protects Cultural Contamination, so as long as the culture of the native species is preserved, the geological or evolutionary factors can be affected.

Now I wanna write a fanfic of a starship captain being court martialled for supposedly violating the prime directive by preventing the extinction of a primitive species, and he makes the case that because he didn't interfere with them culturally, the species was saved and the core essence of the Prime Directive was unbroken.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Now I wanna write a fanfic of a starship captain being court martialled for supposedly violating the prime directive by preventing the extinction of a primitive species, and he makes the case that because he didn't interfere with them culturally, the species was saved and the core essence of the Prime Directive was unbroken.

Isn't that the essence of the episode Pen Pals?

 

[Victoria]

I take the view that there's The Prime Directive.
Then there's several thousand pages of case law detailing how the PD should be interpreted.
Since no Star Fleet captain (or anyone else except the Star Fleet legal branch) could possibly carry that lot round in the heads (or even review it every time a potential PD situation arises), you have the "rule of thumb" that is what happens in the field.

The aim of the PD is to prevent cultural contamination.

A civilisation that has achieved warp travel has the ability to produce any existing Federation technology. In addition, the use of warp technology to travel will bring that civilisation into contact with other cultures - that is, it will contaminate its own culture (and decided what, if any. protections it applies to its own culture). Therefore, whether or not a planet has developed warp flight is a good "rule of thumb" as to whether the PD applies.

Now, in the case cited, the "warp flight" rule does not apply so a Star Fleet captain in the field should apply the PD. On the other hand, the civilisation has already contaiminated itself by contact with other cultures (by the way, how do we know that?) so the legal branch would probably hold that the PD doesn't apply.

 

[The Wormhole]

Not the Federation's Prime Directive, but rather the version used by the Vulcans in the 22nd century, but in Enterprise's Dear Doctor, the aliens in that episode were pre-warp but had contact with other alien races, which T'Pol deemed it acceptable for the NX-01's crew to visit them without concealing their true identity.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Not the Federation's Prime Directive, but rather the version used by the Vulcans in the 22nd century, but in Enterprise's Dear Doctor, the aliens in that episode were pre-warp but had contact with other alien races, which T'Pol deemed it acceptable for the NX-01's crew to visit them without concealing their true identity.

Ooh Dear Doctor is a good episode and I'm not sure who to side with on that one

 

[B.J.]

Ooh Dear Doctor is a good episode and I'm not sure who to side with on that one

I'm on the side of "Evolution doesn't work that way and the writers were stupid."

 

[UssGlenn]

I'm on the side of "Evolution doesn't work that way and the writers were stupid."

I've heard this criticism often. The Valakian disease seems plausible to me, is it being able to predict that the Menk are getting smarter that's the problem?

 

[The Wormhole]

It's the idea of two sentient races co-existing on the same world that people usually complain about in regards to that episode. Granted, that wasn't the first, last, or only example of that trope in the Trek franchise.

 

[FredH]

If they’re already aware of and interacting with others beyond their world, then contact’s already a fait accompli. I’d say the PD no longer applies in that case, except in the sense that it applies to everybody—you still don’t go in and start trying to alter their culture.

 

[BillJ]

Prime Directive is a chicken shit excuse to not help people.

 

[Starflight]

A lot of the interpretation seems to be down to the captain, even in the 24th century where the PD has become cruel dogma.

Pike, Kirk, and Janeway would help a planet like the one described in the OP without hesitation. They might try to help covertly first, but if it's life or death, they'll go down and do what's necessary to prevent loss of life. Actually, Janeway encounters a lot of planets exactly like this in the DQ, and tends to just go down and introduce herself as a representative of the Federation, so she probably wouldn't even consider a covert approach necessary.

Picard, meanwhile... on a good day, he might vaguely consider helping discretely from orbit, and if that proves impossible, leave them to die. On a bad day... he'd strut around the ready room sneering at Beverly or Troi or Geordi for even daring to suggest a humanitarian mission, then fly off to his next adventure, assured of his own moral integrity. The planet would have to hope a Romulan, Cardassian, or even just a Federation civilian ship (remember "Angel One"?) comes by and agrees to help, which I'm guessing happens quite a lot after Picard's refused to get involved.

 

[Unicron]

Ooookay, so a LOT to unpack here, with regards to how not to violate the Prime Directive. As someone who has never actually read the fine print to General Order 1, I gotta admit it is not what I expected. The entire point of the Prime Directive appears not to be prevention of total evolutionary contamination, but simply the "cultural contamination" of the native species. That, to me, leaves a LOT of wiggle room for Captains to try to pull all sorts of stunts which could effect the geological or evolutionary status of the planet, AS LONG AS the "Cultural Contamination" is prevented.

In short, the Prime Directive seems like it only protects Cultural Contamination, so as long as the culture of the native species is preserved, the geological or evolutionary factors can be affected.

Now I wanna write a fanfic of a starship captain being court martialled for supposedly violating the prime directive by preventing the extinction of a primitive species, and he makes the case that because he didn't interfere with them culturally, the species was saved and the core essence of the Prime Directive was unbroken.

I find the concept of the Prime Directive interesting, but one of those Trek elements that has never been explained or utilized all that well. The FASA Trek RPG has a situation where the first captain to be court-martialed for breaking the PD arguably acted for good reasons within his interpretation of the restrictions, and was still seen by the Federation Council to have acted improperly regardless.

He came across a planet where two major factions were engaged in a nuclear level war, similar to Earth's world wars, and one side had just launched a massive missile strike at the other. He chose to destroy the missiles without apparently otherwise revealing his ship or crew to the factions, thereby sparing the target group. The Council, though sympathetic to his intent, nonetheless removed him from command on the grounds that the missiles could have been targeting a Hitler or Khan like dictator, and that destroying them might have unwittingly made things worse aside from the risk of discovery.

I find this argument a bit mixed myself, because there's no indication given that anyone in the Federation actually knew enough cultural history to make such a context valid for the ruling. I also don't buy the argument that even if a dictator was being targeted, it would be worse to spare those innocents who might be killed alongside them just to ensure they died.

I think the Council was more intent on ensuring that Starfleet commanders not feel inclined to make decisions that seem beneficial but which might have unforeseen problems, and I get that. But I also think it's a highly variable circumstance and we often see captains do it for plot resolution.