The General Knight Rider thread.

[Christopher]

I remember there was one show back in either the later '90s or early '00s that really took this to ridiculous extremes, but I can't remember what it was now.

Fringe had so many cases coincidentally relevant to the characters' lives that they actually lampshaded it in one episode as some kind of cosmic synergy or something.

It was also a staple of Lucifer. That show never explicitly tried to justify it, but since that was a series where God literally existed, I kind of figured that God was influencing events to expose Lucifer to situations that would affect his personal growth.

 

[DonIago]

I remember there was one show back in either the later '90s or early '00s that really took this to ridiculous extremes, but I can't remember what it was now.

Star Trek: The Next Generation?

 

[Christopher]

Star Trek: The Next Generation?

No, because that was an episodic show, not the kind of thing we're talking about where there's a serialized season-long arc, with the episodic cases of the week always coincidentally resonating with where the characters happen to be at that point in the arc.

 

[Skipper]

A little recap of the first episode (I skimmed it last night!)

The bad guys are a group of industrial spies (there are no more than 5 or 6 in total, but the important ones are 3). Their modus operandi is to infiltrate a company and then steal its secrets.

Michael Long (a cop) had been ordered to investigate, and he infiltrated the company targeted by this gang as a security guard. He and his partner caught the gang red-handed while stealing some secrets from (from the wiki) Consolidated Chemical.

But his partner is killed by the bad guys. Michael chases them into the desert. There he is betrayed by Tanya Walker



He is left for dead, but is found by the Foundation who gives him a new face and identity and informs him that the gang is reusing the same modus operandi with a company (Comtron) in a place called "Silicon Valley".

(What I'm going to say is obviously a nerd's overanalysis, for an absolutely dumb series that doesn't even deserve this mental effort.)

As much as Michael should be grateful to the Foundation for saving his life, what the Foundation did actually harmed the investigation!

Michael Long was an eyewitness to the exchange of stolen information. He witnessed his own attempted murder. His testimony alone would have sent the entire gang to jail. But the Foundation prevented him from doing so by making the world believe that Michael Long was dead.

And the bad guys aren't the Mafia, or the mob, or Spectre. They're a handful of industrial spies. Michael Long didn't need any special protection from them.

Honestly, judging from the first episode alone, there was absolutely no practical reason for the identity change. Sure, it gave the Foundation the ability to have an agent without a past, convenient for field investigations. But nothing in the episode's plot "forced" the Foundation to let the world believe Michael Long was dead. In fact, Michael Knight was forced to start his investigation from scratch when the gang targeted Comtron to steal its secrets.

 

[Skipper]

Another overanalysis of a show that was meant to be simply lighthearted fun where every problem could be solved with a turbo boost.

In your average episode, after the bad guys were caught and the final credits rolled, what was supposed to happen? Was Michael Knight supposed to testify at the trial, answering questions that could have been genuinely embarrassing for him? And would they have called KITT to the stand? And what about all the illegally obtained evidences? Because Michael used to search for them with a bit of breaking and entering.

Not to mention all the destruction of private property our heroes committed, I assume in the name of a Greater Good.

I think a good lawyer would have been able to get the bad guys released and Michael indicted. It's amazing how many laws he broke for someone who worked for something called the "Foundation for Law and Government."

I think in later series they realized they could handwave this to a certain extent, because in both TKR and KR2008 they made the relationship between the protagonists and government agencies explicit.

 

[Christopher]

And what about all the illegally obtained evidences? Because Michael used to search for them with a bit of breaking and entering.

Not to mention all the destruction of private property our heroes committed, I assume in the name of a Greater Good.

I think a good lawyer would have been able to get the bad guys released and Michael indicted. It's amazing how many laws he broke for someone who worked for something called the "Foundation for Law and Government."

I am getting tired of the fictional trope of protagonists casually breaking and entering, or illegally hacking people's files, in order to get information they need to advance the plot. It's a storytelling shortcut to avoid business like getting warrants that would slow down the narrative, but the casual contempt for law, privacy, and property rights gets irritating, along with the ignored issue of how the illegally obtained evidence could damage a court case.

I just finished a rewatch of 1994's RoboCop: The Series for an upcoming review series on my Patreon, and it struck me that there was a logic problem. RoboCop's third inviolable Prime Directive is "Uphold the law," and the series made him a stickler for the letter of the law in most respects. But he had a friend, Diana, who had been murdered so that her brain could be used to power the MetroNet system that intelligently controlled every electronic and digital system in Delta City, and RoboCop often clandestinely solicited her help to break into people's computer files or obtain surveillance video or illegally wiretap their video phones, things that Directive 3 should have made him incapable of asking her to do. Now, RoboCop is a dystopian future where corporations rule all, so it could be that the laws protecting electronic privacy are weak. And we did see at least once in the show (and in RoboCop 3, though that's a different continuity) that he can override Directive 3 in order to fulfill his first two directives, "Serve the public trust" and "Protect the innocent" (sort of like the hierarchy of Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics). But it was a struggle for him to make that choice, so it doesn't account for the casualness with which he asked Diana to hack records and spy on people. Also, Diana's existence was a secret known only to Robo and the OCP Chairman (and her imprisoned murderers), so how could any of the evidence she gathered be used in court to convict the bad guys without exposing her secret?

 

[B.J.]

Random thought, but every time I hit a set of warning strips before an intersection (like here), it reminds me of the KR theme song.

 

[JD]

I think a good lawyer would have been able to get the bad guys released and Michael indicted. It's amazing how many laws he broke for someone who worked for something called the "Foundation for Law and Government."

That name's always bothered me, it just sounds very ominous, like the bad guys in a conspiracy thriller or the name that the evil government in a V for Vendetta or 1984 style story would give their secret police who hunt down and kill or imprison their enemies.

 

[Skipper]

That name's always bothered me, it just sounds very ominous, like the bad guys in a conspiracy thriller or the name that the evil government in a V for Vendetta or 1984 style story would give their secret police who hunt down and kill or imprison their enemies.

Yes, it's as if they were saying, "Normal democratic means and law enforcement are incapable of managing crime. We'll take care of it, and we'll decide which laws we'll follow or not follow to get rid of the bad guys. Let's privatize justice."

I mean, who did FLAG answer to? Just their conscience?

 

[Qonundrum]

Yes, it's as if they were saying, "Normal democratic means and law enforcement are incapable of managing crime. We'll take care of it

KR's premise is surprisingly similar in ways to the premise of 1966's Batman, only given gravitas instead of intentional campiness, and from Milton Knight's foundation instead of Commissioner Gourdbrain and Chief Dumbo D Doorstop always phoning it in, and they did by season 3... (Well, for the most part... would you believe 80% of KR doesn't feel as dumb? 75%? 70% and with a free granola bar?) Anyway, KITT's mobile garage ranks up there with Bruce Wayne's big Batpole leading to a big Batcave with big Bat****-dumb storylines, but it all sure does look cool and the trio of KR's leads really sell the premise and let you buy into their world, which can't be ours due to all the funky fresh features KITT had.

Also, if the pilot to the show didn't sell, then would he have been Michael Short? (Middle initial C...)

 

[Christopher]

That name's always bothered me, it just sounds very ominous, like the bad guys in a conspiracy thriller or the name that the evil government in a V for Vendetta or 1984 style story would give their secret police who hunt down and kill or imprison their enemies.

To me, it only suggests (to paraphrase Agents of SHIELD) that somebody really wanted their name to spell "FLAG." It's not like anybody put any deep thought into any of this. I mean, it was a Glen Larson show.

KR's premise is surprisingly similar in ways to the premise of 1966's Batman, only given gravitas instead of intentional campiness

"Gravitas?" In Knight Rider? Are you kidding? It was just playing its comic-booky action-hero tropes straight rather than knowingly making fun of their absurdity, which if anything gave it less weight, not more.

 

[Owain Taggart]

KR's premise is surprisingly similar in ways to the premise of 1966's Batman

I actually find it quite similar to Robocop, in that both protagonists are severely injured and given new bodies to fight crime.

 

[Qonundrum]

"Gravitas?" In Knight Rider? Are you kidding? It was just playing its comic-booky action-hero tropes straight rather than knowingly making fun of their absurdity, which if anything gave it less weight, not more.

Great point/clarification, thanks! I conflated "gravitas" with "playing the tropes straight".

IMHO, it's just too ghastly to contemplate, if KR went down the road of B66 and became so self-aware and making fun of its own absurdities so overtly in its stories. But B66 season 1 did hold its own... shame later seasons fell apart and became too obtuse...

 

[Christopher]

I actually find it quite similar to Robocop, in that both protagonists are severely injured and given new bodies to fight crime.

Except the RoboCop analogy would work better if Michael had been rebuilt into the actual car. Also, Alex Murphy wasn't just severely injured -- he was killed outright, most of his right brain graphically blown apart on camera. What survived of his brain was only meant to be used to supplement RoboCop's cybernetic systems, and nobody expected any of his personal memories or consciousness to survive. Although the 1988 animated series retconned the movie so that Murphy was only severely injured rather than killed (he could eat normal food and even catch a cold), and the 2014 reboot took that approach as well.

The fate of Hudson (or "Heidi") Leick's character in the Knight Rider 2010 pilot movie -- murdered with her consciousness preserved and installed in a (car's) computer to become the holographic ally of the lead character -- is rather similar to the role of Diana Powers/NeuroBrain in RoboCop: The Series, a story element that Robo's creators Edward Neumeier & Michael Miner recycled for the show from their rejected movie sequel script The Corporate Wars. Except that Diana was more like Murphy/RoboCop in that her actual brain was kept alive and incorporated into the computer, while Leick's character was just a digital copy of the murdered woman's mind, scanned into a computer just before she died. Which is more like the fate of the Marie Lacasse character in Frank Miller's original RoboCop 3 script (the very loose basis for Jill Hennessy's Marie Lazarus in the final film).

IMHO, it's almost too ghastly to contemplate, if KR went down the road of B66 and became so self-aware and making fun of its own absurdities so overtly in its stories.

"Knightboat! The crime-solving boat!" "There's always a canal."

Dangerboat (Alan Tudyk) in the second live-action The Tick series was basically a campy pastiche of KITT. For some reason, it's always boats.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Except the RoboCop analogy would work better if Michael had been rebuilt into the actual car. Also, Alex Murphy wasn't just severely injured -- he was killed outright, most of his right brain graphically blown apart on camera.

Hmm, true. I'll concede those points, but I do still feel it has more in common with Robocop in terms of how the concept works.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Hero boats: Making our canals, or an inlets, or a fjords safe again.




EDIT:

If they're gonna keep making "The Simpsons" for forever and a day, I got an episode idea:

With the constant revival of old TV series, Homer hears "Knight Boat" is coming back, and insists on getting a part on the revival pilot.

Perfect chance to have the very spry 96 year-old Stu Phillips score it. He said over the Film Score Monthly board in my thread for the possible KR film being developed, he's available.

Will turn 96 on Sept. 9th. I'll be be 98 when this gets scored. My calendar is open. Maybe I could pill a Hans Zimmer and hire a small army to do the legwork.LOL

SP

 

[Christopher]

Hmm, true. I'll concede those points, but I do still feel it has more in common with Robocop in terms of how the concept works.

I don't see it. RoboCop was a satire of violent cop movies and of corporate amorality, set in a dystopian future. Knight Rider was just a show about a guy and his car fighting bad guys. And Michael Knight still has his original personality and memories. RoboCop only retains fragments of who Alex Murphy was.

If anything, KR is much closer in concept to The Lone Ranger. John Reid was a Texas Ranger who was the last survivor of an ambush, and he adopted the anonymous identity of the Lone Ranger to bring the killers and other criminals to justice, alongside his loyal partner Tonto, who nursed him back to health after he was left for dead. Although in this case the role of Tonto is split between Wilton Knight and KITT, and KITT is an amalgam of Tonto and Silver, the Ranger's horse. But it's obvious from the name Knight Rider that there's a Western influence on the show, as well as a knight-on-horseback influence.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The Lone Ranger inference is interesting, that's for sure. I never quite looked at it that way before, but it does have all the elements. I wonder if KR's creator was thinking of that when coming up with the concept, ie modernizing the Lone Ranger as a science-fiction with a talking car. It certainly took off in terms of merchandising.

 

[tharpdevenport]

I'm pretty sure what people creating TV shows did back then was pick a concept (hero saves people, for example), then built it around ideas and sometimes around actors. Other times, I have learned over time, they like a certain actor or actress, and build a show for that person ("Dollhouse" for example).

The idea was to make pilots and hope one sells, because the vast majority did not. You want to get a series going, try to make money, and if you have higher aspirations, get your foot in the door with a TV series. They weren't trying to re-invent the wheel for the most part. If one type of series was popular, others swooped in to try and make knock-offs to ride the success (multiple "Miami Vice" knocks offs, for example).

 

[Owain Taggart]

Well, it doesn't hurt to have it structured on something that's already been a huge cultural success.