Of course, not originally. In "Space Seed," Khan and his followers were all mostly the same age, which makes sense. But in TWOK, they are all miraculously far younger than Khan.
Khan’s followers — Why loyalty & no initiative?
- Thread starter FredH
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I think Greg Cox's version of events, where Khan's followers in TWOK are the children of his original followers, makes the most sense and helps to explain why they'd be even more loyal than Khan's original followers. It also would explain the change from Joaquin to Joachim. But I'll freely admit that the film neglects to provide any explanation and it's very possible TPTB didn't (or couldn't be bothered to) think it through.
I think the term supermen is just fine.
If you find the construction is somehow sexist, just say, superhumans.
It reflects how they thought of themselves, and how their followers thought of them, too.
If you find the construction is somehow sexist, just say, superhumans.
It reflects how they thought of themselves, and how their followers thought of them, too.
I've never understood why people get so hung up on Khan recognizing Chekov. Yes, they aren't shown meeting in the episode itself (for obvious real-world reasons), but it requires a minimum of suspension of disbelief, IMO, to say that Chekov was serving on the ship and encountered Khan and we just didn't see it because he wasn't bridge crew or such.
Of all the holes one can poke in TWOK, to me that one's perhaps the most easily rationalized.
Of all the holes one can poke in TWOK, to me that one's perhaps the most easily rationalized.
It's assumed that all this jockeying took place back on Earth and is now a settled issue.
The switch from selective breeding to genetic engineering is necessary because Khan being bred the old fashioned way is an endorsement that eugenics works. And really good too.
"They were supermen in a sense. Stronger, braver, certainly more ambitious, more daring." -- James T Kirk.
Whatever we call them, they all followed Khan without question in both Space Seed and Wrath of Khan. They may have had internal dynamic (ala Harulf Ericsson) but didn't show it much to outsiders.
Did those constraints involve magically bring able to beat a superman when the plot requires it?Eh. Kirk was unknowingly constrained by the standards of 1960s television.
That was more of an undocumented feature.
The film is all over the place. I need to listen to the audio drama to see if it can explain why a planet just randomly exploded, or why no one in the federation noticed that fact, or why Reliant.. a freaking SCIENCE vessel.. couldn't count the number of planets and look at the past charts and go "hey.. something's fishy"
Space might be big but we can see across vast distances. Orbital computations should be relatively easy to count and note any variables or changes rather than just assuming.
Exactly.. considering the amount of computing power and sensors at hand it should have been automatic. And Khan was right.. someone should have checked on their progress. The minute they landed there, it was an inhabited system.
IIRC the novelization said that the only planetary survey data Reliant had access to was from a probe sent sometime earlier; Our Heroes noted the inconsistencies but just assumed the probe data was unreliable.
I seem to recall there's also some suggestion that the Reliant crew have become a bit slipshod due to the amount of time they've been on a mission that seems to be going nowhere fast.
I seem to recall there's also some suggestion that the Reliant crew have become a bit slipshod due to the amount of time they've been on a mission that seems to be going nowhere fast.
If a planet explodes we can see it. Debris fields behave a certain way due to gravity of the primary solar body. The Enterprise logs should be easily available for comparison.
Yes, it is needed as an inciting event for the film.
And ...it makes the Reliant crew look inept.
Yes, it is needed as an inciting event for the film.
And ...it makes the Reliant crew look inept.
Doesn't this presuppose that the Enterprise logs were available to the Reliant crew?
It strikes me as significantly odd that the mapping data at least would not be available.
There seems to have been at least some level of concealment involved since nobody (including any automated options) warned Reliant to expect the possibility of running into an augment colony within the system. Given how traumatized the Federation appears to have been by the Eugenics Wars, it seems strange that they wouldn't have provided an ample warning, unless they instead went the route of trying to bury all knowledge regarding the events of "Space Seed".
Like I said, it makes someone at Starfleet look very inept. If not Terrell, then Chekov (who was supposedly there), and if not them then Starfleet Command for not eliminating the system as a possibility.
The weirdest thing to me is that you've got a whole big group of people down on the planet, plus their ship and all their belongings, and apparently some indigenous life as well (the Ceti eel), and yet all Reliant's sensors are able to detect is "a minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner" that they think may be nothing.
The film is good, but the entire setup defies any and all logic.
The film is good, but the entire setup defies any and all logic.
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