Bashir learned about it at the Academy.
So I finally watched the S31 movie...
- Thread starter Charles Phipps
- Start date
like, I suspect, many others, I watched this this week as I had just bought back into P+ to watch SNW.
I expected worse.
It was still bad.
But if the Fuzz thing, and transformer suit man, had instead been some more conventional characters, and if there was bit less yeo-fu, it could have been decent. Also reframe the Georgiou origin story to be less like the Hunger Games, and I think it could have been a decent movie, even pilot.
I expected worse.
It was still bad.
But if the Fuzz thing, and transformer suit man, had instead been some more conventional characters, and if there was bit less yeo-fu, it could have been decent. Also reframe the Georgiou origin story to be less like the Hunger Games, and I think it could have been a decent movie, even pilot.
Still haven’t watched this. Strangely tempted, but I haven’t watched half of S5 of LDS, S5 of DSC or even started S3 of SNW yet. There’s only enough room for so much Star Trek in my life. Crazy I know.
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Yaay, you saw it!!
Purposefully removing the setting from the normal milieu is what they set out to do. Despite that, all the main plot points revolve around very concrete Star Trek lore. It is very clearly Star Trek, right down the the moral Starfleet oversight, to the ending where it's clear they're continuing on the mission set forth in the Federation charter.
I think he meant common knowledge to the audience watching the movie.
They had a chance to do a movie with Yeoh. They blew it due to that continuing obsession with doing something Section 31 related.
They could have went prequel and just done a solid movie based on her time in starfleet. )Maybe had Doug Jones involved. They worked well together). Have it be a Shenzhou era film. We got very little about her time on Shenzou save for some cool books.
A what-if: If they had gotten Jason Isaacs on board, imagine if they'd made "Drastic Measures" into a movie with a young Jim Kirk on Tarsus IV) Even if Isaacs had not wanted to be involved, the novel could have been reworked into the script. It was excellent. Yeoh would have been able to act with nuance, something she's fantastic at. Instead we got this steaming turd of a caper which pretty much also guarantees Yeoh will never visit the franchise again.
They could have went prequel and just done a solid movie based on her time in starfleet. )Maybe had Doug Jones involved. They worked well together). Have it be a Shenzhou era film. We got very little about her time on Shenzou save for some cool books.
A what-if: If they had gotten Jason Isaacs on board, imagine if they'd made "Drastic Measures" into a movie with a young Jim Kirk on Tarsus IV) Even if Isaacs had not wanted to be involved, the novel could have been reworked into the script. It was excellent. Yeoh would have been able to act with nuance, something she's fantastic at. Instead we got this steaming turd of a caper which pretty much also guarantees Yeoh will never visit the franchise again.
That, and revisiting a character that’s more cardboard than a FedEx shipping box.
Yes, using Prime Georgiou rather than Emperor Georgiou would have been a far better idea. But for some weird reason both Yeoh and Kurtzman have hardons for the latter, despite her having no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
That’s not true. Yeoh loved the movie, because Kurtzman made it specifically for her. She loves Section 31 and the Emperor and thought this movie was going to be a hit. If they had her play the character again in that S31 setting, she’d jump at the chance. Or at least that was the impression she’s given in interviews.
And I'd watch it day 1. But I'm entirely aware there's a 98% chance that ship has sailed and I'm at peace with my eternal headcanon.
I’m totally fine that she’s enthusiastic about wanting to play the character again. it possible that she will, as will the rest of the cast, since this film is like the first season of DIS in that it’s unpopular, but had viewers.
But the movie was a fumble in many ways, to the point that a lot of Trek episodes and movies once consider bad do not look so bad anymore. If there was ever another Section 31 movie, it would have to be different in so many way to not repeat the many flaws that undermined it.
- Killing off Melle and Zeph reminded me of DIS killing off Culber in that they killed off likeable characters, or at least characters with the potential to be likeable. While not the brightest character, Zeph could have added something if given the time, as his character was unique. And as for Melle, they did absolutely nothing with her before her demise. If they needed to bump the film up to an R rating so that Melle could be more properly presented as a Deltan in that environment with no oath of celibacy applicable, then they should have gone there. If the produces want characters that die quickly with minimal backstory, that’s what redshirts are for.
- Fuzz being an Irish stereotype. And then wanting to continue with Wisp with a different stereotype. This character is not like Saru. Even if one does not like Saru, he still has value, and is iconic in his own right. I’m not sure what Fuzz/Wisp bring to the table but being a golem for an alien. And no one even liked Picard becoming an android, to the point that the next two season on that show basically ignored it. The idea needs to be binned, and replaced with nothing.
- Alok does not have much going for him besides being an Augment. He’s not even a Klingon Augment either, to make him stand out from other Augment depictions. Now, maybe he is, and he just provided a cover story considering Georgiou’s backstory. But there’s nothing to indicate that being the case.
- Quasi is interesting, but they killed off Melle so we never really see that relationship amount to anything. And the team followed Georgiou’s plan instead of their own to get the Godsend, so what was the point of his character after the first 30 minutes?
- Garrett is a blank slate and could easily be replaced by generic character. And then they decide to try and make her to be space Harley Quinn near the end with that “chaos is my friends with benefits” line. I have nothing against Harley Quinn, but I do not understand why I’d be friends with this iteration of Rachel Garrett if she existed. Its mystifying because there’s a built-in characterization of sorts already to work with: Garrett should feel caught in the middle of a world transitioning from DIS/TOS values of drawing out phasers to TNG diplomacy, and not being able to be like mythical figures from the TOS era - April, Cornwall, Pike, Una and Kirk - who she’s read about and wants to emulate. That would make her more sympathetic to being an outcast within Starfleet and needing a family in Section 31. That could have also resonated with Gen Zers that fell like they are caught in flux in a changing world.
- The film had the wrong antagonists; instead of San and Fuzz, the film should have stuck with Dada Noe and have it relate to peace between the Federation and the Klingon, like the Federation turning a blind eye to Klingon atrocities within the Empire and allowing them to gain Federation membership. Maybe even have Melle be the one that turns instead of Fuzz, and let it be a grievance held by Deltans. Considering that Dada Noe is not dead, and there is a chance Melle was hit with a transporter beam instead of a disrupter beam, maybe they could still do that story. But that the film got it wrong from the get-go, along with making it top heavy for antagonists, is part of the reason I have no faith that they would have done anything good with Lorca if he was the antagonist, and why I’m glad they left him out of the film.
- I don’t mind the Andorian gag and would not be bothered if it was a recurring gag in successive Section 31 films if they were made. But there was silliness like the mole scene that was a waste of time, and no one dying in the Godsend explosion, which undermined the film. That’s not what S31 needed to be. The scenes with Worf and Raffi in PIC S3 were what S31 needed to be. Not just the whole following breadcrumbs in the underworld vibe, but that they were about something and built up the relationship between the characters.
- It missed so much. The ships. The monster maroons. Scalosian tech for the Section 31 agents to quickly appear and disappear as a callback to both TOS and DS9. Even when considering that it's set on the fringes of Federation space, It did not feel like they were in the Star Trek universe.
Georgiou needs to split off from the rest of S31 and let them do their own thing and flourish without her, since every cast she is with she overshadows them. Let Ash Tyler lead the team instead with Alok as his lieutenant. Who knows, maybe a temporally displaced La’an or Ortegas or M’Benga might find a home in Section 31, since they all seem like they would fit in. I’d even argue that Georgiou would make for a better antagonist for S31 than protagonist, considering she’s willing to commit genocide on a planetary scale. And out out of desperation like Section with the Changeling virus.
I’d just rather Emperor Georgiou time travels back to 2256 and switches places with Captain Georgiou when she’s killed by T’Kuvma and just lay the Emperor Georgiou’s character to rest, while Captain Georgiou gets a second chance at life leading Section 31 in the 24th century. That’s the most redemptive thing she could do. IDC how they get they get there, if she’s chasing Lorca through the Guardian of Forever or some other method, but I think they need to move on from glorifying Space Hitler.
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